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#3205539 - 12/03/13 10:10 PM Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX
Aurora09 Offline


Registered: 12/31/11
Posts: 63
Loc: Saint Clair, MI USA
Hi everyone,

After cleaning the throttle body and running some seafoam through the intake of my friends '05 Chevy Cobalt 2.2 I decided it was time to do some cleaning in the crankcase. The oil fill cap has white residue and the fill hole blows air out, rather than in (suction) as it should. I am thinking by using a cleaner in the oil it should smooth out the idle and restore suction to the oil fill hole. The car also needs a fuel filter as it continues to stall out even after a full can of seafoam thru the intake. This car does not have a pcv valve proper, so I can't change that like I wanted to. I am curious what would be better, seafoam or mmo in the crankcase? Maybe even Auto-RX if I can find where it is sold. My plan is to fully warm up the engine, then change the oil and filter (cheapo) add some seafoam or mmo to the crankcase then have her take it to her normal oil change place once it's dirty again for the "real" oil change that will be driven on. I'd like your opinions on seafoam vs MMO vs auto-rx and possibly even a good brand of oil to use in quick cleaning situations. I just don't want to run the cleaner with the filthy oil thats in there now in case it jams the filter up.
_________________________
96 Oldsmobile Aurora, 123,000 miles, Valvoline Next-Gen Maxlife High Mileage Blend w/Purolator Pure-One Oil Filter.

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#3205586 - 12/03/13 11:12 PM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: Aurora09]
chubbs1 Offline


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4574
Loc: Merritt Island FL, USA
Take it slow with Supertech conventional, MMO and a Puro Classic. Do short OCI's (2k). Cut the first filter open if you can and see what is inside. Do this 2 times and change over to whatever oil your friend plans to go with.
_________________________
'12 Charger SXT
QSUD 5w30 OEM filter

'12 Charger SXT
Edge FST EP 5w30 OEM (Mine;)

'11 Hyundai Sonata GLS
QSUD 5w20 OEM Filter


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#3205591 - 12/03/13 11:25 PM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: Aurora09]
TrevorS Offline


Registered: 07/14/13
Posts: 1281
Loc: California
This is what Labnerd, a poster over on f150online forums says. He works in tribology r&d in Texas:

MMO: Marvel Mystery oil is a mostly pale oil base meaning it's a light 20 visc. oil. The additives as shown in spectroscopy aren't much. That's not to say there isn't anything else there, just doesn't show up in analysis. If you run it as an injector cleaner in an ULSD diesel, expect damage to be done to the engine from sulfurs in the mix. The same sulfurs will be in your gas engine only the combustion process will turn some of it into sulfuric acid. Your oils base (mostly calcium) should handle the extra acids but it's not something I would use on a regular basis. The best injector cleaners and carbon removers are Stoddard Solvent based. This is the base for Techron and BG-44 cleaners. And here's another issue, what about the cats? We already know cat life is short with an engine that burns oil. So you add oil (MMO) to the gas and not expect shorter cat life? Use at your own risk but I'd use some of the proven cleaners/ carbon removers that are cat friendly before trying something that right off says it will damage an expensive piece of emissions equipment.

Seafoam: By their MSDS, it is around 80% non-detergent oil and 20% rubbing alcohol. As Porky would say "That's all folks". The alcohol will strip the seals and damage is likely. This is one of the fluids that is very popular that really is not so bueno. I wouldn't suggest using it at all- in the tank, in the oil, in the intake. If you have a carbon problem, use the chems that are recommended by the manufacturer- Techron. It's safe, just put it in the gas before changing the oil and let it do the job. If you want to clean up an engine inside, put a PAO basestock oil in for the next oil change- like Mobil One. The esters will clean the sludge and varnish and it is perfectly safe. Stuffing this fluid down the intake you are taking a chance at cracking pistons, shortening the life of the O2 sensor, and I have seen several engines hydrolock from too much- too quick. It's your engine- your money.

