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#3199693 - 11/27/13 01:23 PM 2013 Jetta Diesel
jdw1222 Offline


Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 116
Loc: Myrtle Beach
my brother has a new jetta with the diesel motor. I know they get the first several oil changes for free from dealer, every 10k.

Someone told them the needed to get the oil changed on there own between these 10K intervals. so basically get the oil changed every 5k, and paying for every other time. This seems excessive to me. 10K on a quality oil should be no issue at all, especially if that's what is recommended by the manufacture. ANy thoughts?

Also, what is the recommended oil. I just assumed you could run any diesel oil, but it looks like this motor takes a specific rated 5-30?

thank!!
_________________________
2005 F-250 6.0 Powerstroke, Amsoil Bypasss System

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#3199694 - 11/27/13 01:27 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: jdw1222]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 24724
Loc: Illinoistan
Originally Posted By: jdw1222
10K on a quality oil should be no issue at all, especially if that's what is recommended by the manufacture. ANy thoughts?

In general, I'd agree. The only time where 10K might be too much is if he's doing a lot of short tripping.


Quote:

Also, what is the recommended oil. I just assumed you could run any diesel oil, but it looks like this motor takes a specific rated 5-30?

It needs an oil meeting VW 504 00 / 507 00 spec.
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'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
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#3199697 - 11/27/13 01:29 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: jdw1222]
stephen9666 Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 2427
Loc: USA
VW usually has a specific spec for oils to meet. I assume that spec correlates with their recommended oil change interval.

I don't look for VW approved oils for our Beetle, though, since I don't think it's really necessary in the 2.0. I just use whatever oil is on sale and the old 2-point-slow keeps chugging along.

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#3199747 - 11/27/13 02:11 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: jdw1222]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 4016
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
The TDI forums have a number of interesting oil threads. Many of the members choose high quality oils and go for even longer than the 10,000 mile mark. From the few UOA's I saw, I'd avoid doing that at all costs. The oil has a high particulate count at that point.

Also, it's clearly known that many VW dealerships put in oils not specifically spec'd for the TDI's. Even today!

While the newer TDI engines are reliable, the risk of using junk oil, for extended drain intervals is too high for my tastes. I'd choose a quality synthetic and change more regularly.
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Turbo's rule.

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#3199753 - 11/27/13 02:14 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: jdw1222]
Sonataman Offline


Registered: 01/15/12
Posts: 260
Loc: Ga
I looked at quite a few of the UOA's on the TDI's and most all that ran the long interval had high wear metals. As soon as they trimmed it back the numbers went down a good bit.
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2011 Hyundai Sonata
1994 KLX686
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#3199766 - 11/27/13 02:26 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: jdw1222]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 13180
Loc: Upstate NY
What is the sump capacity?
_________________________
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0 - PP & M1
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins - Rotella T6 & M1
Amsoil ATF in both vehicles & Magnefine filter.

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#3199794 - 11/27/13 02:52 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: Donald]
skyactiv Offline


Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 526
Loc: The Midwest
Originally Posted By: Donald
What is the sump capacity?


4.5 quarts for that TDI including filter.
VW side-note of interest: The new 2014 jetta 1.8 TSI specs 6.76 quarts.

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#3199815 - 11/27/13 03:16 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: jdw1222]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 13180
Loc: Upstate NY
The way trucks get many many miles on an oil change is the much larger sump capacity.
_________________________
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0 - PP & M1
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins - Rotella T6 & M1
Amsoil ATF in both vehicles & Magnefine filter.

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#3199884 - 11/27/13 04:40 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: Donald]
Cardenio327 Offline


Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 474
Loc: Oaxaca, Mexico
Originally Posted By: Donald
The way trucks get many many miles on an oil change is the much larger sump capacity.


+1

44 quarts on most of the ones I've been around.
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#3199909 - 11/27/13 04:56 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: jdw1222]
blackman777 Offline


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 981
Loc: Santa Ana, California
Originally Posted By: jdw1222
so basically get the oil changed every 5k, and paying for every other time. This seems excessive to me.

