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#3202556 - 11/30/13 11:44 PM Re: HD introduces 2 new bikes [Re: Propflux01]
Spazdog Offline


Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 5492
Loc: Arlington
Originally Posted By: Propflux01


http://hallicino.hubpages.com/hub/American_Vs_Metric_Cruisers


The HD may still not be "your" type of bike, but it seems they are not that bad either, contrary to your opinions.


Funny article.

Quote:
The target for these first Vulcans, Shadows, Intruders and Viragos were the elusive Sportster look, long, thin, raked and mean. What the Japanese stylists came up with their first mid-Eighties efforts at creating a Metric Cruiser Look was fiddly, incoherent, lumpy, cliched and far too compact. I stated in my editorial that "The Kawasaki execs should just buy a Harley and send it down to the styling department with a note attached 'Copy This Down To The Bolts'."


If you have ever ridden a Kawasaki VN750 Vulcan, it is a competent machine. It handles well for a cruiser. The engine has a nice steady "thrum" to it. Not an intrusive numbing vibration, a reassuring presence. And when you twisted the right grip, it would run away from Harley Davidsons.

I think the name "Vulcan" was appropriate. It looked like something designed by Mr Spock. LOL Not anything from this planet.


No apologies....it is not a pretty bike. Good machine, bad style

And that was what Kawasaki was. The 454 LTD was similarly styled but it was a great riding machine. It could nip at the heels of the 4 cylinder 500cc Honda V30 Magna.
(Eliminators excepted...the the ZL900 and 1000s were great looking and quick)

Honda's Shadows weren't quite so ugly and they were good riding bikes. If I remember correctly, the Shadow 700 could run the 1/4 mile in 12.9.
The current Shadow 750 is a lot closer to the "look" but now runs a 15.3. Driven by a chain instead of a shaft and it is almost 2.5 seconds slower.

I liked the Yamaha Viragos. Very pleasant machines. Simple air-cooled 2 valve per cylinder OHC v twins. (widely rumored to have been a discarded Harley Davidson engine design shrug ) Good riding bikes. The 750 could run the 1/4 in the mid to high 13s. Ugly as a mud fence.

Something happened when they started to "get closer to the mark of a truly righteous ride". Something bad.
Remember the 500 Shadow? Rode and looked like a Honda VT500 Ascot with a stepped seat and pull back bars. Freeway? no problem. You had better have a serious freakin' car if you plan to drag race against the littlest Shadow. Fast forward to the Shadow VLX. Style is closer but it is a pain to ride on the freeway. It'll buzz your hands numb at 70 and puts all your weight square on your coccyx. 100 extra ccs and it is noticeably slower. 0-60mph is something like 8 seconds now.

I can only hope that the newest middleweight Harley Davidsons ride and perform as well as '80s Japanese cruisers did. I don't expect much though.
_________________________
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#3202616 - 12/01/13 06:35 AM Re: HD introduces 2 new bikes [Re: BigCahuna]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 4096
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
It's funny I've never heard anyone brag saying, my bike looks and sounds just like a suzuki.Except maybe you?.,,,



Hahahaha!! Seems true on the surface. However, my SV1000s with Yosh pipes and the quiet inserts, sounds great!! Everybody loves the sound of it. So, maybe that's not as true as it would at first seem.



Edited by Cujet (12/01/13 06:38 AM)
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#3202646 - 12/01/13 07:41 AM Re: HD introduces 2 new bikes [Re: JetStar]
BigCahuna Offline


Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 1220
Loc: Deep in the heart of Jersey
Anyone can make a suzuki sound like a suzuki.It would be more impressive if you could make a Harley sound like a suzuki.,,,

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#3202670 - 12/01/13 08:17 AM Re: HD introduces 2 new bikes [Re: grampi]
whip Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 1527
Loc: ohio
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: grampi
That's because they don't do long term testing....if they did it would show the Corolla was more reliable and requires fewer repairs over a longer lifespan than the vehicles you mentioned...

