suggestions for a home primary/standby generator

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While I agree that generator noise can be bothersome and I also (somewhat) limit my run time, it doesn't bother me at all if I have lights and watching tv while my neighbors "suffer"...that's their choice. We don't have any close-by neighbors where we live now though.

When we were living on gen power in Houston after Hurricane Ike went through, we offered our young neighbors the use of an extension cord plugged into our gen for their refrigerator, and a few lights and stuff. We noticed our generator was really working hard, figured it was probably their fridge, and cut our lights off. Later my wife cooked dinner on the grill and went over to offer our neighbors a couple of dogs and burgers.....it was then she discovered they had more than several lamps going, the TV and Direct box was on and they were cooking dinner in their microwave! Sometimes all you can do is smile!
 
I can't imagine the size of the home that requires a 45,000 watt generator! And I can't imagine feeding that genset.

Water heaters consume 4500W.
Strip heaters are often 10,000w
 
Here is "the ticket":
I own a Home Depot sold, Ridgid brand, 8,000 kw (10,000 peak) portable generator. It powers the majority of the house. Runs on gasoline. Bullet proof Subaru Robin engine.

The beauty of it, you can maneuver and roll it in place like a 2 wheel hand dolly.
I no longer see this generator on the Home Depot web site. However they still have the smaller 6,800 kw, Yamaha engine version of it. I have a manual transfer switch and a plug in outlet behind my house for the generator.
 
My 30 years old townhouse has the original front door whose door frame is crooked. I can see gaps around the door that let cold air through. By Xmas a new door will hopefully be put in. Yeah, the townhouse is not well insulated currently. Maybe new windows next year.

I have contacted an electrician to put a manual transfer switch in the basement and an outdoor outlet behind my townhouse after giving up the LP standby generator. My cars run on gas, so, I will go for a large gas generator with an optional enclosure for outdoor storage since I do not have a garage. Rotating the stored gas to the cars is an excellent idea.

I won't be too concern about the noise from the generator. It is a personal choice; besides, I don't want to see my children suffering from cold.

Thanks to all your opinions.
 
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Are folks forgetting too that a normal generator is obnoxious and a bad neighbor thing in a townhouse when others are freezing in the dark and you in your warm home, watching TV with xmas lights on.


wow, i cant believe anyone would look at it like that. if i need power, then power is what im going to produce, i dont care what anyone thinks about it; nor should you.
before i had my generator, i was able to borrow a light tower (think those portable street lights you see on highway construction jobs at night) from work. they could also produce 6000 watts of ac and had a coupe outlets in them. i could run necessities in the house off it, and they were extremely economical to run, so i let it run all night in the extreme cold. id even stand the lights up and turn them on to load the generator a bit. everyone for miles knew i had power..........
 
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Are folks forgetting too that a normal generator is obnoxious and a bad neighbor thing in a townhouse when others are freezing in the dark and you in your warm home, watching TV with xmas lights on.


I disagree on principle, aside from excessive noise during sleeping time. I have neighbors with new high-end cars, big TVs, annual Disney vacations, etc. that can't be bothered to buy a generator. I see no reason to deprive my family & self to placate them when the power is out. They're adults and they make their own choices. To their credit, none of our generator-less nearby neighbors have whined in the past anyway. A few up the road get [censored] in general after a few days but it's aimed at the power company.

Also, mine's a little Honda inverter and we can't even hear it inside our own house...so noise level at the neighbors' homes is nonexistent. "This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine."
 
I would second the suggestions on a Keosene or propane heater and generator sized to cover things with the exception of the electric heater. It costs a TON To produce electricity via generator and using that to make electricity is extremely expensive. IIRC generator electricity can approach $1/kWH!

With a Kerosene heater you can store 5-10 gallons of the stuff safely, it lasts for years and years, and the heater needs no electricity to run. I've got a little 10k BTU "wall style" heater that will do a nice job keeping the majority of the house warm. It runs 8-10 hours on a little over a gallon of Kerosene. If you have the space you can get the 20k circular ones that would do an even better job.

Other than that, you sound like you have a good plan. Just remember to run the generator every once and a while with a good load on it to make sure it runs well, and keep the carb and stuff clean.
 
I have a Kerosene heater that I bought from a former next door neighbor, but never use it because of inexperience and concern over ventilation. Many years ago I bought three portable heaters from eBay that run on bottles/portable tanks of LP, which can be found in Home Depot. They were catching dust in my basement during that snow storm because I did not stock up any LP bottles. Now I do and will use them next time after getting a carbon monoxide detector.