Not when you consider Common Rail TDIs have a tendency to explode their fuel pump (and incur $9000 of damage). It's worthwhile to keep that thing well-lubricated. It's also worthwhile to put lubricity additive to the fuel. And absolutely no gasoline. No even one drop (that too will explode the pump).

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#3200118 - 11/27/13 09:03 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: jdw1222]
Scout1 Offline


Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Seattle WA
For what your brother paid for that car, I'd go with the 5k changes. I know, I know, 10k is possible and probably more but sheesh, an oil change is so cheap compared to that nice motor... I've had this same debate with my buddy with a SC Mini Cooper and "free" 10k oil changes. Cars are expensive, oil is not.

I think the dealers should give you X number of oil changes so you could come in when you want.
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Scout1
Truth will always bear up against falsehood, as oil does above water

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#3200300 - 11/28/13 07:22 AM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: Scout1]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 4016
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
Originally Posted By: Scout1
For what your brother paid for that car, I'd go with the 5k changes. I know, I know, 10k is possible and probably more but sheesh, an oil change is so cheap compared to that nice motor... I've had this same debate with my buddy with a SC Mini Cooper and "free" 10k oil changes. Cars are expensive, oil is not.

I think the dealers should give you X number of oil changes so you could come in when you want.


Agreed. In fact, I'd suggest working with the dealer to do the 3 free changes at 5000 mile intervals. And, to ensure they use the right oil, 2 to 1, they don't. Those engines are exceedingly expensive to repair. Avoiding quality oil to save money makes zero sense.
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Turbo's rule.

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#3200815 - 11/28/13 08:05 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: blackman777]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1666
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: jdw1222
so basically get the oil changed every 5k, and paying for every other time. This seems excessive to me.

Not when you consider Common Rail TDIs have a tendency to explode their fuel pump (and incur $9000 of damage). It's worthwhile to keep that thing well-lubricated. It's also worthwhile to put lubricity additive to the fuel. And absolutely no gasoline. No even one drop (that too will explode the pump).


Who told you that?

More people have no issue with common rail diesels and never have any injector or fuel pump problems

Wonder how many of these vehicles that have suffered a failure have been partly misfuelled in their life and instead of getting the tank drained they owner just topped off with diesel

Or are the kind of owner that uses the cheapest supermsrket diesel which has the bare minimum additives

And have certsinly never used any kind of injector cleaner or fuel system cleaner to help keep things running nicely

Were they up to date with maintenance such as fuel filter?

I get it you may not be keen on small turbo diesels but lets keep it factual

What vehicle needs $9000 spent on the fuel system?

Petrol contamination will certainly reduce the lubrication of the fuel system but explode the pump?


Edited by bigjl (11/28/13 08:06 PM)
_________________________
06 Clio1.5DCi,124k 6kOCI Shell Extra 5w40
08 Pathfinder 2.5 Dci 122k 5kOCI Castrol Edge FST 5w30
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 108k 8kOCI Mob 1 ESP 5w30

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#3200826 - 11/28/13 08:12 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: jdw1222]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1666
Loc: London, England
Small highly tuned intercooled turbo diesel is relatively hard on the oil

It is very common in the UK to do an extra oil change at half way especially if the vehicle is used in severe service like taxi work or short journeys.

Manufacturers need to reduce servicing costs to make their product stack up to fleet managers etc

As the filter will essily last 10k i would probably just change the oil at half way

And stick to the oil specs as these engines and the turbo are easy to ruin.
_________________________
06 Clio1.5DCi,124k 6kOCI Shell Extra 5w40
08 Pathfinder 2.5 Dci 122k 5kOCI Castrol Edge FST 5w30
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 108k 8kOCI Mob 1 ESP 5w30

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#3200884 - 11/28/13 09:58 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: jdw1222]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 4016
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
One thing to keep in mind. Just because the exhaust is clean, does not mean the engine operates in an internally cleaner manner. With high rates of EGR flow and common diesel contaminates, the oil gets dirty quickly.