Auto RX: What you described could be an infinite amount of issues. Once you have eliminated the obvious mechanicals, I would suggest first running a can of BG44/Techron thru the injection system. You could have injectors leaking down and a good cleaning may solve the issue. These are Stoddard Solvent based which is the best for cleaning injectors. After that, note AFTER, then I would suggest a dose of Auto-Rx. It is a lanolin ester and is a fabulous but gentle cleaner- nothing more. It can solve leaking valve seals, leaking main bearing seals, and stuck ring packs which the Tritons are prone to.

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#3205610 - 12/04/13 12:07 AM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: Aurora09]
Quest Offline


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 6405
Loc: beaver land EH?
for Normally Aspirated gasoline engine, it's normal to have blowby strong enough to "push" or "pulse" air out of oil filler hole with the cap removed.

This is called blowby, and virtually all internal-combustion engine will have some. Some maybe more, some maybe less, but regardless: they all have blowby.

You should not focus on restoring the "sucking" instead of "blowing" part of blowby (for this is not how things work in NA engines)....the PCV valve + intake manifold vacuum will take care of that blowby gas with the oil filler cap on.

Instead: focus on your priority RE: what needs to be done on that engine. adding solvents, pale oil of some kind, stoddard solvent, etc. will not do much unless you have a very specific agenda in mind and you know what specific problem areas you are going after.

So, before you proceed, may I ask you what is the goal you trying to achieve? If it's just some internal oil-related cleaning, use better motor oil (syn, conventional, etc. so long as they are ILSAC-GF5/API SN varieties, then they should be good enough to keep the engine very clean for the longest possible service life).


Q.
_________________________
"Internet discussion boards act as echo chambers for conspiracy dittoheads" A.Allen

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#3205664 - 12/04/13 04:02 AM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: Quest]
ChrisD46 Offline


Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 1204
Loc: GA.
I subscribe to using MMO or TC-W3 at a slightly reduced than recommended rate to combat E10 corrosion to the internal fuel system and as a UCL . MMO at 50% reduction (640:1) or TC-W3 at 50% redcution (1280:1) should be safe and do far more good than harm . Do we yet know long term effects of E10 to a fuel system ?

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#3205723 - 12/04/13 07:13 AM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: Aurora09]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 13520
Loc: Upstate NY
The OP has not really told us much to go on, however Techron in the gas and Auto-Rx (order it) in the oil may help.

You need to do a compression test, then tell us anything like burning oil. Then we can provide further suggestions.

Leave the MMO and Seafoam on the shelf.
_________________________
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0 - PP & M1
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins - Rotella T6 & M1
Amsoil ATF in both vehicles & Magnefine filter.

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#3205739 - 12/04/13 07:39 AM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: chubbs1]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21301
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Take it slow with Supertech conventional, MMO and a Puro Classic. Do short OCI's (2k). Cut the first filter open if you can and see what is inside. Do this 2 times and change over to whatever oil your friend plans to go with.


I like this approach, maybe on the second OCI I'd stretch it out to 3,000 miles.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3205782 - 12/04/13 08:25 AM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: TrevorS]
badtlc Online   content


Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 3769
Loc: KC
I get what most of that guy says but did he just call a PAO an ester?
_________________________
2007 Ford Escape XLS 2.3L ATX Kendall 5w-20, MC Fl910s, 110k+
2012 Mazda 3i Skyactiv PP 5W-20, 6spd MTX Redline MTL, 35k+

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#3205820 - 12/04/13 09:15 AM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: Quest]
Aurora09 Offline


Registered: 12/31/11
Posts: 63
Loc: Saint Clair, MI USA
On a good running engine you should feel a suction at the oil fill hole. I was taught that was an easy way of checking a used car. All the cars I've owned have provided suction at the fill hole, and I've always done 3,000 mile OCI only extended the interval if I was working out of town at the time. Never had any white stuff on the cap either.

