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#3017627 - 05/30/13 10:55 AM Benefits of Oil Bypass Filtration?
TallPaul Offline


Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 12952
Loc: By Detroit
Interesting article:
Noria Article on Benefits of Bypass Filtration

Interesting that they peg filter size as an issue and we have seen a general trend towards smaller filters. I really like the big FL1A older Ford's used.

I am not going to bypass filtration because my engines last as long as I need them to and then some with the manufacturer's filter setup, though there is a benefit of longer oil life with better filtration.

Before adding a bypass filtration setup, one should consider the crud getting into your oil through the air filter. I suspect that some filter boxes are not necessarily perfectly sealed, especially on an older car.
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#3017633 - 05/30/13 11:09 AM Re: Benefits of Oil Bypass Filtration? [Re: TallPaul]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 6471
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Interesting article:
Noria Article on Benefits of Bypass Filtration

Interesting that they peg filter size as an issue and we have seen a general trend towards smaller filters. I really like the big FL1A older Ford's used.

I am not going to bypass filtration because my engines last as long as I need them to and then some with the manufacturer's filter setup, though there is a benefit of longer oil life with better filtration.

Before adding a bypass filtration setup, one should consider the crud getting into your oil through the air filter. I suspect that some filter boxes are not necessarily perfectly sealed, especially on an older car.




I'm with you on all points. I think the trend toward smaller and smaller full-flow filters is cost-driven. True, the filter really shouldn't be trapping all that much stuff if the engine is healthy and always clean, but smaller means more restriction and more tendency to go into bypass. I like a LOT of filter area since the engine's entire oil flow has to go through it, and fortunately all my vehicles either have decent-sized filters spec'd (Ram, SRT-8 both have a filter only slightly smaller than the old FL-1A size, and with a bigger center opening), or can accept a big filter (the Jeeps and the old big-blocks both accept FL-1A filters). Wife's PT Cruiser... well the fact that the factory filter for the normally aspirated 2.4 cross-references to the same filter as a Kohler 16-horse single-cylinder lawn tractor engine should tell you something. :-/ But fortunately the filter for the turbo 2.4 is twice as big and is a direct replacement.

As long as I can use large full-flow filters AND I don't plan to run more than ~10k mile OCIs, I see no need for bypass filtration. But it has a lot of attraction for longer OCIs for sure, and especially in engines that load the oil with a lot of particulates like EGR'd diesels do.
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'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 Cherokee 4.0, '11 Grand Cherokee 3.6

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#3017699 - 05/30/13 12:06 PM Re: Benefits of Oil Bypass Filtration? [Re: TallPaul]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 13760
Loc: Upstate NY
One view is if I can get my Cummins engine in my pickup to go 500K with a normal oil filter, what will bypass get me? At 500K you are on your 2nd or 3rd transmission and the body has got to be showing its age badly.
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Amsoil ATF in both vehicles & Magnefine filter.

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#3017714 - 05/30/13 12:24 PM Re: Benefits of Oil Bypass Filtration? [Re: TallPaul]
TallPaul Offline


Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 12952
Loc: By Detroit
On some vehicles, like my son's 2001 S10, there is not room for a larger filter. The 4WD version of his S10 actually has a remote filter location because they could not fit it at the engine. And his filter is very small. I upsized on the Aerostar from Fl400 to Fl1A, upsized the Voyager from it's very short one to a Fl400 (could go Fl1A even). My ranger is FL400 and would take a Fl1A if I cut the end off of a bolt but the clearance would be very tight and might bash the filter when the engine twists under high torque or expecially if an engine mount broke.

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#3017755 - 05/30/13 01:03 PM Re: Benefits of Oil Bypass Filtration? [Re: TallPaul]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15414
Loc: Sunny Florida
We used to run bypass filtration setups on all our fleet trucks as they are used as stationary power sources and some days never even get shut off from dawn till dusk!

Then one day I had lunch at our Factory authorized upfitter's shop in Ludlow MA with a GM G team engineer who consults there. After a long and detailed discussion with three very smart people and the G team man we no longer use them. They simply don't offer as much benefit now that filters and oil have improved so much.

We have service vans with 500k miles that work daily and do not drip, smoke, or burn any oil. Our 'routine' engine rebuilds now rarely occur before 250k miles.

I seriously doubt that anyone using a bypass setup on a modern gas powered vehicle will experience any better engine life than a properly maintained one without it.
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Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
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#3017771 - 05/30/13 01:14 PM Re: Benefits of Oil Bypass Filtration? [Re: TallPaul]
Jim Allen Offline


Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 4477
Loc: NW Ohio
Also, bear in mind the differences in media. A lofted synthetic media has a higher capacity per square inch of media than ordinary cellulose, so a syn media of a particular size may have twice the capacity of a similarly sized filter with cellulose. have.