Yeah, it is very expensive to get electricity from a generator; but, the simplicity/safety of using oil-filled electric heaters, which I have plenty, can't be beat.
 
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I'd stay away from the rinky dink little 1500W generators. The idea of dragging around and tripping over extension cords while switching between appliances, especially with children in the house simply isn't safe or appealing.

We have a whole house generator that's plumbed into our propane system. It runs everything, freezers, refrigerators, lighting, heating and cooling. Last year we lost our electricity in an ice storm for almost 3 days; several years ago we lost it for 6 days, during which time the temperatures dropped below zero. I didn't have to worry about the pipes freezing, we were warm and comfortable, and it was almost a non-event for us. It's rare that we go a winter without losing power for at least a day or so.

It does use a bit of propane, but we have a 1500 gallon underground propane tank, sized for that very purpose. We prepurchase our propane every season and we're on automatic fill; should we run the generator all we do is let the propane company know and they'll make a delivery and keep the tank topped off. We could probably run the generator and the furnace (conservatively) for a month without running out of propane.

It's quiet enough so that it can't be heard when you're in the house. Is it expensive? Not really-the cost of the generator was rolled into the house when we built it, and the electrical system was designed with that in mind. In all it was probably an additional $8,000 when we built the home in 1995. Given the number of times we've had to use it, I'm very, very happy that I didn't choose to jury rig one of the little 1500W generators.
 
Originally Posted By: sifan
I have a Kerosene heater that I bought from a former next door neighbor, but never use it because of inexperience and concern over ventilation. Many years ago I bought three portable heaters from eBay that run on bottles/portable tanks of LP, which can be found in Home Depot. They were catching dust in my basement during that snow storm because I did not stock up any LP bottles. Now I do and will use them next time after getting a carbon monoxide detector.

Yeah, it is very expensive to get electricity from a generator; but, the simplicity/safety of using oil-filled electric heaters, which I have plenty, can't be beat.


A battery powered CO detector is a must with either a generator or the LP or Kerosene heaters. A wind can pull the exhaust of a generator back into the house, even if it is put in the proper place 10-15 ft away from the house.

Kerosene heaters are not that dangerous at all - ventilation with them is as simple as cracking a window to allow some air in. And it's a good idea for the propane heaters too as both are burning things in confined space.

I do get the idea of running space heaters on generator power. During 2011's Halloween snowstorm we did just that - wan the generator to run a space heater in our bedroom. Worked well but we're talking 1 1500w heater that ran all night and kept us nice and toasty. I'd not want to run 5-10kw of electric heat on generator power if that was at all avoidable. Especially with as few times as that would be needed.
 
I have a 5KW 6250 start Coleman Powermate with the Subaru Robin engine. I backfeed through my welder outlet and all works well.
 
Originally Posted By: sifan
Should I contact another standby generator contractor for a second opinion? Or go for a standby/primary diesel generator? Or other alternatives?


Simon,
You certainly should get several quotes/opinions, but first do your own research. First of all you need to figure out how many watts do you need (see for example http://www.generatorguide.net/wattage.html ). You don't necessarily need to power everything in an emergency- standby generator's transfer switch normally comes with a subpanel, which you can wire to the essentials.
As for the fuel choice, if you don't have gas line, I would go for propane- it can be stored indefinetely and propage generators are cheaper than diesel ( http://www.smps.us/home-generators.html ). As for portables, Honda is so expensive because they make sinewave generators- hardly you would need this type. A regular 10kW portable would cost $1-2K.
 
I just talked to a contractor face to face and agreed to the installation of a 20 kW LP standby generator with a full house automatic transfer switch plus an underground 1000 gallon tank in my backyard. After following this thread with long consideration I decide to go with this route to ensure that my wife will be taken care of during a blackout when I am not around to set up the portable generator and keep it running for 24 hours. Also this eliminates the hassle of fuel storage issue. I hope it will also increase the property value. The LP generator will run for 3 minutes every week automatically for self-diagnostic. I will have the LP supplier to top off the tank once a year. The contractor also suggested future replacement of electric water heater and furnace when the time comes since LP is cheaper than electricity. I am not sure if LP is a cheaper energy source than electricity, but worry about gas explosion or poisoning inside the home.
 