More so than a Honda? I'd say it's about even.
I know guys that have very high mileage Harleys. They are low maintenance, and easy to fix. ironically, They're low maintenance and easy to fix for the same reasons you criticize them. They're simple designs. How is that bad?


It's not a bad thing...and I've personally seen very high mileage metrics (300K+)...

I think you just made my point. A simple design can be a good thing, and they are comparable to metrics. Can you just admit that HD's are good at what they do?

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#3202692 - 12/01/13 09:00 AM Re: HD introduces 2 new bikes [Re: jek388]
grampi Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 3467
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: jek388
Motorcycles are largely an emotional choice since most riders are using them for recreation as opposed to daily transportation.
I've owned four HD's and enjoyed each one for it's intended purpose.
If you choose to spend your time riding around in a Corolla feeling unhappy about what others ride for fun, by all means, feel free to do so.




I use my Corolla to tow my bike and it works quite well...and my bike more than keeps me happy thank you...

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#3202709 - 12/01/13 09:30 AM Re: HD introduces 2 new bikes [Re: Propflux01]
grampi Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 3467
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
Originally Posted By: grampi

I've yet to see HDs compare favorably in such comparisons...


Well, Get your reading glasses, click on some links, and start reading just a few examples provided:

http://www.ridermagazine.com/road-tests/...dge-review.htm/
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/10/10474/Motorcycle-Article/2011-Bagger-Cruiser-Shootout.aspx
http://hallicino.hubpages.com/hub/American_Vs_Metric_Cruisers
http://www.cycleworld.com/2010/08/18/har...omparison-test/

The HD may still not be "your" type of bike, but it seems they are not that bad either, contrary to your opinions.


These articles do seem to have the HDs fairing a bit better than in other comparos I've seen...the 3rd link was basically an op-ed by someone who is clearly "HD leaning", so hardly objective...the others are conspicuously omitting all Goldwing models, and the Vic Cross Country and Vision. I respectfully disagree with some of what was written in the Cycle World article as I have ridden both that HD and that Vic...the driveline was much smoother on the Vic as was the engine...and how 'bout some comparisons between some of the big HD non-baggers (103s and 110s) vs some big metric cruisers like the Raider, Stryker, M109R, Vic Hammer, Honda F6B...even some of the now discontinued metrics like the VTX, V2K Vulcan, Road Warrior, would be more than comparable to any of the HDs...you should be thanking the metrics for forcing HD out of the old, dark AMF days...had they not done that, HD would've folded altogether....


Edited by grampi (12/01/13 09:36 AM)

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#3202711 - 12/01/13 09:32 AM Re: HD introduces 2 new bikes [Re: BigCahuna]
grampi Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 3467
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Anyone can make a suzuki sound like a suzuki.It would be more impressive if you could make a Harley sound like a suzuki.,,,


You keep clinging to the "sound" thing cuz that's all you got...

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#3202713 - 12/01/13 09:33 AM Re: HD introduces 2 new bikes [Re: Cujet]
grampi Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 3467
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
It's funny I've never heard anyone brag saying, my bike looks and sounds just like a suzuki.Except maybe you?.,,,



Hahahaha!! Seems true on the surface. However, my SV1000s with Yosh pipes and the quiet inserts, sounds great!! Everybody loves the sound of it. So, maybe that's not as true as it would at first seem.



HD folks think they have the market cornered on the sound thing, but I've heard several bikes that sound better...a V-Max with aftermarkets is one that comes to mind...

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#3202716 - 12/01/13 09:43 AM Re: HD introduces 2 new bikes [Re: whip]
grampi Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 3467
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: grampi
That's because they don't do long term testing....if they did it would show the Corolla was more reliable and requires fewer repairs over a longer lifespan than the vehicles you mentioned...

