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#2813713 - 11/25/12 02:49 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14089
Loc: Midwest
Used by Permission of the Author for BITOG

Protection-wise, most Manual Transmisson Lubes are rated with an API protection rating of GL-4 because of the type of gearing used as will be explained later.

I think manual (or Stickshift or Standard) transmissions are more fun to drive than automatic transmissions. Manual transmissions require more driver interaction than do automatic transmissions. You can’t talk on the cellphone, or eat, or text when you have to shift gears.

In this paper we examine the internal mechanisms of the manual transmission and the effects of the lubricant’s viscosity and additives. We are discussing light truck and passenger vehicle manual transmissions only. We will not discuss OTR or heavy-duty transmissions which use a different type of lubricant.

A modern gearbox is of the constant mesh type, in which all gears are always in mesh. The exception is the reverse idler gear which will be explained later. This constant mesh and the cut of the gears insure a rather quiet transmission. In any one gear, only one of these meshed pairs of gears is locked to the shaft on which it is mounted. The others are being allowed to rotate freely; thus greatly reducing the skill required to shift gears. Most modern cars are fitted with a synchronized gear box, although it is entirely possible to construct a constant mesh gearbox without synchromesh, as found in motorcycles for example.

Some manual transmissions are integrated with differentials to form a “Transaxle.” The differentials here are usually NOT the hypoid types found in larger vehicles, but are of the spider gear configuration.

Going from the top of the transmission case downward, we have the shifter mound which contains the shift lever and linkages. The shifter will have a seal or boot at the top with an additional gasket to keep the lubricant from flowing out when slung by the gearing. Below that are two shafts, one the input shaft and the other being the output shaft. The input shaft is splined to the clutch for power connect or disconnect. The output shaft goes to a universal joint, then to the driveshaft (a hollow “torque” tube), and the driveshaft connects to the differential via another universal joint.

An illustration of a basic manual transmission is found here, so exercise the shifting as we discuss the mechanisms (not a perfect illustration but makes the point):

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission4.htm

Shifter Assembly: The gears resting on the top shaft, the input shaft, are locked onto that shaft and rotate at the same rpm as the engine. The bottom output shaft has synchronizers “splined” to this shaft, so they can move around as the gear ratio is changed. The gears on the output (bottom) shaft are allowed to rotate freely on the output shaft or on small roller or “needle” bearings, depending on the horsepower transmitted and the design. The output shaft will rotate at various rpms depending on gear selection. In first gear, for example, you want low output shaft rpm and high torque.

The shifter moves the associated linkage which connects to the shifter forks. The linkages position the shifter forks, and effectively “programs” the shifter forks in order to select the required gear ratio. I.E., for each shift lever position, the shifter forks are moved around to drive the splined synchronizers on the output shaft. The shifter forks have a bore so they can slide on the guide rods. There is a specified clearance between the shifter forks’ bore and the shifter fork guide rods. Lubricant effects: Too high a viscosity lubricant and the shifting will be hard and sluggish. More force will be required to go from one gear to another. Too thin an oil and the forks will wear, the clearances will increase, and the shifting will become sloppy and uncertain. The correct mix of base oil viscosities is needed here to insure good cold weather and hot weather shifting. Synthetics excel here because of their high viscosity index.

