0W 40--Mobil 1 or Royal Purple?

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: nleksan


However, I will bet anything that the same motor running M1 0w40 would not survive as long, much less have ZERO wear after a 20k mile post build teardown!


I dunno bud, I've seen several boosted 302's (different application I know) making well over 500HP to the tires on boost running Castrol Syntec 5w-50, M1 5w-50.....etc with zero wear on tear-down and going well beyond the mileage you've cited. And neither of those oils have the same list of OEM endorsements as M1 0w-40.

I've also got a fair bit of experience with heavily beat on N/A 302's with M1 0w-40 including my own 338,000Km example that have shown zero wear on tear-down, and those tear-downs were performed for performance upgrades, not due to issues with the engines. Not quite in the same league as what you are alluding to, but anecdotes are anecdotes

 

[SHOZ]

Isn't Royal Purple the one that scours away the honing marks in the cylinders?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: nleksan
Yeah, it's the 5w40 marketed as the "Euro" oil, and while I have enough stashed that I haven't bought any in some time, I had just assumed it was reformulated with the rest.

I never actually tried the 5w-40. I did use the 0w-40 with the ACEA specs for a time in my old Audi. Of course, it originally specified conventionals, but a 0w-40 or 5w-40 of any sort had obvious benefits in that vehicle. RP just happened to be one of the more price attractive options, believe it or not.

It's interesting to note that, at least at the time, the 0w-40 and 5w-40 grades did cost RP distributors more than did the other grades. I believe it was around $0.50 or so more per quart.

 

[nleksan]

Just to be clear, I am referencing primarily my built 328, which is blueprinted to thetightest end of factory tolerance specs. A cursory glance shows that to be a very significant amount "tighter" than MOST big blocks.

Also, the stresses that a dual VANOS system w hydraulic lifters puts on an oil is quite different from what a pushrod spinning half the speed requires, which having a beautiful M5, you are clearly aware of.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Genuinely glad you've found such success with RP and RL. No sarcasm.

What's at issue is the other half of what you've said, namely that Mobil 1 0w-40 is somehow worse. That seems... hard to believe.


I love the stories, but I can show you dozens of extremely expensive high end motors that run much more mundane oils and yet still last nearly forever.

I have a built up supercharged 572 in a boat that cranks out well in excess of 850 hp on the dyno and has had mostly Amsoil Dominator in it. The investment was quite substantial, yet my 3rd gen machinist BIL recommends plain dino oil to almost anyone he builds for. He just took in a 20k crate motor where a client wants 10k worth of upgrades it!

IMO as long as there are no issues with oiling volume, temp, pressure, or clearances and the oil is changed appropriately almost any modern oil is substantially better than needed.

Specialty engines such as mentioned may have issues that higher quality oils can help with in a track situation, of course. But that does not guarantee these oils are any 'better' in a different engine...

 

[d00df00d]

Still waiting for any evidence to suggest that RP or RL succeeds where Mobil 1 fails.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Still waiting for any evidence to suggest that RP or RL succeeds where Mobil 1 fails.


You won't get it. When uber-rich hot rodders are using dino in their 30k motors I tend to believe most oils are better than needed for the overwhelming majority of us.

But I repeat I do not doubt that a specialty lube can deal with a specific engine that has issues...

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Still waiting for any evidence to suggest that RP or RL succeeds where Mobil 1 fails.


You won't get it. When uber-rich hot rodders are using dino in their 30k motors I tend to believe most oils are better than needed for the overwhelming majority of us.

But I repeat I do not doubt that a specialty lube can deal with a specific engine that has issues...


Well said

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: nleksan
Just to be clear, I am referencing primarily my built 328, which is blueprinted to thetightest end of factory tolerance specs. A cursory glance shows that to be a very significant amount "tighter" than MOST big blocks.

Also, the stresses that a dual VANOS system w hydraulic lifters puts on an oil is quite different from what a pushrod spinning half the speed requires, which having a beautiful M5, you are clearly aware of.


Don't worry, I was fully aware of what you were referencing

My point was that at that power level (and these are Small Block Ford engines with 5.0L of displacement.... relatively tight motors that were all hand assembled... which for a factory engine that was mass produced, struck me as being pretty cool

) I observed no bearing, cylinder or piston wear in these engines (that belonged and belong to friends of mine) when they were disassembled.

And yes, the VANOS system is certainly stressful on oil, no argument there. But the cam/lobe and rocker/valve interface on a roller pushrod motor running heavy valve springs so that it can spin to 6,500 is stressful too. And these engines only have 5-quart sumps and no oil coolers

 

[nleksan]

Fair points all around.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: nleksan
Also, the stresses that a dual VANOS system w hydraulic lifters puts on an oil is quite different from what a pushrod spinning half the speed requires, which having a beautiful M5, you are clearly aware of.