Pull all that exhaust treatment stuff off and these engines really have an awful exhaust smell, exactly as you might expect.
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Turbo's rule.

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#3201661 - 11/29/13 09:42 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: Sonataman]
rhhsiao Online   content


Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 96
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: Cujet
The TDI forums have a number of interesting oil threads. Many of the members choose high quality oils and go for even longer than the 10,000 mile mark. From the few UOA's I saw, I'd avoid doing that at all costs. The oil has a high particulate count at that point.

Also, it's clearly known that many VW dealerships put in oils not specifically spec'd for the TDI's. Even today!

While the newer TDI engines are reliable, the risk of using junk oil, for extended drain intervals is too high for my tastes. I'd choose a quality synthetic and change more regularly.
Originally Posted By: Sonataman
I looked at quite a few of the UOA's on the TDI's and most all that ran the long interval had high wear metals. As soon as they trimmed it back the numbers went down a good bit.


I'm not sure where this is all coming from. As a TDI owner and follower of the TDI club forums, the consensus is that for a majority of owners, a 10k OCI on VW 507 certified oil is perfectly fine and depending on driving style could go longer. It also often takes upwards of 50,000 miles of driving before the engine fully "breaks in" and wear metals are at a consistent level which for these common rail diesels is higher than the previous ones from VW (iron is often 30+ppm). For the OP, just ensure the dealer is using the proper VW 507, which is most often the Castrol SLX Professional LL03 if you utilize the free changes. Many use the same once the free changes are used up or switch to Mobil 1 Esp 5w-30 or TopTech 4200. There's also Pennzoil Ultra Euro L.


Edited by rhhsiao (11/29/13 09:48 PM)
Edit Reason: Fixed a word; grammar

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#3201898 - 11/30/13 08:57 AM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: jdw1222]
jdw1222 Offline


Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 116
Loc: Myrtle Beach
Thanks for the replies!
_________________________
2005 F-250 6.0 Powerstroke, Amsoil Bypasss System

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#3202015 - 11/30/13 10:44 AM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: bigjl]
blackman777 Offline


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 981
Loc: Santa Ana, California
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Not when you consider Common Rail TDIs have a tendency to explode their fuel pump (and incur $9000 of damage). It's worthwhile to keep that thing well-lubricated. It's also worthwhile to put lubricity additive to the fuel. And absolutely no gasoline. No even one drop (that too will explode the pump).
Who told you that?

The NHTSA and their ongoing consumer-protection investigation. And of course it's well-documented across the net, like VWvortex and TDIclub. As for the $9000, the pump exploding sends shrapnel throughout the VW engine, which requires extensive repair (mainly cleaning-out the bits by a mechanic).

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#3202304 - 11/30/13 05:13 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: blackman777]
rhhsiao Online   content


Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 96
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Not when you consider Common Rail TDIs have a tendency to explode their fuel pump (and incur $9000 of damage). It's worthwhile to keep that thing well-lubricated. It's also worthwhile to put lubricity additive to the fuel. And absolutely no gasoline. No even one drop (that too will explode the pump).
Who told you that?

The NHTSA and their ongoing consumer-protection investigation. And of course it's well-documented across the net, like VWvortex and TDIclub. As for the $9000, the pump exploding sends shrapnel throughout the VW engine, which requires extensive repair (mainly cleaning-out the bits by a mechanic).




It doesn't always cost $9k. It depends greatly on the dealer and a large number of people who have had the high pressure fuel pump go, end up having VW pay for the replacement with little to no cost to the owner. As for being "well-documented", only a small percentage of all the common rail diesels sold in north America have had issues. There are plenty of owners on the forums you mention as having no issues at all even without using a lubricity additive for potential protection.

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#3202703 - 12/01/13 09:19 AM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: jdw1222]
blackman777 Offline


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 981
Loc: Santa Ana, California
Well I advise adding lubricity to VW CR-TDI fuel for the same reason I advise Toyota owners of the sludge-prone engine (or Honda owners of VCM engine) to run the best oil. There's a known problem, one important enough to warrant government investigation, so might as well take extra precaution.

