Why do you believe in UFOs?

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Originally Posted By: Astro14
The only denial here is the inability to think critically and apply a true scientific understanding to reject unsupportable, untestable, crackpot theories.


ah, the perfect scientific approach, without preconditioned bias.

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
The biggest single problem with these discussions is that they tend to be all about teams -- who's with me and how can I defend them, who's against me and how can I destroy them, etc. As soon as someone decides you fit some kind of label in their mind (conspiracy theorist/debunker/shill/sheeple/whatever), they process everything you say through that lens, and it becomes all but impossible to do anything but make things worse. The object is no longer to find truth; it's to find people who agree with you and defeat those who don't.

This is just how people act when they feel threatened. It takes a TREMENDOUS amount of willpower and maturity to act differently. Completely understandable if you know anything about human social psychology.

That's why I've largely hung back here, except to point out why I think the discussion isn't going to be fruitful. Once people get defensive, it's over -- unless all sides have the wherewithal to calm down. Again, that's understandably difficult when your threat sense has been activated.

I really think the best thing that could happen for this thread is for all of us to leave it be.


I absolutely agree about the us vs them mentality, and the effort it takes to overcome it.
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Originally Posted By: Garak
As for your Examiner link, just look at that page. The "source" is a web page called chemtrailsplanet.net. Good grief.

Oh yeah! ... I knew there was something familiar here. That's another good one.

Apparently you can make them go away by spraying vinegar at them. Simple, easy, effective!


Ahh, good tymes.
 
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Are you suggesting that the HAARP, which is the proper name for ONE "ionospheric heater" or more aptly, directed energy weapon, is the only scalable, high-powered DEW on earth. I mean, I should think so, considering no one cares for the technology..................

This is where we run into trouble here. You're asserting that HARP is a directed energy weapon, without scientific evidence. Beyond that, you're asserting there are others.

What evidence would you accept that would disprove the first statement? What evidence would you accept that would disprove the second statement?

@martinq: I don't know if you saw the GP in Brazil this weekend. Given the high humidity, the F1 cars were leaving "contrails." I'm guessing these were wingtip vortices, but you never know. Bernie is trying to take over Brazil, from what the greys told me over a peanut butter and banana sandwich.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak

This is where we run into trouble here. You're asserting that HARP is a directed energy weapon, without scientific evidence. Beyond that, you're asserting there are others.

What evidence would you accept that would disprove the first statement? What evidence would you accept that would disprove the second statement?

@martinq: I don't know if you saw the GP in Brazil this weekend. Given the high humidity, the F1 cars were leaving "contrails." I'm guessing these were wingtip vortices, but you never know. Bernie is trying to take over Brazil, from what the greys told me over a peanut butter and banana sandwich.


You don't know what HAARP is or how it works, do you?
 
Originally Posted By: martinq

Apparently you can make them go away by spraying vinegar at them. Simple, easy, effective!


LOL spraying vinegar?
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No shortage of stupid people!!! You and I both can laugh at that!!

I've also seen "conspiracy nuts" (the real, genuine nuts) that took pictures of aerosol dumps and said that they were "SYLPHS" cleaning up the chemicals!!! LOLOLOL MY SIDES!!!
Instead of something more practical like aerosol laid in between two shearing layers.


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Look at the aether beings cleaning up the aerosol!!
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Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: Garak
As for your Examiner link, just look at that page. The "source" is a web page called chemtrailsplanet.net. Good grief.

Oh yeah! ... I knew there was something familiar here. That's another good one.

Apparently you can make them go away by spraying vinegar at them. Simple, easy, effective!


Ahh, good tymes.



It's gotten so bad, the chemtrails and HAARP effects are visible in your garden hose!
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These are the people who decided it wasn't worth their time to sit in Earth science class, and now they are all "experts".
 
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: Astro14
The only denial here is the inability to think critically and apply a true scientific understanding to reject unsupportable, untestable, crackpot theories.


ah, the perfect scientific approach, without preconditioned bias.


In fact, despite your intended sarcasm, that is the scientific approach; to test, and to reject the false.

There have been many false theories rejected over the years. Phlogiston, for example (one of my favorites, what a great name), which was rejected when Lavoisier discovered oxygen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phlogiston_theory

Or, perhaps more obscure and yet more powerful, the luminiferous aether, which was rejected when Michelson and Morley conducted their famous interferometer experiment, the results of which got Einstein thinking...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminiferous_aether

Rejection of false theories is simply part of critical thinking. To accept all theories and ideas as equal is just intellectual laziness masquerading as "being open-minded".
 
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Originally Posted By: jrustles

back on topic, these guys are ours


The use of the word "tremendous" shows a clear pre-conception. Without scale, this object can't be sized...it moves like a balloon...but it's size is indeterminate...and it isn't clear at all what the object is...and that makes it...

Wait for it.

An Unidentified Flying Object. A UFO!

Does that mean that it's a gravitic craft from our DOD? Well...that would be one postulate...an outlandish and unsupportable postulate...and I would say that Occam's razor applies...
 
Originally Posted By: refaller
Why is thinking we are the only intelligent life in the universe egotistical if there is no proof to the contrary? Facts have nothing to do with ego. Egotistical is landing on someone else's land and claiming you discovered it:)

ref


The same reason that it was a bit egotistical for people to think the earth was the center of the universe up through most of the 1500s. People generally aren't as smart as they think they are.....ask Copernicus.
 
Indeed - Copernicus represented a critical thinker...he thought critically about what he saw and rejected the false model (earth centric model). He had an open mind, but was clearly able to distinguish the false from the true. Not all ideas have equal merit, or are equally valid...

The publication of his book, De revolutionibus orbium coelestium (On the Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres), shook up the world of thinking...and in fact, is the derivation of our meaning of the word, "Revolution". He meant it in the sense of rotational movement...but it sparked huge transformation in scientific thinking, and now, the word "Revolution" has the added meaning of transformation, of throwing off old ideas...e.g. the French Revolution...

I've been to Torun...visited his birthplace...and seen his statue in the square in the center of town...as an astronomer, I was grateful for the chance to make the trip.
 
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Originally Posted By: Garak
@martinq: I don't know if you saw the GP in Brazil this weekend. Given the high humidity, the F1 cars were leaving "contrails." I'm guessing these were wingtip vortices, but you never know.

I did not but thank you for the report. Nothing good can come of this!
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Indeed - Copernicus represented a critical thinker...he thought critically about what he saw and rejected the false model (earth centric model).

Thanks for these tidbits Astro, really appreciate it!
 
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www.theweatherspace.com. Website is owned by Kevin Martin. He's been a known fraud for 10 years in the weather community. He started Haarpstatus.com after he saw Dutchsinse stealing his web traffic.

Both have been thoroughly debunked; and Kevin has been on the cusp of being sued by NOAA. All out in the public record.

jrustles, you do know all the stuff you post has been hashed out on the internet over the past 5 years, right? You're late to the party bud.

Any video posted by Kevin Martin I immediately classify as [censored] at face value.
 
Youtube videos as proof of conspiracy is an intellectual idiocy.. Anyone can upload anything on Youtube.

If you are a true conspiracy believer, surely you can embrace that concept. Think about it...

ANYONE can upload videos and claim they are this or that.
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

ANYONE can upload videos and claim they are this or that.


and that's one of the greatest things about the connected age we live in, no matter who you are or where you're from yadda yadda
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