There are similar systems from other manufacturers that will happily hum along for 200k+ on off-the-shelf 5w30.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

To bring up an old post don't forget that M1 0w40 is used off the shelf as a "race" oil.

I have tracked evo's for 10 years doing the scca solo 2 scene, and you know what oil most people ran in their cars? M1 0w40. In one of my Evo's I put in some race cams and after 40k miles of dd use and track use my OEM cams were within spec for a new part.

All I'm saying is I too have run RL and have posted my UOA's on it and love the stuff. If it was VW approved I'd have it in my GTI BUT I must say that I have personally seen what M1 can do in many applications and it's impressive.

Jeff

 

[SteveSRT8]

I'm not sure too many around here would call RL a bad oil, perhaps an expensive one?

M1 0W-40 is right on my cap. Back in 05 I had 3 OA reports (sorry, I cannot produce them) that showed that road course track days at 300 degree oil temps did NOTHING to the oil.

An amazing product for the price.

And BTW, cams turn at half crank speed on any 4 stroke engine I have ever seen. It's all that chain on those DOHC setups that is hard on an oil...

 

[kschachn]

Nevermind.

 

[Clevy]

M1 for 25 a jug is tough to beat however I like RP and if the royal purple you are considering contains synerlec then that would be my choice if price was within a few bucks.
That synerlec additive that made RP famous really works and it's what makes rp special. Without synerlec I wouldn't bother with it.
I got 15-20 quarts of euro rp in the 5w-30 and 5w-40 flavours and both variants contain synerlec. I got them at a yard sale along with the mother load of other syns.
Unless the RP product you're looking at contains synerlec don't bother,not when you can get a proven performer like M1 0w-40 easily and inexpensively.
Jmo. I think synerlec is special and I've seen firsthand a cam with over 300k miles get removed from a very well beat on chev 350 and there was no wear scar whatsoever,and the engine ran as good as it did new.
It was getting a new cam,stroker crank from a 400,boring the cylinders 60 over. Engine was going into a tow truck.
Anyways the point is the engine was stock,used royal purple at every oil change from new and I couldn't feel any wear on the cam and even the cylinder bores weren't opened up in the middle.
Synerlec is something special

 

[330indy]

Originally Posted By: nleksan
I just wrote a long, way longer than I intended (rambling) post about my personal experience with mostly Redline, but also RP, in my BMW's. It mainly refers to my competition use, but I use them in every BMW I own and have owned in the past 8 years, including everything in my signature.

The regular RP is absolutely good oil, although the SN formula is actually not quite as good ironically as the older, but the HPS/XPR are top shelf. Redline oils are what have kept my motors alive and well through hundreds of track hours, and I trust them implicitly. M1 does not have that going for it, and I am not exactly looking to put an oil I don't trust into one of my race engines ($45k+ motor) to see if it can hold up!

Anyway, I'd recommendgyou read my post, it's in the general passenger car oil section in the "Synthetic?..." thread. I apologize in advance for the rambling. Keep in mind it's my experience, and the experience of people I know, and while it's a FACT for us, it may not be for you.

However, I will bet anything that the same motor running M1 0w40 would not survive as long, much less have ZERO wear after a 20k mile post build teardown!


Redline Oil Rocks!
I too trust it implicitly.
Running 0w-40 in my 3 liter M54 BMW 330i this winter and in sub zero days it has been fantastic. peace of mind = worth every penny
i will switch back to their 5w-40 in the Spring.

 

[SilverC6]

Faith and beliefs are always stronger that science.

So if you believe in RP and have faith in RL, then use them.

I'll take the best stuff that Castrol or Exxon/Mobil makes for my most severe applications.

 

[billpace1956]

The mobil1 website said to run M1 0w-40 in my mb diesels ( 1983 240d manual 4 speed @ 1984 300sd ), I have and they start up very fast compared to the 15w-40 conventional I was using. I will run a uoa after 7,500 miles to see how it holds up. I use 1 quart of makeup on the 240d after 3,500 miles. The 300sd uses about 1 pint after 5,000 miles. I do think that I could get at LEAST 10,000 miles on each oil change with makeup oil going into the sump, but I wonder about the soot level getting above 2% the MB limit. The uoa should be a good guide. Any thoughts or ideas?

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Faith and beliefs are always stronger that science.

So if you believe in RP and have faith in RL, then use them.

I'll take the best stuff that Castrol or Exxon/Mobil makes for my most severe applications.


Bravo.

Some of the finest and highest output power density vehicles spec M1 0w-40 as OEM.

What's not to like? Cheap, readily available, fabulous performance.

But if folks really 'believe' then it is true... for them!

 

[rw19]

I use 0w 40 in my CTS-V its a fine oil in my opinion. But I don't do UOAs as I always seem to pull all my oils FAR to early due to my compulsions.