Also: VW has been acting like Toyota did with their 1998-2007 sludge engine: Denying engine warranties. VW instructs dealers to pour a sample of fuel into a styrofoam cup and if the cup dissolves, your warranty is voided on the spot. It's ridiculous & unscientific but typical or how megacorps act.

Yeah okay.....
I admit that I view corporations the same way I view politicians. That's because they have repeatedly demonstrated themselves unworthy of my trust.



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#3203265 - 12/01/13 07:30 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: blackman777]
rhhsiao Online   content


Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 96
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Well I advise adding lubricity to VW CR-TDI fuel for the same reason I advise Toyota owners of the sludge-prone engine (or Honda owners of VCM engine) to run the best oil. There's a known problem, one important enough to warrant government investigation, so might as well take extra precaution.



I can definitely agree with that. I always run a 4oz shot of Power Service Diesel Kleen whenever I fill up.

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#3204997 - 12/03/13 01:33 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: blackman777]
Bangagong Offline


Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Also: VW has been acting like Toyota did with their 1998-2007 sludge engine: Denying engine warranties. VW instructs dealers to pour a sample of fuel into a styrofoam cup and if the cup dissolves, your warranty is voided on the spot. It's ridiculous & unscientific but typical or how megacorps act.
I own a 2010 CR Jetta and absolutely love it (only 56K miles so far though). If I misfueled with gasoline, I would not expect VW to replace my destroyed HPFP and fuel system/injectors/etc. The current experience with HPFP failures being reported on forums is that VW is replacing the fuel delivery system at no cost to the owner. As insurance, I do use a fuel additive.
_________________________
2010 Jetta TDi - 2012 Challenger SRT8 - 2001 Viper - 2009 Moto Guzzi Griso

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#3215057 - 12/12/13 10:52 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: rhhsiao]
maineiac Offline


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 9
Loc: United States


[/quote]

I can definitely agree with that. I always run a 4oz shot of Power Service Diesel Kleen whenever I fill up. [/quote]

You are talking about a car that requires an oil with an ash content that is insufferably low - 0.6 IIRC - to protect the DPF. You guys are putting stuff like this directly into the combustion chamber and therefore exhaust stream (as opposed to this strictly classified oil, which is only burned in minute qualities and then only as a residual of the lubrication process)? Do you have reliable information that would lead you to believe that this is OK for your DPF?

BTW, if you are concerned with lubricity and are confident that this stuff is DPF-safe, you'd be much better off with an additive that actually meaningfully enhances lubricity, like Opti-Lube.

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#3215426 - 12/13/13 11:03 AM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: maineiac]
rhhsiao Online   content


Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 96
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: maineiac




I can definitely agree with that. I always run a 4oz shot of Power Service Diesel Kleen whenever I fill up. [/quote]

You are talking about a car that requires an oil with an ash content that is insufferably low - 0.6 IIRC - to protect the DPF. You guys are putting stuff like this directly into the combustion chamber and therefore exhaust stream (as opposed to this strictly classified oil, which is only burned in minute qualities and then only as a residual of the lubrication process)? Do you have reliable information that would lead you to believe that this is OK for your DPF?

BTW, if you are concerned with lubricity and are confident that this stuff is DPF-safe, you'd be much better off with an additive that actually meaningfully enhances lubricity, like Opti-Lube.[/quote]

To answer your first question, my answer is three fold. First off, there are many, many individuals using Power Service with no ill effects on the their DPF as pointed out on a dedicated TDI forum such as TDIClub. Is this a large sample that would stand up to scientific, statistical scrutiny? Maybe not, but there is very good anecdotal evidence to suggest that using Power Service is not harmful to the DPF. Second, there is actually an individual running two-cycle oil in his TDI and actively checking the ash load of his DPF as an experiment. Two-cycle is definitely well known for producing high ash content relative to the prescribed oil. His DPF is not having issues as of yet. Thirdly, Power Service themselves have stated that the use of their product is not an issue in vehicles with a DPF.

