Recent Topics
Does lower ZDDP protect less or for shorter time?
by OceanRuns
36 minutes 13 seconds ago
Can quality of fresh motor oil be judged by smell?
by contrarian
46 minutes 27 seconds ago
EIS Master Cylinder ?
by edge10
Today at 10:44 AM
Home A/C repaiman sniffing refrigerant for smell
by Mr Nice
Today at 10:36 AM
Valve Cover Off - 07 Kia Optima 2.4l
by bigblumer
Today at 10:31 AM
Purolator is still listening- Engineering report
by HangFire
Today at 10:08 AM
ammo design and performance criteria
by dnewton3
Today at 08:31 AM
Looking into sporty / grand tourer cars
by thr_wedge
Today at 08:26 AM
Bottled water on track to outsell soda by 2017
by Mr Nice
Today at 08:21 AM
dodge caliber - motor oil
by foresthawk
Today at 08:09 AM
When's the best time of year to buy a Chevy Truck?
by horse123
Today at 08:01 AM
Pennzoil euro av
by JHogan
Today at 07:57 AM
Newest Members
Isentropic, retroguy, Ozchemist, Imad, LockportHenry
55172 Registered Users
Who's Online
86 registered (3Phase, 4wheeldog, 3311, 00Max00, 77GrandPrix, 97f150, 6 invisible), 1731 Guests and 159 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
55172 Members
66 Forums
236604 Topics
3812098 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG
Topic Options
#3211762 - 12/09/13 09:55 PM Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil?
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12612
Loc: Chicago, IL
I am getting my car's dual-clutch fluid changed this Friday. The factory fill will have around 52k on the clock; it is Pentosin FFL-4, and is actually very similar to a Dexron/Mercon ATF, but with GL-4 protection.

Is there any value in getting the TBN and/or TAN measured?

FWIW, BMW classifies it as a lifetime fluid (yeah right).
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

Top
#3211771 - 12/09/13 10:04 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
chubbs1 Offline


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4574
Loc: Merritt Island FL, USA
It would be nice to see how this "lifetime" fluid is holding up and TBN/TAN would be one of the only reasonable ways to check that. It is your money so it is easy for me to say. You are changing it anyway so it doesnt really benefit you to fork out the extra money.
_________________________
'12 Charger SXT
QSUD 5w30 OEM filter

'12 Charger SXT
Edge FST EP 5w30 OEM (Mine;)

'11 Hyundai Sonata GLS
QSUD 5w20 OEM Filter


Top
#3211792 - 12/09/13 10:30 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
Raybo Offline


Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 58
Loc: Clearwater ,Florida
Huge value. TAN is very important to see how hard the trans is on the fluid. Tell's you exactly how long that type fluid should stay in the trans before it gets acidic.

I like and have used many times:

wearcheck.com

There the big boys in the UOA business and TAN is always included in there UOA. $25.

Top
#3211857 - 12/09/13 11:50 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
daves87rs Offline


Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 14644
Loc: Michigan
Would be good to learn....
_________________________
“Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

Top
#3212005 - 12/10/13 07:23 AM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 15594
Loc: Upstate NY
You should get TAN for non engine lubricants.

Its included with tests from Polaris that are around $18.50 when you buy 10.
_________________________
2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT PP & M1
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0 - PP & M1
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins - Rotella T6 & M1


Top
#3212011 - 12/10/13 07:27 AM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
btanchors Offline


Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 633
Loc: Herndon, VA
TAN would be very valuable, but TBN not valuable. The reason is that a transmission is a "closed" environment. In an engine, one of the oil's jobs is to neutralize the acids that form as a result of combustion gasses "leaking" past piston rings into the oil. In a transmission or differential, the lubricant does not have this function as nothing "leaks in" that causes acid to form - so the lubricant doesn't need to neutralize acids.

However, if a lubricant is stressed due to being overheated, its acid level will rise. This is what TAN is designed to indicate.

So - you want TAN, but not TBN. TBN would be a waste of money.

Others more knowledgeable than I - did I get this right? I think I am on target but I defer to the experts out there...

Top
#3213567 - 12/11/13 03:37 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 15872
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: dparm
I am getting my car's dual-clutch fluid changed this Friday. The factory fill will have around 52k on the clock; it is Pentosin FFL-4, and is actually very similar to a Dexron/Mercon ATF, but with GL-4 protection.

Is there any value in getting the TBN and/or TAN measured?

FWIW, BMW classifies it as a lifetime fluid (yeah right).


Being it is factory fluid left in that long, I doubt you are going to discover anything useful, except once you see the analysis, you may want to change the OCI.

For FF fluids, I would want to compare the UOA against the VOA in terms of changes in viscosity.
_________________________
PC is Fascism pretending to be manners! smile

Top
#3213727 - 12/11/13 06:46 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: MolaKule]
martinq Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 1031
Loc: ON, Canada
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Being it is factory fluid left in that long, I doubt you are going to discover anything useful, except once you see the analysis, you may want to change the OCI.

For FF fluids, I would want to compare the UOA against the VOA in terms of changes in viscosity.

+1 and +1

Can you get a VOA while you're at it?

Top
#3214335 - 12/12/13 10:08 AM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: martinq]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12612
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Being it is factory fluid left in that long, I doubt you are going to discover anything useful, except once you see the analysis, you may want to change the OCI.

For FF fluids, I would want to compare the UOA against the VOA in terms of changes in viscosity.

+1 and +1

Can you get a VOA while you're at it?


I don't have a bottle of FFL-4. It's expensive stuff ($25/L+). I'll dig around and see if anyone has already done a VOA.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

Top
#3215937 - 12/13/13 08:57 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
bruce381 Offline


Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 3327
Loc: Millbrae, CA
TAN and TBN can be used in ATF but you must have a base line to work from

Top