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#3205889 - 12/04/13 10:15 AM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: Aurora09]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9935
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Check the PCV system. How does it look down the fill hole? Does it even need much cleaning?

How many miles on this engine? Any CEL?

My first check after a visible look over and PCV would be to check for codes, put a vacuum gauge on the engine and do a compression test.
Find out what your dealing with before looking for a solution.

2cents
_________________________
ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

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#3206173 - 12/04/13 02:28 PM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: Aurora09]
Quest Offline


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 6405
Loc: beaver land EH?
+1 with what Trav said.

Q.
_________________________
"Internet discussion boards act as echo chambers for conspiracy dittoheads" A.Allen

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#3206308 - 12/04/13 04:26 PM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: TrevorS]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7354
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
This is what Labnerd, a poster over on f150online forums says. He works in tribology r&d in Texas:

MMO: Marvel Mystery oil is a mostly pale oil base meaning it's a light 20 visc. oil. The additives as shown in spectroscopy aren't much. That's not to say there isn't anything else there, just doesn't show up in analysis. If you run it as an injector cleaner in an ULSD diesel, expect damage to be done to the engine from sulfurs in the mix. The same sulfurs will be in your gas engine only the combustion process will turn some of it into sulfuric acid. Your oils base (mostly calcium) should handle the extra acids but it's not something I would use on a regular basis. The best injector cleaners and carbon removers are Stoddard Solvent based. This is the base for Techron and BG-44 cleaners. And here's another issue, what about the cats? We already know cat life is short with an engine that burns oil. So you add oil (MMO) to the gas and not expect shorter cat life? Use at your own risk but I'd use some of the proven cleaners/ carbon removers that are cat friendly before trying something that right off says it will damage an expensive piece of emissions equipment.

Seafoam: By their MSDS, it is around 80% non-detergent oil and 20% rubbing alcohol. As Porky would say "That's all folks". The alcohol will strip the seals and damage is likely. This is one of the fluids that is very popular that really is not so bueno. I wouldn't suggest using it at all- in the tank, in the oil, in the intake. If you have a carbon problem, use the chems that are recommended by the manufacturer- Techron. It's safe, just put it in the gas before changing the oil and let it do the job. If you want to clean up an engine inside, put a PAO basestock oil in for the next oil change- like Mobil One. The esters will clean the sludge and varnish and it is perfectly safe. Stuffing this fluid down the intake you are taking a chance at cracking pistons, shortening the life of the O2 sensor, and I have seen several engines hydrolock from too much- too quick. It's your engine- your money.

Auto RX: What you described could be an infinite amount of issues. Once you have eliminated the obvious mechanicals, I would suggest first running a can of BG44/Techron thru the injection system. You could have injectors leaking down and a good cleaning may solve the issue. These are Stoddard Solvent based which is the best for cleaning injectors. After that, note AFTER, then I would suggest a dose of Auto-Rx. It is a lanolin ester and is a fabulous but gentle cleaner- nothing more. It can solve leaking valve seals, leaking main bearing seals, and stuck ring packs which the Tritons are prone to.




Mobil 1 is pao?
The guy is a tribologist but makes this type of comment. Kinda puts in doubt anything else he writes.

As far as cleaning up a crankcase mmo and seafoam don't need short runs. Leave them in as suggested for 2000-3000 miles.
I've been using mmo for vacuum line intake clean ups.
My charger has an inverse oiler attached to a vacuum line using mmo in the tank. No problems to report thus far.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3206354 - 12/04/13 05:02 PM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: Aurora09]
Aurora09 Offline


Registered: 12/31/11
Posts: 63
Loc: Saint Clair, MI USA
It has 120,000 miles roughly and there is a check engine light on as far as she knows for random engine misfire, Autozone's standard diagnosis. I looked around on the cobalt forums and some people said they resolved the stalling/rough idle issue by replacing the air and fuel filters. I did the air filter, cleaned the throttle body, and did two seafoam inductions spaced about an hour apart. The first being more effective than the second. If the fuel filter doesn't help, that's where I stop. I'm not real concerned with the blow-by, as this engine 2.2 doesn't actually have a PCV valve, just a tube from the valve cover body to the intake side.
_________________________
96 Oldsmobile Aurora, 123,000 miles, Valvoline Next-Gen Maxlife High Mileage Blend w/Purolator Pure-One Oil Filter.