Synchronizer: The locking mechanism for any individual gear consists of a collar on the shaft which is able to slide sideways so that teeth or “dogs” on its inner surface bridge two circular rings with teeth on their outer circumference; one attached to the gear, one to the shaft. (One collar typically serves for two gears; sliding in one direction selects one transmission speed, in the other direction selects the other) In our illustration from above, the bottom or output shaft has splines that mate with the synchronizer “collar.” The synchronizer collar moves transversely on the splines, positioned by the shifter fork. When the rings are bridged by the collar, that particular gear is rotationally locked to the shaft and determines the output speed of the transmission. In a synchromesh gearbox, to correctly match the speed of the gear to that of the shaft as the gear is engaged, the collar initially applies a force to a cone-shaped brass clutch which is attached to the gear, which brings the speeds to match prior to the collar locking into place. The collar is prevented from bridging the locking rings when the speeds are mismatched by synchro rings also called blocker rings. Notice, before locking and speed synchronization, a lot of shearing takes place at the interfaces and for the reasons given above. Most synchronizer materials are of brass, but newer synchronizers can be made of strengthened graphite composites. Lubricant effects: A special Friction Modifier (FM) additive is incorporated into the base oil to allow just the right amount of friction before engagement. I.E., the FM gives rise to a specific coefficient of friction (COF) to allow engagement without “crunching.” Automatic Transmission Fluids (ATF) DO NOT have these specialized FM’s. Note, the specialized FM used in manual transmissions is NOT the same FM used in Limited Slip Differentials, nor is it the same FM used in Automatic Transmissions, nor is it the same FM used in engine oils. It is important to understand that there are different FM chemistries for different automotive applications!

Bearings: Lubricated bearings are used to reduce friction between rotating parts. The older Munice transmissions, for example, used brass or sintered brass sleeve bearings or bushings. Most modern transmission bearings today, as can be seen by the links given below, are of two main types 1) Roller or needle bearings, and 2) ball bearings. Ball bearings or tapered roller bearings are usually used at the shaft ends to resist radial and transverse loads. Smaller roller or pin bearings are used inside the driven gears that reside on the output shaft. Lubricant effects: Depending on the horsepower transmitted and the size of the bearings, the lubricant’s kinematic viscosities range from 7.5 cSt (ATF-range) to 14.5 cSt (equivalent to a light 75W90 gear lube) given at 100C. The anti-wear/Extreme pressure additives keep wear in check as they rotate in their races. Anti-corrosion additives keep the anti-wear/Extreme Pressure additives from attacking the synchronizers, and anti-rust additives keep any moisture from creating rust on the steel components. For lower horsepower drive trains, the lubricant must be thin enough to penetrate the cages in the pin/roller bearing areas. For higher horsepower drive trains, the lubricant must maintain a thick film in order to protect the bearing surfaces. Too thick a lubricant will cause poor cold weather performance and loss of mpg, while too thin a lubricant will cause undue wear. Of course, the lubricant is also used for cooling. The lubricant transfers heat from the bearings and gearing to the case where it is transferred to the air.

Gearing: Most gear types in manual transmissions are of the helical type, which because of the cut, reduce noise and vibration. Due to their angular cut, thrust loads are transmitted to the shafts on which they reside. The gears on the input and output shafts are usually produced in one integrated piece, called “gear clusters, “ or the cluster gear assembly. You will notice the only gear that is actually moved is the reverse idler gear. This is moved into position to mesh with the small reverse gear on the input shaft so you can “back up” or reverse direction. At higher reverse speeds, this gear will usually give off the familiar “reverse” whine. Lubricant effects: Being in constant mesh, they are dipping in the oil bath and slinging the oil up to the shifter assembly. Since they transmit torque, they must have an anti-wear/Extreme Pressure additive in the lubricant in order to reduce wear. The slipping and rolling action of the gear teeth causes localized high pressures and heating. The anti-wear/Extreme Pressure additive forms a protective but complex ferrous film at the contact surface to protect from galling and other wear mechanisms. Other components such as thrust washers, flat thrust bearings of the roller type, and shims may also need cooling, lubricant film, and anti-wear additives as well.

Rebuilding manual transmissions usually require only a modest rebuild kit consisting of bearings, synchronizers, and seals unless the transmission has been abused or the wrong lubricant has been used. In that case, gear teeth need to be examined for any chipping, galling, breakage, or other signs of problems.