More so than a Honda? I'd say it's about even.
I know guys that have very high mileage Harleys. They are low maintenance, and easy to fix. ironically, They're low maintenance and easy to fix for the same reasons you criticize them. They're simple designs. How is that bad?


It's not a bad thing...and I've personally seen very high mileage metrics (300K+)...

I think you just made my point. A simple design can be a good thing, and they are comparable to metrics. Can you just admit that HD's are good at what they do?


Anything is comparable to anything as comparing is a verb, meaning it's something that's done by someone...HOW things compare is what matters, and though HDs are routinely compared to other makes, they come up on the short end more often than not...and yes, HD is very good at what they do...selling an image...

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#3202726 - 12/01/13 09:53 AM Re: HD introduces 2 new bikes [Re: grampi]
BigCahuna Offline


Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 1220
Loc: Deep in the heart of Jersey
Originally Posted By: grampi


Anything is comparable to anything as comparing is a verb, meaning it's something that's done by someone...HOW things compare is what matters, and though HDs are routinely compared to other makes, they come up on the short end more often than not...and yes, HD is very good at what they do...selling an image...
And outselling suzuki's.,,

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#3202732 - 12/01/13 09:59 AM Re: HD introduces 2 new bikes [Re: BigCahuna]
grampi Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 3467
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: grampi


Anything is comparable to anything as comparing is a verb, meaning it's something that's done by someone...HOW things compare is what matters, and though HDs are routinely compared to other makes, they come up on the short end more often than not...and yes, HD is very good at what they do...selling an image...
And outselling suzuki's.,,


Sales #s do not = a better machine....

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#3202762 - 12/01/13 10:41 AM Re: HD introduces 2 new bikes [Re: grampi]
Propflux01 Offline


Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 3088
Loc: Arkansastan
Originally Posted By: grampi

These articles do seem to have the HDs fairing a bit better than in other comparos I've seen...the 3rd link was basically an op-ed by someone who is clearly "HD leaning", so hardly objective...the others are conspicuously omitting all Goldwing models, and the Vic Cross Country and Vision. I respectfully disagree with some of what was written in the Cycle World article as I have ridden both that HD and that Vic...the driveline was much smoother on the Vic as was the engine...and how 'bout some comparisons between some of the big HD non-baggers (103s and 110s) vs some big metric cruisers like the Raider, Stryker, M109R, Vic Hammer, Honda F6B...even some of the now discontinued metrics like the VTX, V2K Vulcan, Road Warrior, would be more than comparable to any of the HDs...you should be thanking the metrics for forcing HD out of the old, dark AMF days...had they not done that, HD would've folded altogether....


I only put a couple links down because I wasn't spending all night linking something you can clearly find yourself. My point was there are plenty articles comparing many different bikes to HD's, and the HD's usually fair very well. I feel it would be moot to try to link any more, as is seems all you will do if you cannot agree to the review is to consider the reviewer or the link/magazine biased. As for "thanking the metrics", they had nothing to do with bringing HD out of AMF. Metrics of that time period compared nothing to anything HD was putting out at the time, they were two totally different style of bikes, the Japanese with their 4 cyl inline standards, and HD with their 'sticking with older American retro design". That is, until HD's V-Twin cruiser popularity started to spring up all the metric clones.

As for GW's vs Electra Glides? Well, if I want a very nicely made Japanese bike, with great quality and looks, with quiet engine, and the feeling that I am riding in a Honda Accord with no roof or windows, then a Gold wing is it.

If I want a very nicely made American bike, with great quality and looks, with a rumbly, distinct sounding/feeling engine, with 4 cylinders LESS than the aforementioned GW, and a feeling that I am actually ON a motorcycle, then Electra-Glide, it is
_________________________
2013 Hyundai Elantra- both killed by tornado
2013 Hyundai Elantra GT

A 55 Gallon Drum And A Shovel Can Solve A lot of Life's Little "Problems"

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#3202794 - 12/01/13 11:11 AM Re: HD introduces 2 new bikes [Re: grampi]
whip Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 1527
Loc: ohio
Originally Posted By: grampi

Anything is comparable to anything as comparing is a verb, meaning it's something that's done by someone...HOW things compare is what matters, and though HDs are routinely compared to other makes, they come up on the short end more often than not...and yes, HD is very good at what they do...selling an image...