As for your second point, it is a false statement. The only truly proven "additive" that "meaningfully enhances lubricity" is bio-diesel. The only study produced that shows Opti-Lube as providing any lubricity benefit is often known as the "Spicer Report". Unfortunately, while this may or may not be a good study in of itself, I prefer having more than just one data set and Opti-Lube doesn't have any data themselves to show whether it is actually providing a lubricity benefit. Power Service actively tests their product using a HFRR rig and data is available from them. It definitely shows that their product consistently provides increased lubricity. Do some research.

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#3216528 - 12/14/13 02:05 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: blackman777]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1666
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Not when you consider Common Rail TDIs have a tendency to explode their fuel pump (and incur $9000 of damage). It's worthwhile to keep that thing well-lubricated. It's also worthwhile to put lubricity additive to the fuel. And absolutely no gasoline. No even one drop (that too will explode the pump).
Who told you that?

The NHTSA and their ongoing consumer-protection investigation. And of course it's well-documented across the net, like VWvortex and TDIclub. As for the $9000, the pump exploding sends shrapnel throughout the VW engine, which requires extensive repair (mainly cleaning-out the bits by a mechanic).




Yes i do know what happens in the very rare circumstance of a failure in a common rail diesel engine.

We have had them in huge numbers in Europe for many many years.

And as your links seem to refer to VAG vehicles i am not sure why you feel the need to consider all common rail diesels problematic.

Especially as it is well known that VAG diesels are not as robust as their reputation may infer. Good PR is a valuable asset.

Also internet forums tend to exaggerate issues as lots of people only visit forums when there is an issue.
_________________________
06 Clio1.5DCi,124k 6kOCI Shell Extra 5w40
08 Pathfinder 2.5 Dci 122k 5kOCI Castrol Edge FST 5w30
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 108k 8kOCI Mob 1 ESP 5w30

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#3216918 - 12/14/13 10:19 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: rhhsiao]
maineiac Offline


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 9
Loc: United States
Let's understand more clearly what you are attempting to assert:

1. Because some anonymous internet-source TDI club members have used an additive with "no apparent" negative consequences to their DPF, that constitutes, in your words, "very good anecdotal evidence". Ok, and I am a french model. And another anonymous "self-anointed internet engineer" goes even further and burns two cycle oil and "proves" that it doesn't harm his DPF. That's great to know, so presumably ash content of exhaust doesn't matter. Kinda makes you wonder what the fuss is with 505/507 cert. oils, huh? Now I am a french model who has had great luck with PFTE oil additives and STP oil treatment ;-) BTW: great for you to tell us that Power Service has stated that their product has no negative effect on DPFs -now there's an unbiased souce that I'd trust my expensive DPF to. Finally, I am a french model... just ask me for confirmation of that fact.

2. The Spicer report is here and provides interesting reading for those who have an interest in the lubricity impact of various diesel additives:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1784831

If you have any even semi-credible information regarding lubricity that either refutes the conclusions of this study or impugns the credibility of this study (as you seem to claim), please share it with us. And please let us know why, in your expert opinion, BTW, did Power Service compare lubricity impacts of other manufacturers products? If not, pray tell what use is their "unbiased" testing of their own product? Your comment regarding biodiesel "being the only truly proven "additive" that "meaningfully enhances lubricity" is absolute poppycock. Exactly where do you get this kind of stuff? And I am still a french model ;-)

I'd suggest YOU do some research, but given your comments, above, well, I'll just hold that thought. Quoting anecdotal and anonymous comments on a net forum doesn't constitute research nor does it provide reasonable justification for owners of these cars to risk their very expensive DPFs to internet quackery. Maybe we have a lot to learn from you, but you haven't made much of a case for that here.