(Transmission Kits).
http://www.manualtransmissionkits.com/nv4500_bk308ws_bearing_kit_rebui.htm

Here are some individual transmission parts layed out for Jeep transmissions but is typical of others.
http://www.4wd.com/Transmission-and-Transfercase/Manual-Transmissions.aspx?t_c=69&t_s=239

Images of Manual Transmissions, both external and internal:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=manu...ORM=IGRE#x0y810

If you are going to modify or rebuild your Manual Transmission, I highly recommend this book or equivalent::
http://www.mre-books.com/transmissions/rebuild_and_modify.html

Passing Thoughts

One variation on the Manual Transmission is the “Automated Manual” using a dual clutch. Some people consider many of the Honda Automatic Transmissions simply automated manual’s as well.
http://www.allpar.com/corporate/auto-manual-transmission.html

A long winded History and Summary but without the in-depth knowledge of internal mecahnics-vs-lubricants:
http://dictionary.sensagent.com/Manual_transmission/en-en/

I like this link; it contains online MT manuals for classic Chevy’s:
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/trans/index.htm
_________________________
I told a chemistry joke....there was no reaction. smile

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#3024750 - 06/06/13 01:20 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14089
Loc: Midwest
Manual Transmission Fluids (MTL) Fluids containing MTL Application Specific Additive Packages with GL-4 Ratings

Choosing a Manual Transmission fluid can be confusing.

Many times there is simply a specification referenced and no information about the viscosity of a fluid at 100C, where the oil viscosity is documented at the higher testing temperature.

What I recommend you do when looking for a replacement fluid is to determine the viscosity of the fluid at 100C either from the manufacturer's Product Data Sheet or from a New oil Analysis or VOA.

After knowing the viscosity at 100C (212F), one can then attempt to match up the fluid to one or more of those below:

A. The four MTL fluids closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.1 (About the same viscosity as a DexronVI) or so are:

1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,

2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,

3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.

4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC


B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.5 cSt versions (About the same viscosity as a DexronIII)

1. Royal Purple's Synchromax

2. Ravenol MTF-2

3. Honda MTF

4. VW part number G052512A2

5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid

6. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-1, 2


C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt

D. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II 8.2 cSt

E. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt

F. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt




G. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt range are:

1. Redline MTL 70W80.

2. Amsoil MTL

3. GM Synchromeshs’

4. Volvo MTF 645

5. Ford Motor Craft XT-M5-QS


H. The next higher viscosity MTL would be:

1. Redline MT-85 – 12.0 cSt



I. The next higher viscosity MTLs would be:

1. Amsoil MTG 14.5 cSt

2. Redline MT-90 15.6 cSt

3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90
_________________________
I told a chemistry joke....there was no reaction. smile

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#3074093 - 07/23/13 03:08 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14089
Loc: Midwest
Here is what application-specific (Dedicated) MTLs consist of:

1. Base oils of various types and viscosities to make a specific viscosity and have anti-shear properties

2. GL-4 Performance Improvement (PI additive package) chemistry which consists of the following
a) GL-4 anti-wear (AW) additives
b) anti-rust additive
c) copper and aluminum metal deactivator/buffering agent
d) anti-foamant
e) special friction modifier (FM)
f) dye


Application Specific = Dedicated.


Edited by MolaKule (07/23/13 03:09 PM)
_________________________
I told a chemistry joke....there was no reaction. smile

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#3197706 - 11/25/13 01:15 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
Nederlander75 Offline


Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 859
Loc: Behind you, move over so I can...
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
GL-4 is a level of protection rating for gears and is generally applied to manual transmissions and to manual transaxles that do not have hypoid designs.

The older formulations in GL-4 MT lubes had about 1200 to 1500 ppm of phosphorous and zinc or ZDDP as the primary Anti-Wear additive. Some simply contained a lower level of phosphorous-sulfur EP additives like those used in differential (GL-5) lubes.

GL-4 MT lubes don't need a strong EP additive level like the phosphorous-sulfur EP levels in a differential lubricant because of the type of gearing and gear-tooth loading.

If you care to read the White Papers you will see that gear lubes, whether GL-4 or GL-5, have more than just Anti-Wear (AW) or Extreme-Pressure (EP) additives.