The other thing nobody addressed is that contamination inputs are much less a factor than they once were. Air filtration, always the primary outside source of contaminants (wear causing) has improved. Modern engien are built better and cleaner and more precisely and, along with roller cam followers, timing belts, etc. some of the parts that threw off the most metal in older engines.. material that had to find space in a larger media, is now gone. For most engines, the smaller filters are perfectly appropriate.. especially syn media filters.

So, the bottom line I harp on is, consider the inputs. If you consider that most filters don't even reach 50% of capacity during an FCI (a rule of thumb statistic from the filter industry) you will worry less.
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Keepin' the Good Old Days of Four Wheeling Alive

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#3017823 - 05/30/13 02:11 PM Re: Benefits of Oil Bypass Filtration? [Re: Jim Allen]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 6471
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Also, bear in mind the differences in media. A lofted synthetic media has a higher capacity per square inch of media than ordinary cellulose, so a syn media of a particular size may have twice the capacity of a similarly sized filter with cellulose. have.

The other thing nobody addressed is that contamination inputs are much less a factor than they once were. Air filtration, always the primary outside source of contaminants (wear causing) has improved. Modern engien are built better and cleaner and more precisely and, along with roller cam followers, timing belts, etc. some of the parts that threw off the most metal in older engines.. material that had to find space in a larger media, is now gone. For most engines, the smaller filters are perfectly appropriate.. especially syn media filters.

So, the bottom line I harp on is, consider the inputs. If you consider that most filters don't even reach 50% of capacity during an FCI (a rule of thumb statistic from the filter industry) you will worry less.


I think we're saying the same thing. If you go back to my first post, I did say that in a healthy gas engine, the filter "shouldn't be trapping" too much stuff anyway, which is the same as saying contamination inputs are lower these days. But even in the old days, full-flow oil filters in gas engines aren't there to trap soot and combustion particles, those are too small for the media to start with. They're there to trap shed metallic particles and any sludge particles that break loose- neither of which are present in significant filter-obstructing quantities in a healthy, clean engine.

I just like bigger filters because the flow can be so much slower through them with so much less pressure differential... even when brand new. And especially when you throw in the better flow characteristics of "depth mode" or "lofted" synthetic media like the Puro Synthetic, Royal Purple, and Fram Ultra filter lines, among others. Its all about design margin. You're right, smaller filters work just fine these days without causing problems. They're spec'd because they cost less, use fewer resources to build, and fit in tighter spaces, and rarely even get 50% loaded with contaminants... but if your particular application has room to ADD some design margin, then there's nothing to lose and a possible benefit to doing it.
_________________________
'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 Cherokee 4.0, '11 Grand Cherokee 3.6

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#3017849 - 05/30/13 02:35 PM Re: Benefits of Oil Bypass Filtration? [Re: 440Magnum]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15414
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
You're right, smaller filters work just fine these days without causing problems. They're spec'd because they cost less, use fewer resources to build, and fit in tighter spaces, and rarely even get 50% loaded with contaminants... but if your particular application has room to ADD some design margin, then there's nothing to lose and a possible benefit to doing it.


Note that the G team engineer specifically stated that the reason they used the tiny filter on our 6.0 gas engines was that the filter has a "lot less to do these days". I took this to mean that modern engines simply don't make as much mess for the oil to clean up!
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix

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#3017928 - 05/30/13 04:09 PM Re: Benefits of Oil Bypass Filtration? [Re: TallPaul]
OneEyeJack Offline


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 1777
Loc: California
That article sounds like an argument for not doing extended oil change intervals. One way to remove particles is to replace the oil.
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03 Toyota 4Runner V8 2WD, 135K+ 0w-30

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#3018321 - 05/31/13 04:49 AM Re: Benefits of Oil Bypass Filtration? [Re: TallPaul]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5716
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Quote:
That article sounds like an argument for not doing extended oil change intervals. One way to remove particles is to replace the oil.


Well - sort of yes, sort of no ...
I don't see it as an argument to stay away from longer OCIs. I see it as a fair cautionary note. Extended OCIs should NOT by done blindly, or by the untrained. "Normal" OCIs are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator; they work very well for the vast majority of folks. They are not the "smart" decision, but rather the ultra conservative "safe" decision. They work well, but are most often very wasteful.

There are two ways to rid a system of contamination:
1) filter it out
2) flush it out
They are both viable means to the same end. The goal would be to have a clean system; how it gets there is a matter of maintenance preference and fiscal decision.


Bypass filters are tools to extend the OCI. Pure and simple.
There are two ways to consider setting an OCI:
1) arbitrary exposure duration limits
2) condemnation limits
In the absence of UOA data, the first option is predominant for obvious reasons. It is typically based on a distance or time marker (6 months, 200 hours, 5k miles, etc).
With the use of UOAs and PCs, then option #2 is clearly the intelligent choice.

Therefore, short-to-moderate OCIs have no need for bypass filtration; they cannot glean any advantage because the oil will never become overwhelmed by the operation (at least with healthy equipment). However, use of bypass can greatly extend OCIs, pushing the duration well past where a "normal" set up would be usurped.