Edited by maineiac (12/14/13 10:21 PM)

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#3217022 - 12/15/13 04:06 AM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: jdw1222]
rhhsiao Online   content


Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 96
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
1) I never said any of what I mentioned was "proof" of anything. You asked if there was "reliable information to believe that this is OK for your DPF" (your exact words) in regards to the use of diesel additives. I offered what I believed to be reasonably reliable information from a community of individuals whose interests were in the space of looking for and using the best products for their specific vehicles (sound familiar?). I offered the example of someone using a product that is well known to increase the ash content of exhaust not to say that we ought to ignore the need to be careful of that ash content, but rather that these DPFs are definitely engineered to withstand some level of punishment beyond what would be manufacturer recommended for the care and feeding of your car. It is a piece of evidence that suggests it is possible to use something such as an additive, which the producer states is safe for a DPF, when taken in conjunction with other information out there. Is there absolute, 100% definitive proof that everything will be golden? I never said there was, but for some reason, what I choose to do with my car is somehow offensive to you. Obviously if you feel there is evidence that the use of an additive such as Diesel Kleen from Power Service is harmful to the DPF of my car, I would definitely love to see it so that I may do what is best for my car. We are all definitely enthusiasts when it comes to our cars.

2) Let's unpack this point a bit; there's a lot to cover. The Spicer report is definitely an interesting read. I never said it wasn't. The point I was making was that you claimed, assuming diesel additives are safe for the DPF, I would "be much better off with an additive that actually meaningfully enhances lubricity, like Opti-Lube" (your exact words). The only evidence out there that even remotely suggests that claim is true, is the Spicer report. However, assuming you believe the Spicer report to be a completely valid study, look at what product actually reduced the micron wear scar the most. The answer in that study is bio-diesel. Beyond that, a simple Google search for "lubricity of biodiesel" will bring up numerous scholarly articles that consistently show the use of biodiesel, whether running it straight or as an additive to regular diesel fuel, will significantly increase the lubricity of the fuel. Here's a few links to get you started:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016236108004766

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ef049684c

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=15106716

Now, one of the main issues that has been raised with Spicer report is that the testing they did was on raw, untreated diesel fuel from the refinery. Why does that matter? The reason is that this type of fuel is not the fuel that regular people would be purchasing to power their cars. As such, a study that relies on the treatment of raw fuel isn't directly applicable to real world driving. It is definitely possible that the results could have been different due to the fact that the chemistry can change when using an additive such as Opti-Lube or Power Service in retail fuel that already contains some sort of lubricity conditioners but alas, I am not a chemical engineer and cannot say for sure. What the report does suggest is that the use of an additive can significantly increase the lubricity of your fuel, but it cannot definitively claim one winner over the other due to the way the study was conducted. Additionally, the testing of the additives in the Spicer report wasn't exactly 100% "unbiased" as one may think. It is from as you might say "some anonymous internet-source". Furthermore, all of the additives in the study were purchased off the shelf, except for one. Care to guess which? My main point from the very beginning, is that this is only a single piece of evidence that requires further study in order to reach a more conclusive answer. That's problematic when Opti-Lube itself doesn't have data available about the lubricity gains that their product may provide.

Additionally, what is wrong with using data directly from a product producer? Is testing conducted by Mobil 1 engineers suddenly unreliable just because it's their own product? Of course not. I also never suggested that we should take them at their word or at face value. Again, it's a piece of evidence building to a larger answer and as I said before, I prefer more than one set of data. If you'd like to see some additional data on lubricity, here's a link that provides some on Power Service that was provided by them:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=196059&highlight=additive

Happy reading.


Edited by rhhsiao (12/15/13 04:10 AM)
Edit Reason: edited a word for grammar

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#3217126 - 12/15/13 08:40 AM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: jdw1222]
HyundaiGuy Offline


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 422
Loc: Orlando, FL
I'm not super familiar with the TDI- I swore off VW nearly 15 years ago.

I remember seeing that many people with TDI engines (don't remember what series) had problems with excessive cam follower wear.

I'd change the oil every 5K. It's cheap insurance.
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'13 Fiat 500 Turbo Gray 25K PU Euro 5W40 OEM Filter (Mine)
'13 Fiat 500 Sport Pearl White 9K PU 5W30 OEM Filter (Hers)

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#3217307 - 12/15/13 11:48 AM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: jdw1222]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1666
Loc: London, England
Cam wear was on the pump duese engines which had individual fuel pumps.