ALL Gear lubes contain anti-rust, anti-foam, and Metal Deactivator chemistries.

Metal Deactivator chemistries are chemical compounds that keep an additive component or contaminant from reacting with metals in the gear box.

The important thing to keep in mind about the Specific Application GL-4 MT lubes is that they contain the proper friction modifier chemistries to assist with better shifting and synchro engagement.

Personally, I relegate GL-5 rated lubes to hypoid differentials only.




Mola, Im reviving this because I recently saw an RX8 UOA side by side of RL MT-90 versus Swepco 201 (GL4 MT specific 75w90 versus a GL5 general purpose 80w90) where the Swepco showed significantly less wear metal occurrence versus the RL. GL4 75w90 is spec'd by the OEM. I would expect that the GL5 or non MT specific to have generated more metals in the UOA given its not MT specific or GL4, Can you tell me what I might be missing here?

Thank you


Edited by Nederlander75 (11/25/13 01:16 PM)

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#3198877 - 11/26/13 04:02 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14089
Loc: Midwest
Quote:
Mola, Im reviving this because I recently saw an RX8 UOA side by side of RL MT-90 versus Swepco 201 (GL4 MT specific 75w90 versus a GL5 general purpose 80w90) where the Swepco showed significantly less wear metal occurrence versus the RL. GL4 75w90 is spec'd by the OEM. I would expect that the GL5 or non MT specific to have generated more metals in the UOA given its not MT specific or GL4, Can you tell me what I might be missing here?


I haven' see the UOA's nor the age, driving conditions, and otherwise the history and backgrounds of these trannies so I cannot make a comment without that data.
_________________________
I told a chemistry joke....there was no reaction. smile

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#3199524 - 11/27/13 09:51 AM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
Nederlander75 Offline


Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 859
Loc: Behind you, move over so I can...
Sorry, I was asking strictly theoretically. But I do understand.

Thank you

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#3205236 - 12/03/13 05:10 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14089
Loc: Midwest
Here is an updated list of MTLs:


Quote:
Manual Transmission Fluids (MTL) Fluids containing MTL Application Specific Additive Packages with GL-4 Ratings

Choosing a Manual Transmission fluid can be confusing.

Many times there is simply a specification referenced and no information about the viscosity of a fluid at 100C, where the oil viscosity is documented at the higher testing temperature.

What I recommend you do when looking for a replacement fluid is to determine the viscosity of the fluid at 100C either from the manufacturer's Product Data Sheet or from a New oil Analysis or VOA.

After knowing the viscosity at 100C (212F), one can then attempt to match up the fluid to one or more of those below:

A. The four MTL fluids closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.1 (About the same viscosity as a DexronVI) or so are:

1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,

2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,

3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.

4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC


B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.5 cSt versions (About the same viscosity as a DexronIII)

1. Royal Purple's Synchromax

2. Ravenol MTF-2

3. Honda MTF

4. VW part number G052512A2

5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid

6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2


C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt

D. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II 8.2 cSt

E. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt

F. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt


G. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt range are:

1. Redline MTL 75W80

2. Amsoil MTL (9.7 cSt)

3. GM Synchromesh’s

4. Volvo MTF 645

5. Ford Motor Craft XT-M5-QS

6. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF


H. The next higher viscosity MTL would be:

1. Redline MT-85 – 12.0 cSt


I. The next higher viscosity MTLs would be:

1. Amsoil MTG 13.9 cSt

2. Redline MT-90 15.6 cSt

3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90

4. Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75w-90


Edited by MolaKule (12/03/13 05:10 PM)
_________________________
I told a chemistry joke....there was no reaction. smile

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#3231410 - 12/29/13 09:06 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14089
Loc: Midwest
Updated Listing:

Manual Transmission Fluids (MTL) Fluids containing MTL Application Specific Additive Packages with GL-4 Ratings

Choosing a Manual Transmission fluid can be confusing.