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#3206397 - 12/04/13 05:33 PM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: Clevy]
TrevorS Offline


Registered: 07/14/13
Posts: 1281
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Mobil 1 is pao?
The guy is a tribologist but makes this type of comment. Kinda puts in doubt anything else he writes.


Mobil 1 was one time a PAO and may well have been one when Labnerd wrote that about it.

His comments on product composition are primarily from lab analysis, so I would assume that was the reason for his comment at the time he made it.

While you may not agree with some of his conclusions, I think we should not so readily doubt information he provides about chemical composition.

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#3206463 - 12/04/13 06:33 PM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: Aurora09]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21301
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Aurora09
It has 120,000 miles roughly and there is a check engine light on as far as she knows for random engine misfire, Autozone's standard diagnosis. I looked around on the cobalt forums and some people said they resolved the stalling/rough idle issue by replacing the air and fuel filters. I did the air filter, cleaned the throttle body, and did two seafoam inductions spaced about an hour apart. The first being more effective than the second. If the fuel filter doesn't help, that's where I stop. I'm not real concerned with the blow-by, as this engine 2.2 doesn't actually have a PCV valve, just a tube from the valve cover body to the intake side.


While you're at it you might want to check the IAC and clean it too.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3206822 - 12/05/13 12:18 AM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: demarpaint]
Aurora09 Offline


Registered: 12/31/11
Posts: 63
Loc: Saint Clair, MI USA
This particular engine does not have an IAC valve. It doesn't have a PCV valve either. My next thing might be to clean or replace the MAP sensor.
_________________________
96 Oldsmobile Aurora, 123,000 miles, Valvoline Next-Gen Maxlife High Mileage Blend w/Purolator Pure-One Oil Filter.

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#3206906 - 12/05/13 05:46 AM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: Aurora09]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Aurora09
It has 120,000 miles roughly and there is a check engine light on as far as she knows for random engine misfire, Autozone's standard diagnosis. I looked around on the cobalt forums and some people said they resolved the stalling/rough idle issue by replacing the air and fuel filters. I did the air filter, cleaned the throttle body, and did two seafoam inductions spaced about an hour apart. The first being more effective than the second. If the fuel filter doesn't help, that's where I stop. I'm not real concerned with the blow-by, as this engine 2.2 doesn't actually have a PCV valve, just a tube from the valve cover body to the intake side.


You might want to check or replace your front oxygen sensor, if you have one. They don't last forever and, by most reports, actually do contribute to the engine running properly.
_________________________
2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE

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#3206924 - 12/05/13 06:24 AM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: Aurora09]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9935
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: Aurora09
This particular engine does not have an IAC valve. It doesn't have a PCV valve either. My next thing might be to clean or replace the MAP sensor.


No but it does have a PVC system, it uses a PCV orifice.

Spark plugs oil fouled, oil in cylinders, excessive oil consumption on Malibu, Cobalt, Alero, Grand Am, Pursuit, Saturn L with 2.2 liter engine


Spark plugs oil fouled, oil in cylinders, excessive oil consumption on Malibu, Cobalt, Alero, Grand Am, Pursuit, Saturn L with

GM has issued a technical service bulleting (TSB) #05-06-01-003C for issues relating to excessive oil consumption, spark plug fouling, and oil in cylinder for the vehicles shown below with the Ecotec 2.2L 4-Cylinder Engine (VINs D, F)

2004-2005 Chevrolet Cavalier, Classic, Malibu
2005 Chevrolet Cobalt
2004 Oldsmobile Alero
2004-2005 Pontiac Grand Am, Sunfire
2005 Pontiac Pursuit (Canada Only)
2004-2005 Saturn L-Series, ION, VUE

If you have excessive oil consumption or blue smoke on acceleration and can’t find any external oil leaks, you may have an improperly sized or plugged PCV valve or a problem the oil baffle in the camshaft cover.

