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#3210971 - 12/09/13 06:51 AM JP-8 in a diesel
Groundhog Offline


Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 4
Loc: Wadmalaw island SC
I have learned that JP-8 can be converted for use in a Diesel engine if certain esters are added. My question is what products contain these esters? Diethyl Azelate, Diethly adipate, or bis2 ethyl- hexyl sebacate. These esters lower the wear scar value below what ULS diesel's value is. There are Some other esters as well but these stuck out at me. Any ideas?

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#3210997 - 12/09/13 07:34 AM Re: JP-8 in a diesel [Re: Groundhog]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 35060
Loc: New Jersey
IIRC they are part of the fuel additive package. JP-8 adds can be highly toxic.

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#3211210 - 12/09/13 12:31 PM Re: JP-8 in a diesel [Re: Groundhog]
SrDriver Offline


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 2525
Loc: Southeast Alabama
All I know is when the switch was made from JP-5 to JP-8 in aircraft engines problems were many.

Unless you have access to free JP-8 I can't see any benefit in trying to use it in any diesel engine unless the engine is multi-fuel rated then the is no need in adding anything in that application.

Some military multi-fuel engines come to mind.

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#3211500 - 12/09/13 05:04 PM Re: JP-8 in a diesel [Re: Groundhog]
Rat407 Offline


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 809
Loc: North Carolina
I ran JP-8 in my old 91 jetta diesel with no issues. Didn't run it much, just a tank full here and there so no long term effects where noted.

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#3211679 - 12/09/13 08:17 PM Re: JP-8 in a diesel [Re: SrDriver]
Groundhog Offline


Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 4
Loc: Wadmalaw island SC
I did pretty much get it free, had to haul it out . I've wondered about adding 2 stroke oil like Klotz or Castrol?

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#3212848 - 12/10/13 08:50 PM Re: JP-8 in a diesel [Re: Groundhog]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 10045
Loc: OH
How much of this fuel did you snag?
What's wrong wih it, since normally nobody is looking to give away jet fuel?
It would probably be pretty safe to mix this with regular ULSD.
What kind of a diesel would you use it in?
I'd bet it would be just fine in an old mechanical injection engine and maybe not as great in a modern common rail one.
_________________________
12 Accord LX 30K TGMO 0W-20
09 Forester 67K PU 5W-30
02 Accord 134K GOil 5W-30
01 Focus ZX3 101K Meijer Syn 5W-20
95 BMW 318iC 150K Defy 10W-40

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#3214247 - 12/12/13 08:34 AM Re: JP-8 in a diesel [Re: Groundhog]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4384
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
I would run it in the old IDI diesels mixed with 50:1 two-stroke oil. The military 6.2 diesel injection pumps have hardened internal components to stand up to the "dry" fuel, I've heard of airline mechs running pumped out Jet-A with an extra fuel/water separator to remove the excess water.
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4 48RE SRW, 93 GMC C3500 6.2 diesel, 89 F-450 7.3 IDI, 98 Cherokee 4.0, 05 Scion xB, 12 Ford E-250 4.6

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#3214719 - 12/12/13 05:05 PM Re: JP-8 in a diesel [Re: Groundhog]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 15048
Loc: Iowegia
Originally Posted By: Groundhog
I have learned that JP-8 can be converted for use in a Diesel engine if certain esters are added. My question is what products contain these esters? Diethyl Azelate, Diethly adipate, or bis2 ethyl- hexyl sebacate. These esters lower the wear scar value below what ULS diesel's value is. There are Some other esters as well but these stuck out at me. Any ideas?


Methyl soyate.
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Since it was so cold, I'm spending a cozy evening at home, staring at a beautiful fire and wishing it wasn't inside my microwave. Oops! smile

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#3216160 - 12/14/13 03:08 AM Re: JP-8 in a diesel [Re: Groundhog]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 28042
Loc: a prisoner island
I'd use Rapeseed Ethyl Ester personally Mola...can make either in a coke bottle 'though.

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#3217601 - 12/15/13 05:26 PM Re: JP-8 in a diesel [Re: Shannow]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 15048
Loc: Iowegia
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I'd use Rapeseed Ethyl Ester personally Mola...can make either in a coke bottle 'though.


Either Rapeseed Ethyl Ester or Methyl Soyate would be good additives. In fact, just about any veggy methyl or ethyl ester would work.

Up here in the northern hemishpere, soybean esters seem to dominate as an additive for the medium distillates.

FOr JP-8, I think about 15% by volume of a veggy ester would be sufficient.


Edited by MolaKule (12/15/13 05:26 PM)
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Since it was so cold, I'm spending a cozy evening at home, staring at a beautiful fire and wishing it wasn't inside my microwave. Oops! smile

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#3218051 - 12/16/13 03:03 AM Re: JP-8 in a diesel [Re: Groundhog]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 28042
Loc: a prisoner island
Sorry Mola, was trying (unsuccessfully) to be humerous...

Interesting to see who's lobby groups get what through, as your biodiesel specs pretty much make soy oil the only primary contender...ours make conola the preferred feedstock. Use anything else, and there's something that needs modifying to get it right.

I made a quart in a bottle at work some many moons ago while presenting at a meeting on sustainability...simple stuff, but it made an impact.

Premium diesel usually has 2% RME in it around here.

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#3220974 - 12/18/13 07:27 PM Re: JP-8 in a diesel [Re: fdcg27]
Groundhog Offline


Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 4
Loc: Wadmalaw island SC
Well about 1k gals. It was used at an engine plant and was considered waste. So being on a farm and not highway use I just had to haul it away. Now I'm all over the road with what to add.
As far as engines I've got everything from a single cyl diesel 8000 hrs pump to an 7430 John Deere.
JD is CR but my others are not
Maybe a dumb question but isn't rapeseed oil same as canola?

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#3221016 - 12/18/13 08:17 PM Re: JP-8 in a diesel [Re: Groundhog]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 28042
Loc: a prisoner island
Sort of...Conola is a modified rapeseed, and is typically the "R" in Australian biodiesel.

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#3224343 - 12/22/13 07:35 AM Re: JP-8 in a diesel [Re: Groundhog]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 10045
Loc: OH
A thousand gallons for the cost of hauling it off?
Great score!
It might be best not to use it in the CR Deere, but I'd bet that the mechanical IDI engines wouldn't much care.
To Mola and Shannow, what would be a good commercial source for a methyl or ethyl ester to blend with this fuel?
Canola or soybean oil off the grocer's shelf?
_________________________
12 Accord LX 30K TGMO 0W-20
09 Forester 67K PU 5W-30
02 Accord 134K GOil 5W-30
01 Focus ZX3 101K Meijer Syn 5W-20
95 BMW 318iC 150K Defy 10W-40

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#3224463 - 12/22/13 09:16 AM Re: JP-8 in a diesel [Re: Groundhog]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 28042
Loc: a prisoner island
Anywhere that sells 100% biodiesel...as long as it's pure and clean.

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