When using UOAs and condemnation limits, the goal is to run the fluid/filter combination up to predetermined, thoughtful thresholds that indicate imminent change. It is, in fact, the goal to run up to those limits as close as practical, taking the totality of circumstances in mind. The goal is NOT to get the lowest magnitude of particle in a UOA; the goal is to run as far and long as you can, and stay within those limits. Therefore, longer OCIs will still produce high wear number totals (higher than one would see in the typical AR BITOG super-short OCI ...), but the wear rate will be hopefully low.

Small sumps with expensive fluids and premium filters can never pay for themselves unless the OCI is GREATLY extended. Adding in the cost of UOAs only exacerbates the issue. For most BITOGers, these are toys and not tools, because they are not utilizing them properly. It's fine to play with them for emotional satisfaction; nothing wrong with that. But there is often way too much rhetoric and far too little proof for all the claims that are tossed around here.

Long equipment life is a direct funtion of clean fluids. There are two ways to get there; filter or flush. Bypass filters don't extend equipment life; they extend lubricant lifecycle. The difference is that of correlation and casuation; indirect versus direct actions. Filters don't clean equipment, they clean fluids. Clean fluids extend lifecycle. The "benefit" of a clean sump is not unique to bypass filtration; that can be achieved just as easily by flushing/filling.

Clean fluids extend equipment life.
Clean fluids are a function of either filtering or flushing; either is a means to the same end.
Depending upon your maintenance plan and OCI duration, one is simply more cost efficient than the other.


Edited by dnewton3 (05/31/13 05:03 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

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#3018371 - 05/31/13 06:43 AM Re: Benefits of Oil Bypass Filtration? [Re: TallPaul]
Jim Allen Offline


Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 4477
Loc: NW Ohio
Newton: Great summation of the facts, Dave.

440: Yep, you are right. Yours is a good argument for a larger filter when it applies. More media would ben helpful to the thick oil crowd because the drop in DP would help reduce bypass events. The long OCI folks would also have that extra margin of avoid bypass towards the end of the OCI.

I wish my FL820S had a substantial larger filter option because if I could find such a filter, I could see what the difference in DP would be between the two when I do my series of filter tests... likely in the fall.
_________________________
Jim Allen
Keepin' the Good Old Days of Four Wheeling Alive

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#3202546 - 11/30/13 11:32 PM Re: Benefits of Oil Bypass Filtration? [Re: TallPaul]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1187
Loc: Kellogg, IA
I guess the difference is the engine (gas or diesel), the EPA standard it falls under, etc. Bypass can be a good thing, even with normal OCI's, on commercial heavy truck diesels after 2003 EPA standards kicked in. The soot loading these things are experiencing due to EGR and other factors is downright criminal. Capturing a large amount of that soot via bypass can only be a good thing. And a lot of commercial heavy truck diesels have pretty long OEM recommended drain intervals, with Detroit being the OCI recommended interval winner at 50,000 miles for its DD15 platform. The engine I have in my semi is not that one, and has a lower recommended interval, but the soot loading is still pretty high. That is the primary reason I run bypass on my diesels.

I guess it could be argued that changing the oil would be an option over a bypass to get that soot out of there, but 10 gallons of oil compared to a $20 filter? You do the math and figure out what would be more cost effective.
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#3203786 - 12/02/13 10:32 AM Re: Benefits of Oil Bypass Filtration? [Re: Jim Allen]
Ramblejam Offline


Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 1019
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
I wish my FL820S had a substantial larger filter option because if I could find such a filter, I could see what the difference in DP would be between the two when I do my series of filter tests... likely in the fall.


Fram PH2975 is $6.29
Wix 51087 is $9.88

Both on RockAuto.

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#3225216 - 12/23/13 07:47 AM Re: Benefits of Oil Bypass Filtration? [Re: TallPaul]
msparks Offline


Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 3324
Loc: Clarksville, Tennessee
I talked with a guy at the Louisville Truck show who ran both a bypass filter system and a spinner centrifugal system. He said the Spinner was the back up with the bypass doing most of the work. Even then the spinner had very little soot in catch basin. He can go hundreds of thousands of miles on an oil change.

My biggest concern with bypass filtration is the cost of installing and replacing the elements vs the cost of changing the oil. The initial upfront cost won't pay back in enough time before I'm ready to get rid of the vehicle. I've got a system sitting here and haven't installed it yet on my 2008 F150.
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#3225985 - 12/23/13 09:18 PM Re: Benefits of Oil Bypass Filtration? [Re: TallPaul]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5716
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Yup - that is pretty much true of most any costly "premium" system used in normal circumstances; they just will not be able to pay back the investment.

Long OCIs with large sumps are a great place for bypass systems.

Small sumps with normal OCIs have zero hope of ever attaining a reasonable ROI. Never, ever.

Looking at the typical gasser/light diesel engines made in the last decade+, most all of them (excluding some with design issues/flaws) can easily go 250k-300k miles with must typical daily-use "normal" products. It's almost impossible to get any ROI from bypass these days in this type use.
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

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