They weren't common rail.

In the UK they started with the old fashioned tdi, progressed to the pd (usually badged tdi with a red i or red di to signify the power output.

And the common rails tended to be badged as CR.

Confusingly there are versions of the 2.0 vag diesel that have 140bhp in PD and CR. All 170bhp 2.0 are CR from what i have seen.

Stick with decent quality fuel and keep on top of fuel filter changes and common rail engines are amoung the most reliable engines around.

A significang proportion of common rails that fail have been neglected and misfuelled at some point.

Biggest issue not being those who fill the tank with petrol and then get it drained properly.

But rather those who put in a litre or so of petrol in and then just topnoff with diesel. The petrol in the mix then causes the fuel pump and injector wear.

Ford/Volvo/PSA Group and Jaguar Land Rover diesels are some of the more reliable, 1.4 and 1.6 excepted. The 2.0 and 2.2 are strong. 3.0v6 twin turbo diesel also nice if a tad complicated
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06 Clio1.5DCi,124k 6kOCI Shell Extra 5w40
08 Pathfinder 2.5 Dci 122k 5kOCI Castrol Edge FST 5w30
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 108k 8kOCI Mob 1 ESP 5w30

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#3217341 - 12/15/13 12:10 PM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: jdw1222]
rhhsiao Online   content


Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 96
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Just to add to that, it was also an issue of the type of oil used. There are also many who use a 5W-40 diesel oil rather than the VW 505.01 rated oils such as Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck or Rotella T6 for longer OCIs. Keep in mind this is only applicable to the Pumpe Duse engines which starting in 2009 was replaced by the common rail diesels. These engines were designed to be used with VW 507 rated oils which currently seem to hold up well in 10k OCIs for the most part. The VW 507 oils look like they're a more robust oil than those used in previous generations in regards to VW rated oils.

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#3218009 - 12/16/13 12:06 AM Re: 2013 Jetta Diesel [Re: jdw1222]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1666
Loc: London, England
The issue of cam wear was spotted in Europe pretty early on after the introduction of the pd engine in higher spec VW models, Seat and Skoda stuck with the older TDi engines.

Several oil companies therefore brought out oils specifically for PD engines, in the same way as they also had Zetec oils for Fords. Castrol even had a Magnatec marked up for Vauxhall.

With the correct oil the Private Hire and Taxi trade regularly put 300k or 400k on Ford/VW or Seat 7seaters with few if any issues.

Most issues were I suspect from low mileage private owners who skimped on maintenance.

I have watched people at Halfords buy the cheapest oil they can see on the shelf, usually GTX and then you see them outside topping off a vehicle that is fairly new so extremely unlikely to be specced for that oil.

The problem is when these vehicles have issues later in their life Internet forums end up full of comments about their PD engine needing a top end rebuild.

As an example a large Private Hire Co in London called Addison Lee has a fleet of about 4000 seven seated vehicles, they use the Ford Galaxy now but used to use the VW Sharan with the 115pd engine.

After a three yr life they often get sold onto owner driver Private Hire drivers, they have at least 100k on them at three years.

You can easily spot them due to the fact they are all black and have a slightly unusual spec (seat colour and inbuilt child seats for example)

There are still many running about on 2006 and 2007 plates.

A mates brother works for the fleet department there and he said the only problems they had were with the autobox, the engines were reliable, they did use the correct oil though and changed the oil at 5k.

Over the years they used them they likely went through 20000 of these vehicles.

He also says the Galaxy with the 2.0 diesel is just as reliable, though the later ones with the Powershift box suffer from slight juddering on pulling away sometimes.
_________________________
06 Clio1.5DCi,124k 6kOCI Shell Extra 5w40
08 Pathfinder 2.5 Dci 122k 5kOCI Castrol Edge FST 5w30
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 108k 8kOCI Mob 1 ESP 5w30

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