Recent Topics
ISP Speeds?
by 2010_FX4
7 minutes 44 seconds ago
New Toro personal pace with the OHV, any advice?
by SOHCman
Today at 12:46 PM
Honda Oil filter 15410-MFJ-D01 opened up.
by mrsilv04
Today at 12:18 PM
Motorcraft FL400S - No Problems (No Pics)
by C4Dave
Today at 12:18 PM
Oil Suggestion for 1988 GMC Sierra beater truck
by dx92beater
Today at 12:11 PM
Tire dressing stained my driveway!
by SwedishRider
Today at 11:47 AM
CJ-4 oil for gas engine??
by lawman1909
Today at 10:33 AM
Remington to replace all R51 models.
by whip
Today at 10:10 AM
Convection oven cooking tips
by sciphi
Today at 10:08 AM
FREE filters!! anyone interested??
by Texan4Life
Today at 09:39 AM
Mileage Reimbursement or Company Car?
by bcossa2001
Today at 09:32 AM
ATP AT-205
by mjk
Today at 09:32 AM
Newest Members
grudd61, always2slow, MrGreen, Nextlevel, evantful
50771 Registered Users
Who's Online
89 registered (87sammy, 2010_FX4, 2KBMW, 05LGTLtd, 123Saab, 2cool, 12 invisible), 2155 Guests and 247 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
50771 Members
64 Forums
216828 Topics
3413078 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Topic Options
#3211762 - 12/09/13 09:55 PM Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil?
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12346
Loc: Chicago, IL
I am getting my car's dual-clutch fluid changed this Friday. The factory fill will have around 52k on the clock; it is Pentosin FFL-4, and is actually very similar to a Dexron/Mercon ATF, but with GL-4 protection.

Is there any value in getting the TBN and/or TAN measured?

FWIW, BMW classifies it as a lifetime fluid (yeah right).
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

Top
#3211771 - 12/09/13 10:04 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
chubbs1 Offline


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4574
Loc: Merritt Island FL, USA
It would be nice to see how this "lifetime" fluid is holding up and TBN/TAN would be one of the only reasonable ways to check that. It is your money so it is easy for me to say. You are changing it anyway so it doesnt really benefit you to fork out the extra money.
_________________________
'12 Charger SXT
QSUD 5w30 OEM filter

'12 Charger SXT
Edge FST EP 5w30 OEM (Mine;)

'11 Hyundai Sonata GLS
QSUD 5w20 OEM Filter


Top
#3211792 - 12/09/13 10:30 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
Raybo Offline


Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 52
Loc: Clearwater ,Florida
Huge value. TAN is very important to see how hard the trans is on the fluid. Tell's you exactly how long that type fluid should stay in the trans before it gets acidic.

I like and have used many times:

wearcheck.com

There the big boys in the UOA business and TAN is always included in there UOA. $25.

Top
#3211857 - 12/09/13 11:50 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
daves87rs Offline


Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 13266
Loc: Michigan
Would be good to learn....
_________________________
“The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing.”

Top
#3212005 - 12/10/13 07:23 AM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 13180
Loc: Upstate NY
You should get TAN for non engine lubricants.

Its included with tests from Polaris that are around $18.50 when you buy 10.
_________________________
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0 - PP & M1
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins - Rotella T6 & M1
Amsoil ATF in both vehicles & Magnefine filter.

Top
#3212011 - 12/10/13 07:27 AM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
btanchors Offline


Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 541
Loc: Herndon, VA
TAN would be very valuable, but TBN not valuable. The reason is that a transmission is a "closed" environment. In an engine, one of the oil's jobs is to neutralize the acids that form as a result of combustion gasses "leaking" past piston rings into the oil. In a transmission or differential, the lubricant does not have this function as nothing "leaks in" that causes acid to form - so the lubricant doesn't need to neutralize acids.

However, if a lubricant is stressed due to being overheated, its acid level will rise. This is what TAN is designed to indicate.

So - you want TAN, but not TBN. TBN would be a waste of money.

Others more knowledgeable than I - did I get this right? I think I am on target but I defer to the experts out there...

Top
#3213567 - 12/11/13 03:37 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14055
Loc: Midwest
Originally Posted By: dparm
I am getting my car's dual-clutch fluid changed this Friday. The factory fill will have around 52k on the clock; it is Pentosin FFL-4, and is actually very similar to a Dexron/Mercon ATF, but with GL-4 protection.

Is there any value in getting the TBN and/or TAN measured?

FWIW, BMW classifies it as a lifetime fluid (yeah right).


Being it is factory fluid left in that long, I doubt you are going to discover anything useful, except once you see the analysis, you may want to change the OCI.

For FF fluids, I would want to compare the UOA against the VOA in terms of changes in viscosity.
_________________________
I told a chemistry joke....there was no reaction. smile

Top
#3213727 - 12/11/13 06:46 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: MolaKule]
martinq Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 1023
Loc: ON, Canada
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Being it is factory fluid left in that long, I doubt you are going to discover anything useful, except once you see the analysis, you may want to change the OCI.

For FF fluids, I would want to compare the UOA against the VOA in terms of changes in viscosity.

+1 and +1

Can you get a VOA while you're at it?

Top
#3214335 - 12/12/13 10:08 AM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: martinq]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12346
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Being it is factory fluid left in that long, I doubt you are going to discover anything useful, except once you see the analysis, you may want to change the OCI.

For FF fluids, I would want to compare the UOA against the VOA in terms of changes in viscosity.

+1 and +1

Can you get a VOA while you're at it?


I don't have a bottle of FFL-4. It's expensive stuff ($25/L+). I'll dig around and see if anyone has already done a VOA.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

Top
#3215937 - 12/13/13 08:57 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
bruce381 Offline


Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 3324
Loc: Millbrae, CA
TAN and TBN can be used in ATF but you must have a base line to work from

Top