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#3203025 - 12/01/13 03:14 PM Re: Difference between proper/improper lug nut torque! [Re: KrisZ]
Ken2 Offline


Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 6277
Loc: Washington St.
We don't know the quality of the steel used in the Ford lug nuts.

Agreed, abusing the nuts and studs with an impact wrench is bad. The local Les Schwab tire store has their guys bang the nuts up hard with the impact wrench, then rapidly click multiple times with a torque wrench to check that none are loose. How tight isn't a concern. I want to see the nut turn before the torque wrench clicks once, but what do I know?...I'm not a tire expert.

Don't trust a torque stick. I use a 65 lbs-ft green torque stick, and I can overtorque the nuts with it (80 is the spec). I
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#3203602 - 12/02/13 07:09 AM Re: Difference between proper/improper lug nut torque! [Re: KrisZ]
Char Baby Online   content


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7676
Loc: Rochester NY
I agree! Torque Sticks can be inconsistant from lug to lug. When I have checked lug nut torque after getting my car home, using my torque wrench, I have seen variances. All depends on the Tech that is using the stick. Other times I've said..."Hmmm, very good!" smile
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1980 Firebird FORMULA V8-NEW
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#3203678 - 12/02/13 08:23 AM Re: Difference between proper/improper lug nut torque! [Re: KrisZ]
Miller88 Offline


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 7177
Loc: Onondaga County
I had to replace 2 wheels on my Taurus and 10 lug nuts thanks to a tire shop that used an air gun to run them on.

I have no idea what they ran the lug nuts up to, but I (at the time) was 200 pounds and had to use a 3 foot breaker bar to remove the lug nuts.

Nothing broke, but they ruined the taper on the lug nuts and wheels. After that, two of the wheels would never stay tight.

Had to get 2 "new" wheels from a junkyard.

Then at some point, one of those warped one winter.
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#3203731 - 12/02/13 09:29 AM Re: Difference between proper/improper lug nut torque! [Re: Char Baby]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17888
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Your nuts look terrible. Just get some new ones for criminy sake.


+1.

Originally Posted By: sciphi
Yep, I snapped studs on my Cruze tightening the lugs too tight. Flipping owners manual listed the torque value incorrectly. Should be 80 ft/lbs for aluminum wheels and 100 ft/lbs for steel wheels. Steel deflects, aluminum doesn't. I spent 3-4 hours replacing studs after taking out a hub thanks to that lesson...


Per the accutorq chart, the 2011 Cruze calls for 100 ft-lbs.

I really doubt that 100 ft-lbs will wipe out studs. There was probably some debris on your studs that wiped out the threads.

Originally Posted By: Char Baby
I agree! Torque Sticks can be inconsistant from lug to lug. When I have checked lug nut torque after getting my car home, using my torque wrench, I have seen variances. All depends on the Tech that is using the stick. Other times I've said..."Hmmm, very good!" smile

As long as the sticks are replaced periodically, they are fine.

I've been using torque sticks now for quite some time and have found them to deliver consistent results.

My 80 ft-lb stick is usually in the 80-85 ft-lb range each time.

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#3203908 - 12/02/13 12:35 PM Re: Difference between proper/improper lug nut torque! [Re: KrisZ]
Traction Offline


Registered: 06/04/13
Posts: 268
Loc: iowa
Torque sticks could be okay in the right hands, but they still beat the [censored] out of chrome capped lug nuts that a socket will never fit right again on. More important with a stick you don't get any feed back like you do with a torque wrench. I always loosen by hand so I can tell how they were tightened before, then use a cordless impact to buzz them off and back on to lightly seat. Then use a torque wrench to finish, and always come back to the first lug and re-check. If it moves at all, check them all again. A lot of time the first or second one will move, and the rest are okay.

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#3204566 - 12/03/13 02:36 AM Re: Difference between proper/improper lug nut torque! [Re: Traction]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17888
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted By: Traction
Torque sticks could be okay in the right hands, but they still beat the [censored] out of chrome capped lug nuts that a socket will never fit right again on.

I have never seen what you described.

Can you show me what you are talking about?

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#3204648 - 12/03/13 07:16 AM Re: Difference between proper/improper lug nut torque! [Re: The Critic]
Char Baby Online   content


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7676
Loc: Rochester NY
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Traction
Torque sticks could be okay in the right hands, but they still beat the [censored] out of chrome capped lug nuts that a socket will never fit right again on.

I have never seen what you described.

Can you show me what you are talking about?


They look no different than an extension with their own socket for the lugnuts or, you can use your own socket at the end of the stick(brand dependent/style/price).

They usually come in a whole kit for different applications(color coded & thicker/thinner rods) for the repair shop guys.

