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#3197928 - 11/25/13 04:46 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: stchman]
Sunnyinhollister Offline


Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 440
Loc: Hollister, CA
What if every other automaker decided that this was a good way to make money and started doing the same thing? Let's see:

GM $.07/quart
Ford $.06/quart
Chrysler $.08/quart
Honda $.05/quart
Toyota.$.05/quart

And so on.

This could get real ugly for the consumer if the other automakers follow suit. Why should I have to pay $.42 per oil change for a GM oil requirement when I do an oil change in my Jeep? Every quart of oil that has the Dexos stamp on it is inflated by $.07 regardless of the vehicle it is going into. That's just wrong.
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#3197933 - 11/25/13 04:55 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: Sunnyinhollister]
stchman Offline


Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 517
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: Sunnyinhollister
What if every other automaker decided that this was a good way to make money and started doing the same thing? Let's see:

GM $.07/quart
Ford $.06/quart
Chrysler $.08/quart
Honda $.05/quart
Toyota.$.05/quart

And so on.

This could get real ugly for the consumer if the other automakers follow suit. Why should I have to pay $.42 per oil change for a GM oil requirement when I do an oil change in my Jeep? Every quart of oil that has the Dexos stamp on it is inflated by $.07 regardless of the vehicle it is going into. That's just wrong.


Thing is, dexos licensed oils are NOT $0.42 a quart higher, they are on par with non-dexos licensed oils.
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#3197942 - 11/25/13 05:08 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: stchman]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4175
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
^^The reason Valvoline & others aren't knuckling under to GM's Dexos program (scam) is the precedent it would set-having to pay licensing fees to every mfr. under the son would eat into their profits. Considering that Valvoline/Ashland doesn't have any oil reserves of their own & has to buy everything they use, they are at a disadvantage to SOPUS, XOM, etc. already.
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#3197967 - 11/25/13 05:37 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: stchman]
Sunnyinhollister Offline


Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 440
Loc: Hollister, CA
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: Sunnyinhollister
What if every other automaker decided that this was a good way to make money and started doing the same thing? Let's see:

GM $.07/quart
Ford $.06/quart
Chrysler $.08/quart
Honda $.05/quart
Toyota.$.05/quart

And so on.

This could get real ugly for the consumer if the other automakers follow suit. Why should I have to pay $.42 per oil change for a GM oil requirement when I do an oil change in my Jeep? Every quart of oil that has the Dexos stamp on it is inflated by $.07 regardless of the vehicle it is going into. That's just wrong.


Thing is, dexos licensed oils are NOT $0.42 a quart higher, they are on par with non-dexos licensed oils.


I want to use PP in my Jeep for as oil change, I have no choice but to pay the $.42 cents (6 quarts x $.07) extortion fee for a spec my jeep does not need.
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1998 Jeep Wrangler Sport - 4.6L Stroker

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#3197987 - 11/25/13 05:57 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: Sunnyinhollister]
stchman Offline


Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 517
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: Sunnyinhollister
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: Sunnyinhollister
What if every other automaker decided that this was a good way to make money and started doing the same thing? Let's see:

GM $.07/quart
Ford $.06/quart
Chrysler $.08/quart
Honda $.05/quart
Toyota.$.05/quart

And so on.

This could get real ugly for the consumer if the other automakers follow suit. Why should I have to pay $.42 per oil change for a GM oil requirement when I do an oil change in my Jeep? Every quart of oil that has the Dexos stamp on it is inflated by $.07 regardless of the vehicle it is going into. That's just wrong.


Thing is, dexos licensed oils are NOT $0.42 a quart higher, they are on par with non-dexos licensed oils.


I want to use PP in my Jeep for as oil change, I have no choice but to pay the $.42 cents (6 quarts x $.07) extortion fee for a spec my jeep does not need.


Then use Valvoline SynPower. There's nothing magical about Pennzoil Platinum over Valvoline SynPower in your 1998 Jeep Wrangler Sport.

Most of the major oil brands are dexos licensed (Quaker State, Exxon Mobil, Pennzoil, Kendall, Havoline).

I'm quite certain that Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota are looking at the same thing.
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#3197996 - 11/25/13 06:06 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: eljefino]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11756
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: eljefino
It's kind of like blank music CD-Rs with the license fees going to ASCAP. Maybe it's the principle of the thing. I might be recording my garage band on those CD-Rs and am at the same time sending money off to Celene Dion.

OT, but you don't know how bad that is in Canada. CD-Rs are ridiculously more money than DVD-Rs, thanks to the Canadian fee, much of which does, I'm sure, go to Celine. wink
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2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
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#3198114 - 11/25/13 08:01 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: cp3]
HangFire Offline


Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 572
Loc: Central Maryland
Originally Posted By: cp3
Please forgive me for not shedding a tear for the oil companies costs!


Me either. I may shed a few, though, when those costs are passed on to me... with a little extra for their handling fees.

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#3198219 - 11/25/13 09:53 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: stchman]
squeakyg Offline


Registered: 01/14/08
Posts: 3
Loc: ga, us
These complaints are just people with too much time on their hands. Here is a Dexos1 approved oil at 6/$30.00.

Mag1 Dexos1

Analysis says push for 7.5k miles of usage. How could a consumer complain about that? Maybe just maybe some of the people complaining are oil company employees paid to surf the web. Especially popular sites like this one. The others are just loyalist who have been brainwashed into parting with their money. I used to be like that.