Many times there is simply a specification referenced and no information about the viscosity of a fluid at 100C, where the oil viscosity is documented at the higher testing temperature.

What I recommend you do when looking for a replacement fluid is to determine the viscosity of the fluid at 100C either from the manufacturer's Product Data Sheet or from a New oil Analysis or VOA.

After knowing the viscosity at 100C (212F), one can then attempt to match up the fluid to one or more of those below:


Quote:
A. The four MTL fluids closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.1 (About the same viscosity as a DexronVI) or so are:

1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,

2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,

3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.

4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC


B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.5 cSt versions (About the same viscosity as a DexronIII)

1. Royal Purple's Synchromax

2. Ravenol MTF-2

3. Honda MTF

4. VW part number G052512A2

5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid

6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2


C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt

D. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II 8.2 cSt

E. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt

F. Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt

G. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt


H. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt range are:

1. Redline MTL 75W80

2. Amsoil MTL

3. GM Synchromesh’s

4. Volvo MTF 645

5. Ford Motor Craft XT-M5-QS

6. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF

7. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF

I. The next higher viscosity MTL would be:

1. Redline MT-85 – 12.0 cSt


J. The next higher viscosity MTLs would be:

1. Amsoil MTG

2. Redline MT-90

3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90

4. Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75w-90



Edited by MolaKule (12/29/13 09:06 PM)
_________________________
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#3231891 - 12/30/13 01:24 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
jaj Offline


Registered: 08/21/03
Posts: 891
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Does anyone here know the full story on B.5 above - GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid?

What I've read about it, and the applications that it's spec'd all indicate that it's the fluid formerly known as Dexron III with a new name (but without a new formula). For instance, it's GM's factory fill for the Tremec TR6060 in the Corvette and Camaro (among other models). FF used to be Dex III and before that it was Dex II. The same gearbox used by Ford and Chrysler are filled with Mercon V and ATF+4 respectively. Even Tremec themselves say "use Dexron III" in all their literature.

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#3233760 - 01/01/14 02:36 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14089
Loc: Midwest
The grapevine info I got was that they increased the phosphorous AW component when they changed the labeling.

Since there are better application specific MTL fluids than DexronIII for MTLs, I don't know why anyone would use it in any MTL.
_________________________
I told a chemistry joke....there was no reaction. smile

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#3234277 - 01/01/14 11:56 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
jaj Offline


Registered: 08/21/03
Posts: 891
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
The grapevine info I got was that they increased the phosphorous AW component when they changed the labeling.

Since there are better application specific MTL fluids than DexronIII for MTLs, I don't know why anyone would use it in any MTL.


From Tremec's website FAQ:

Q: What type of fluid does TREMEC recommended?

A: For all ... aftermarket models we recommend Dexron III ATF.

Q: Why use automatic transmission fluid in a manual gearbox?

A: Automatic transmission fluids provide the necessary protection and lubrication, while still allowing the synchronizer to function at its best.

Q: Why not use a synthetic fluid?

A: ... For peace of mind, remember that TREMEC conducts all of its OEM validation testing using conventional fluids without issue.

I trimmed out some extraneous references to transmissions that actually take MTL (one model number only) and a negative piece about synthetic fluids. Basically, if it's the cheapest Dex III ATF, then it's welcome in your Tremec. The thing that amazes me is that they are so adamant on ATF, when there are real GL-4 oils with better viscosimetrics and better anti-wear available.

Is it just a relentless commitment to the fluids that Borg-Warner chose back when these gearboxes were developed? Who knows! If I could find a GL4 that had the right friction characteristics, I'd give it a try. I've read that Ford's DCT fluid works in these gearboxes, but at $30 a quart, I'm not hot to buy five quarts just to give it a try (my TR6060 takes 4.2 quarts).

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#3234830 - 01/02/14 03:21 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14089
Loc: Midwest
Quote:
Is it just a relentless commitment to the fluids that Borg-Warner chose back when these gearboxes were developed? Who knows!


That's my belief as well.