Each stick has it's own torque rating so the Tech won't over torque the lugnuts when using an impact gun. The extension rod(torque stick) must actually twist some(but, IDK really) as not to over torque the lugnuts shocked

When used properly they work but, many folks have their doubts as too many Tech's have the impact gun waaaay toooo high for the stick to be accurate, often causing the lugnuts to be over torqued. My .02 cents!

This is what I found quickly:

http://www.torquestick.com/


Edited by Char Baby (12/03/13 07:28 AM)
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#3204665 - 12/03/13 07:34 AM Re: Difference between proper/improper lug nut torque! [Re: KrisZ]
Char Baby Online   content


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7676
Loc: Rochester NY
Did I explain that correctly?
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1980 Firebird FORMULA V8-NEW
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#3204733 - 12/03/13 09:02 AM Re: Difference between proper/improper lug nut torque! [Re: KrisZ]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17888
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
I know what a torque stick is. I would like to see pictures of the issues that he described.

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#3204865 - 12/03/13 11:32 AM Re: Difference between proper/improper lug nut torque! [Re: KrisZ]
Traction Offline


Registered: 06/04/13
Posts: 268
Loc: iowa
Still have not figured a easy way to post a picture. But the lug nuts I was saying get beat up by impact wrenches are the ones a lot of OEM's use. They have a crimped on stainless cover. Most of the damage happens taking off tight ones with a impact, and the stainless cover gets distorted, rounded off, or they fall off, then the correct socket doesn't fit anymore. Treat them with a little care by loosening by hand and torquing by hand they will last a long time.

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#3205099 - 12/03/13 03:01 PM Re: Difference between proper/improper lug nut torque! [Re: Traction]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 24664
Loc: ME
Originally Posted By: Traction
Still have not figured a easy way to post a picture. But the lug nuts I was saying get beat up by impact wrenches are the ones a lot of OEM's use. They have a crimped on stainless cover. Most of the damage happens taking off tight ones with a impact, and the stainless cover gets distorted, rounded off, or they fall off, then the correct socket doesn't fit anymore. Treat them with a little care by loosening by hand and torquing by hand they will last a long time.


Are they dodges? They have the worst long chrome lug nuts. (in fact they're so bad Blue Point sells 1/2 mm oversize sockets for this scenario.) Reaching for a punch to pop one out of my socket led me to trip, break my ankle, and end my brief tire busting career. By the time 200k miles were up, they'd have a 30 degree twist in the outer half, and take a 21mm socket to turn off a 19mm nut. The torque sticks I've seen are shallow sockets but it's also possible that lazy techs think they're NASCAR pit crew and don't sink long sockets all the way down long lug nuts.

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#3205119 - 12/03/13 03:15 PM Re: Difference between proper/improper lug nut torque! [Re: The Critic]
Char Baby Online   content


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7676
Loc: Rochester NY
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I know what a torque stick is. I would like to see pictures of the issues that he described.


Oops, I misunderstood! smile
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"Finally Retired"!

1980 Firebird FORMULA V8-NEW
2001 Lexus RX-300 V6-NEW
2004 Nissan Altima 2.5S-NEW
2006 Mazda 3i 2.0L-PreOwned

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#3205197 - 12/03/13 04:35 PM Re: Difference between proper/improper lug nut torque! [Re: KrisZ]
Traction Offline


Registered: 06/04/13
Posts: 268
Loc: iowa
In the last 12 years I have loosened by hand, and torqued by hand over 42,000 lug nuts. It always ruins my day when I have to struggle with abused lug nuts. If more tire shops would just try and be careful and spend a couple extra minutes doing it right, instead of seeing how fast they can do it/trash it, it would help everyone out in the long run. Especially, stranded by the side of the road with a flat, it's dark,raining, a holiday, and the lug nuts are rounded off, by some doofus that thinks they have to use a air wrench on everything.

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#3205247 - 12/03/13 05:19 PM Re: Difference between proper/improper lug nut torque! [Re: Traction]
oily boyd Offline


Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 509
Loc: WI
Originally Posted By: Traction
If more tire shops would just try and be careful and spend a couple extra minutes doing it right, instead of seeing how fast they can do it/trash it, it would help everyone out in the long run.


Amen.

I buy all my tires from Tire Rack and have most installed at their South Bend, IN location. They ALWAYS use a torque wrench to reinstall the wheels.
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#3205280 - 12/03/13 05:44 PM Re: Difference between proper/improper lug nut torque! [Re: KrisZ]
Traction Offline


Registered: 06/04/13
Posts: 268
Loc: iowa
It just so happens I am a Tire Rack installer in NE Iowa, and that is one of what seemed like a trick question they asked me. Do you use a torque stick. I replied never, and I never will.

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