I can never tell if your talking about a Harley or a Toyota. I find it incredibly strange how you hold yourself to different standards than you hold other motorcyclist to.

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#3202795 - 12/01/13 11:12 AM Re: HD introduces 2 new bikes [Re: grampi]
Spazdog Offline


Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 5492
Loc: Arlington
Originally Posted By: grampi


the 3rd link was basically an op-ed by someone who is clearly "HD leaning", so hardly objective...


It was a humorous article, but there was little about the substance of the bikes. It was all about styling.

Back in the '80s, if I pulled up alongside a VT1100C Shadow in the staging lanes on my '81 GPz550, I had to worry about whether or not I was going to beat him.

Fast forward a 20 years. I pull up alongside a Vulcan 1500. No worries. He's got almost 4X the displacement and he is going to see nothing but the disappearing taillight of my 400.

It's not just the performance. They were good riding bikes. Essentially UJMs with pullback bars, V-twins, and stepped seats. No, they didn't look like a 1985 Ironhead Sportster. Fortunately they didn't ride like one either. Or break down like one.
_________________________
2005 Mazda 6S hatchback - Mobil Super 5000 5W20
2005 Chrysler PT Cruiser GT - QSUD 5W30

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#3202808 - 12/01/13 11:30 AM Re: HD introduces 2 new bikes [Re: Propflux01]
grampi Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 3467
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
Originally Posted By: grampi

These articles do seem to have the HDs fairing a bit better than in other comparos I've seen...the 3rd link was basically an op-ed by someone who is clearly "HD leaning", so hardly objective...the others are conspicuously omitting all Goldwing models, and the Vic Cross Country and Vision. I respectfully disagree with some of what was written in the Cycle World article as I have ridden both that HD and that Vic...the driveline was much smoother on the Vic as was the engine...and how 'bout some comparisons between some of the big HD non-baggers (103s and 110s) vs some big metric cruisers like the Raider, Stryker, M109R, Vic Hammer, Honda F6B...even some of the now discontinued metrics like the VTX, V2K Vulcan, Road Warrior, would be more than comparable to any of the HDs...you should be thanking the metrics for forcing HD out of the old, dark AMF days...had they not done that, HD would've folded altogether....


I only put a couple links down because I wasn't spending all night linking something you can clearly find yourself. My point was there are plenty articles comparing many different bikes to HD's, and the HD's usually fair very well. I feel it would be moot to try to link any more, as is seems all you will do if you cannot agree to the review is to consider the reviewer or the link/magazine biased. As for "thanking the metrics", they had nothing to do with bringing HD out of AMF. Metrics of that time period compared nothing to anything HD was putting out at the time, they were two totally different style of bikes, the Japanese with their 4 cyl inline standards, and HD with their 'sticking with older American retro design". That is, until HD's V-Twin cruiser popularity started to spring up all the metric clones.

As for GW's vs Electra Glides? Well, if I want a very nicely made Japanese bike, with great quality and looks, with quiet engine, and the feeling that I am riding in a Honda Accord with no roof or windows, then a Gold wing is it.

If I want a very nicely made American bike, with great quality and looks, with a rumbly, distinct sounding/feeling engine, with 4 cylinders LESS than the aforementioned GW, and a feeling that I am actually ON a motorcycle, then Electra-Glide, it is


Whether you want to admit it or not, the metrics forced HD to build better machines...people simply were not buying HDs back in the AMF days because they were junk...people were buying metrics in droves and HD knew they had to improve or close up shop...

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