Quote:
If I could find a GL4 that had the right friction characteristics, I'd give it a try. I've read that Ford's DCT fluid works in these gearboxes, but at $30 a quart, I'm not hot to buy five quarts just to give it a try (my TR6060 takes 4.2 quarts).


Check the fluids I listed under B. such as RP Synchromax.

Also try the new Valvoline fluid I had tested.


Edited by MolaKule (01/02/14 03:22 PM)
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I told a chemistry joke....there was no reaction. smile

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#3272731 - 02/06/14 03:58 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14089
Loc: Midwest
This comment and response was on the ATF and Differential Forum but I thought it was appropriate to post here as well:


Quote:
Quote:
badtic: The Fuchs 75W-80 is GL-5 rated, not GL-4. The Fuchs straight 75W is their GL-4 offering.



Mola: Thank you but I am already aware of that. I know what the product literature says.

Yes, it a is GL5 rated lubricant which ALSO means, for this SPECIFIC PRODUCT, it is also backward compatible for GL4 applications.

This product is one of the few, and maybe the only current MTL lubricant that serves dual purposes; 1) as a manual transmission fluid, 2) as a differential fluid.

This fluid is used in common sumps, such as the Subaru systems, where a common sump serves two mechanisms, the manual transmission and the differential. Hence, this specific fluid has to have a MINIMUM protection rating of GL5.

It is also one of the few, and maybe the only current GL5 MTL lubricants that incorporates the needed friction modifier for smooth synchro operation.

It is also one of the few, and maybe the only current GL5 MTL lubricants that incorporates the needed friction modifier for smooth synchro operation.



Edited by MolaKule (02/06/14 04:10 PM)
_________________________
I told a chemistry joke....there was no reaction. smile

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#3377388 - 05/21/14 01:15 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14089
Loc: Midwest
Update on MTL's:

Quote:
Manual Transmission Fluids (MTL) Fluids containing MTL Application Specific Additive Packages with GL-4 Ratings

Choosing a Manual Transmission fluid can be confusing.

Many times there is simply a specification referenced and no information about the viscosity of a fluid at 100C, where the oil viscosity is documented at the higher testing temperature.

What I recommend you do when looking for a replacement fluid is to determine the viscosity of the fluid at 100C either from the manufacturer's Product Data Sheet or from a New oil Analysis or VOA.

After knowing the viscosity at 100C (212F), one can then attempt to match up the fluid to one or more of those below:

A. The four MTL fluids closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.1 (About the same viscosity as a DexronVI) or so are:

1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,

2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,

3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.

4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC


B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.5 cSt versions (About the same viscosity as a DexronIII)

1. Royal Purple's Synchromax

2. Ravenol MTF-2

3. Honda MTF

4. VW part number G052512A2

5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid

6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2


C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt

D. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II 8.2 cSt

E. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt
F. Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt

G. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt




H. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt range are:

1. Redline MTL 75W80

2. Amsoil MTL

3. GM Synchromesh’s

4. Volvo MTF 645
5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)
6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF

I. The next higher viscosity MTL would be:

1. Redline MT-85 – 12.0 cSt


J. The next higher viscosity MTLs in the 14-15 cSt (75W90) range would be:

1. Amsoil MTG

2. Redline MT-90

3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90
4. Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75w-90
5. Ford XT-75W90-QGT (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)
6. Ford MOTORCRAFT® Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid XT-M5-QS
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I told a chemistry joke....there was no reaction. smile

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#3381947 - 05/27/14 06:13 AM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
yvon_la Offline


Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 594
Loc: quebec canada
WOULD A J2360 PRODUCT MEET the transmission requirement since j2360 spec is an international standard ?or it still would be harsh on synchro of some transmission?i know only one corp that extensively test transmission type damage for oxidation rust etc and its Allison but wouldn't it be overkill to use that oil .I mean the 300 hour copper corrosion test is one epic thing,but would that oil be the best for our transmission?
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Truck driver
Nissan versa note s 2014
Mechanicly inclined

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