GM recommends removing the cover and checking for heat stake marks where the baffle was welded to the cover. If they’re not visible, you must replace the camshaft cover because it is now out of place and blocking proper airflow and oil mist control. The oil fill tube must also be replaced with the cover.

Next, insert the smooth end of a 5/64-in. drill bit into the PCV orifice. If the bit passes through the orifice, replace the intake manifold—the opening is too large. If the opening is clogged, that’s what’s causing your problem.

More info..

http://www.ecotecforum.com/forums/showthread.php?14411-2-2-Ecotec-burning-oil-help-with-isolation
_________________________
ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

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#3207469 - 12/05/13 03:17 PM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: TrevorS]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
... MMO: Marvel Mystery oil is a mostly pale oil base meaning it's a light 20 visc. oil. The additives as shown in spectroscopy aren't much. That's not to say there isn't anything else there, just doesn't show up in analysis. If you run it as an injector cleaner in an ULSD diesel, expect damage to be done to the engine from sulfurs in the mix. The same sulfurs will be in your gas engine only the combustion process will turn some of it into sulfuric acid. Your oils base (mostly calcium) should handle the extra acids but it's not something I would use on a regular basis. The best injector cleaners and carbon removers are Stoddard Solvent based. This is the base for Techron and BG-44 cleaners. And here's another issue, what about the cats? We already know cat life is short with an engine that burns oil. So you add oil (MMO) to the gas and not expect shorter cat life? Use at your own risk but I'd use some of the proven cleaners/ carbon removers that are cat friendly before trying something that right off says it will damage an expensive piece of emissions equipment.


Per Wikipedia MMO is The product is composed of 74 percent mineral oil, 25 percent stoddard solvent, and 1 percent lard. Or, o-Dichlorobenzene (1,2-Dichlorobenzene (ortho-dichlorobenzene))0 - 5% , Fine White Mineral Oil 70 - 100% , Mineral Spirits 20 - 30%. So it should do a good enough job on injectors.

Recall that it was originally used as UCL - not an oil additive - so it would not have come in contact with lifters.
_________________________
2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE

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#3208143 - 12/06/13 05:56 AM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: Aurora09]
sprintman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 11006
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
Hold off on the Auto-Rx Plus until the new year.

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#3208185 - 12/06/13 07:11 AM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: sprintman]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9935
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Hold off on the Auto-Rx Plus until the new year.


Or just hold off permanently and fix the problem. If this is the problem that seems to be a known with this engine then nothing in a bottle is going to "fix it".
The $28 will probably buy the new intake gasket.
_________________________
ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

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#3209907 - 12/07/13 09:25 PM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: ChrisD46]
binkis Offline


Registered: 11/18/13
Posts: 14
Loc: Maryland U.S.A
Lucas green bottle stuff supposed to ail thiss?

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#3209911 - 12/07/13 09:28 PM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: TrevorS]
binkis Offline


Registered: 11/18/13
Posts: 14
Loc: Maryland U.S.A
Thank you in all yer knowledge its people like you who help make sense of the additive world

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#3210333 - 12/08/13 11:31 AM Re: Seafoam vs MMO vs Auto-RX [Re: Aurora09]
Aurora09 Offline


Registered: 12/31/11
Posts: 63
Loc: Saint Clair, MI USA
I didn't end up needing to get involved. Her car ended up breaking down and at the mechanic for a different reason. Also, she is trying to get back with her ex boyfriend, so I don't need that mess.
_________________________
96 Oldsmobile Aurora, 123,000 miles, Valvoline Next-Gen Maxlife High Mileage Blend w/Purolator Pure-One Oil Filter.

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