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#3198293 - 11/25/13 11:25 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: stchman]
Hyde244 Offline


Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 655
Loc: Ohio
Licensing fees are a perfectly acceptable model of business - I don't see anyone complaining about the even more absurd fees BP, Shell, and Exxon pay to be marked as Top Tier Gasoline.
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#3198314 - 11/26/13 12:10 AM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: stchman]
supercity Offline


Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 894
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
The Penrite 5w30 synthetic that I last used is Dexos 1 licenced and is cheaper than the likes of Durablend that claim DX1 but is not even licenced. It's also almost half the price of M1 5w30 so it's not the Dexos licence that's costing the customer, not in Australia anyway.

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#3198376 - 11/26/13 05:21 AM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: Hyde244]
Capa Offline


Registered: 01/04/10
Posts: 1215
Loc: Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: Hyde244
Licensing fees are a perfectly acceptable model of business - I don't see anyone complaining about the even more absurd fees BP, Shell, and Exxon pay to be marked as Top Tier Gasoline.


There are many states where top tier gas is the exact same price as regular gas and so I'm not so sure how "absurd" the fee is. Furthermore, many oils pay licensing fee after licensing fee but it is not the same with gasoline. The absurdity with gasoline is that any rumor will cause it to spike 10-20 cents in a day and, even when the rumor turns out to be false, the price goes down 1-2 cents every day or two frown

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#3198482 - 11/26/13 08:27 AM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: stchman]
Flareside302 Offline


Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 516
Loc: LaVergne, TN
DEXOS is a money grabbing way of gathering money back for loss of sales of they're own oil. IMO..

Just because an oil isn't DEXOS licensed doesn't mean it doesn't meet spec like some people think..

Just means they don't wanna spend money on the licensing..

All oil suppliers were given the specs to meet DEXOS, so in turn they know if it meets/exceeds or not.. That's why they post it in the bottle
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01 Honda CR-V B20 AWD AMSOIL ATM Sig Series 10w30

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#3198497 - 11/26/13 08:39 AM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: stchman]
Durango Offline


Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 2051
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted By: stchman
I have noticed that a LOT of folks here on this forum seem to take the dexos thing personally.

They complain that dexos is GM strong arming the oil companies into paying them these obscene fees and that the price for a quart of oil will go way up. As a consumer I see no price difference between dexos oils and non-dexos oils. If Valvoline and Amsoil are saving such a boatlod of cash by not paying GM's exorbitant fees, then their oils should be far less expensive. This does not appear to be the case.

Is it because some of the oil religions are being offended? I think so.

I look at it this way, GM is giving a 5 year 100K mile warranty on the drivetrain, they want to make sure people are using quality oil and doing their maintenance when they are supposed to. Trust me, working for 6+ years in the quick lube industry, I have seen more than my share of people that only maintain their car when something goes out. You would shudder at the people that only change the oil when the oil light comes on???!!!!

I don't blame GM for putting restrictions, I would do it as well.


stchman,

Personally I don't mind the Dexos labeling. It appears most quality oils are getting the label on them anyway. Besides that I'm more of a synthetic user myself so that's why I go by my OLM in my GM cars instead of going by mileage.

Durango

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#3198672 - 11/26/13 11:58 AM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: Durango]
zuluplus30 Offline


Registered: 11/23/13
Posts: 78
Loc: Kansas
I don't mind the Dexos spec either. It takes GM's two previous oil specs 6094M and 4718M and combines them into one. The old 6094M was just a change in low temp pumpability and was easily met by almost all conventional oils on the shelf. The 4718M was originally a Corvette spec that required lower NOACK volatility and a cap on oxidation at high temps (which were more stringent than the GF4 specs at the time). It's how GM got away with no oil cooler on the Vette because they were struggling with how to package it in the bumper and plumb it. It later found its way into a myriad of other 6.0/6.2+ applications. Currently, it is near impossible to find a DEXOS oil that isn't at least a synblend, most being a full synthetic. It makes me feel much better about going the full life of the OLM, something I've never done on conventional oil. GM also uses it as a way to tout lower overall TCO when they sell a vehicle, which is something all manufacturers are in too right now. That's all worth $.07 a gallon if you ask me.

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#3198786 - 11/26/13 02:25 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: zuluplus30]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26730
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: zuluplus30
I don't mind the Dexos spec either. It takes GM's two previous oil specs 6094M and 4718M and combines them into one. The old 6094M was just a change in low temp pumpability and was easily met by almost all conventional oils on the shelf. The 4718M was originally a Corvette spec that required lower NOACK volatility and a cap on oxidation at high temps (which were more stringent than the GF4 specs at the time). It's how GM got away with no oil cooler on the Vette because they were struggling with how to package it in the bumper and plumb it. It later found its way into a myriad of other 6.0/6.2+ applications. Currently, it is near impossible to find a DEXOS oil that isn't at least a synblend, most being a full synthetic. It makes me feel much better about going the full life of the OLM, something I've never done on conventional oil. GM also uses it as a way to tout lower overall TCO when they sell a vehicle, which is something all manufacturers are in too right now. That's all worth $.07 a gallon if you ask me.


The point is not the specs but the royalties, something other OEM's don't do with their certifications/approvals.

Specs like LL-01, LL-98....etc are also long-life oil specs and the euro marques maintain lists of approved lubricants. But there are no royalties associated with this, only the cost of obtaining the approval, which is the case for I believe all brands that aren't GM.
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