Originally Posted By: lzr
As for the fuel choice, if you don't have gas line, I would go for propane- it can be stored indefinetely and propage generators are cheaper than diesel ( http://www.smps.us/home-generators.html ). As for portables, Honda is so expensive because they make sinewave generators- hardly you would need this type. A regular 10kW portable would cost $1-2K.


Only problem with propane is you need a considerable amount to run your generator for long periods of time and it tends to de-rate the generator as it has less BTU's than gasoline or Diesel. Availability can also be an issue - if you are running 20lb bottles you will be competing with people that are trying to get it for grills and such. Even the big tanks may be an issue as you will be competing with all the other people in the area looking for it for heat and such. From what I remember in Sandy, propane was in as short of a supply as gasoline.

Honda - you are paying for "the name" (IMHO Everything Honda is vastly overrated). All regular generators are sine wave - it's a byproduct of the generator head design. The inverter designs are the ones that may not be "pure sine" but even if it is close 99% of today's electronics will be fine - they are all designed for places where electricity is pretty poor and almost all them (TV, computer, etc) convert AC to DC anyway. Heck they run fine off a square wave inverter in the car.

We've got a Harbor Freight 5500w special that has not let us down. At the $500 I paid for it, I can buy 2 for the price of the Honda EU 2k.
 
Originally Posted By: sifan
The contractor also suggested future replacement of electric water heater and furnace when the time comes since LP is cheaper than electricity. I am not sure if LP is a cheaper energy source than electricity, but worry about gas explosion or poisoning inside the home.


Definitely cheaper than electricity. Electricity is the most expensive way to heat things, be it water, food, or your home.

There is no fear with gas - you are far more likely to die in a car accident or even get struck by lightning than you are to have an issue with natural gas or LP. The most important thing to do is keep alert for the smell of it and if you smell it, go out and call the fire dept. to investigate.

I grew up with natural gas and wouldn't have anything else. It is cheap, plentiful, and efficient.
 
Since my townhouse is very small, the contractor estimated that 1000 gallons of LP will power the standby generator for two months non-stop. I will be careful in electricity consumption during a blackout. The longest blackout in my area was about a week. So, I won't worry about LP shortage.

My snow blower and lawn mower are Honda made. They always start with couple pulls after coming out of long storage. I had a 6500 Watt Honda generator (given by my dad and now donated to my church) which was dormant for a year with a full tank of gas. It came alive with 2nd pull that really surprised me. Honda products are expensive, but they always start when needed which is very important to me.
 
Not sure about the LP usage rate - I know with the smaler generators it's about 1.5x the gas rate. But I'd defer to the guy who does this for a living vs me, the random Internet guy.
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I get your point on Honda and can't argue with your experiences. My Briggs stuff also starts 1st or 2nd pull after storage - that is more a function of the storage practices than anything else. Even out 13HP Chonda on the generator, while won't pull start easily (I don't think pull starting a 13 HP engine is a good idea), it will fire up with the electric start. It can be a bear sometimes but I think that's due to the POS auto choke system. Never been let down with Briggs and they have been building engines way longer than Honda and parts are plentiful and everywhere.

Anyway, sounds like you should be all set for the winter.
 
I have a Honda eu6500is 6500W inverter generator. At full load, you get about 6.8 KW of electricity per gallon of gasoline. At 1/4 load, it is less efficient, you get about 5.0 KW per gallon.

One gallon of propane has 80% of BTU of gasoline. Using the efficiency of the Honda generator at 1/4 load, a propane generator should produce about 4 KW per gallon of propane.

Note: The units of energy per gallons are KW, not KW/hours.
 
I know this sounds simplistic, but if you are concerned about your water freezing, crack a few of the faucets open slightly and let them drip. I used to have to do this when I lived in a very poorly insulated and very drafty house with only baseboard heat. When the power would go out, the temperature in the house would drop to whatever the outside temperature was in just a few hours. I would let the faucets drip and the pipes never did freeze. Sure it raises the water bill a bit, but it saves a lot of work crawling under the house later to repair water lines.
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Not sure about the LP usage rate - I know with the smaler generators it's about 1.5x the gas rate. But I'd defer to the guy who does this for a living vs me, the random Internet guy.
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My experience, converting several generators from gas to propane (Briggs and Tecumseh powered) is that there is no significant difference between the two fuels. The likely reason, the generators run so much smoother on propane.

I've found that most OPE runs fairly rich on gas.
 
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