Thinking Of Buying A Chevy Cruze

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
If North Korea and Iran acted friendly towards the USA in 50 years and they made cars that were very competitive with US makes...would you buy them? Sorry but I would not. My Grandpa hated the Germans, even though he grew up in a German household here in the USA. He told me that Mercedes made German tools of war and they tried to kill him. When he was in Berlin after the war he was in a bar and overheard some German men cursing in German about how the occupation troops were treating German citizens. Little did they know my Grandpa was fluent in German, they found out after he kicked the [censored] out of one particularly mouthy one. He had to be dragged off of one of them while screaming at them, you started this &%$# and now you are complaining about me being here away from my family in a DMZ, weeks after Luftwaffe planes were strafing my boat? He apparently told them where he was staying that night and for them to come on over. Of course my Grandpa was armed and the Germans were not allowed to be. Grandpa also lost a cousin, best friend, and uncle in the pacific so you can imagine his love of the Japanese was not really there either. I still remember driving home my new 97 civic and he would not even come out of the house to look at it. It took me a few years, but now I understand why after all of those years he felt that way. He was darn proud that his parents moved to the greatest country in the world. He fought hard for the freedoms we take for granted. He would rather be run over by a Ford than sit in a BMW. I have adopted his feelings for a few reasons. #1 they tried to kill the man who was my best friend. #2 America builds as good of a car or truck as any other manufacturer. I know I know, but I really believe it. #3 America needs executive level jobs to stay here, not in foreign countries. You can tell me all about parts content or labor rates, but where do the profits go? Where is the R&D?
Anyways, I understand why people want to drive an American car. If you do not, then hopefully you understand a little more now.


It's refreshing to find someone that doesn't hold a grudge for an unreasonable period of time...

That said, I've owned vehicles manufactured in the US, England, Germany, Italy, and Japan- and while my tastes run to German cars and British bikes I can honestly say that my automotive/motorcycling life would be much less entertaining if I arbitrarily limited myself to vehicles from just one country.

 

[sciphi]

As always, the local GM dealer will make or break the ownership experience. If that's one area that GM needs to improve, it's the dealership experience. There are some excellent dealers out there. And unfortunately a lot more not so good ones.

 

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

True in general, but you're oversimplifying things. Many employers are very adamant about their employees' use of competitor's product. My wife used to work for Pepsico. Unless you were in R&D, if you were seen drinking Coke at work, you'd be fired. So, yes, it's a free country, meaning, if you want to drive a Civic, you're free to quit your job at GM.

I don't understand why this is so complicated to some people? Besides, if one company pays my bills, why would I support the competition?


well he didn't say who he worked for so if he works for GM why is a focus on his mind and if he is a ford worker why would he consider a cruze. he is already not brand loyal so what's the difference between a civic and a focus or cruze? its not like one is more American than the other.


He could work for a supplier for American vehicles... not necessarily JUST Ford or GM. Ultimately it's not our business.

 

[Barkleymut]

[/quote]

It's refreshing to find someone that doesn't hold a grudge for an unreasonable period of time...

That said, I've owned vehicles manufactured in the US, England, Germany, Italy, and Japan- and while my tastes run to German cars and British bikes I can honestly say that my automotive/motorcycling life would be much less entertaining if I arbitrarily limited myself to vehicles from just one country. [/quote]

It was just my opinion, I did not tell anyone not to buy a Japanese or German car. I did not judge them at all. I simply told you why I will not buy one. But you made a snarky remark so here it goes. Thank you for lowering the bar on a discussion. Go live life where you can throw stones in your glass house.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

True in general, but you're oversimplifying things. Many employers are very adamant about their employees' use of competitor's product. My wife used to work for Pepsico. Unless you were in R&D, if you were seen drinking Coke at work, you'd be fired. So, yes, it's a free country, meaning, if you want to drive a Civic, you're free to quit your job at GM.

I don't understand why this is so complicated to some people? Besides, if one company pays my bills, why would I support the competition?


well he didn't say who he worked for so if he works for GM why is a focus on his mind and if he is a ford worker why would he consider a cruze. he is already not brand loyal so what's the difference between a civic and a focus or cruze? its not like one is more American than the other.
if he works hard for his money and wants a civic he should buy one. if the company doesn't like it build a car that's better. that's like saying since I work in retail I shouldn't shop anywhere but where I work. which is fine except I wouldn't be able to get all of what I needed. being loyal is fine screwing yourself in the process of being loyal is imo foolish.
If you work for a car company they give you big discounts to buy their product. so that makes sense. however if a chevy or ford is ok then any should be because they are bigger rivals than anyone else.

My guess is he works for a supplier. If you knew the atmosphere in Detroit towards foreign cars, you might understand. The OP even mentioned, a lot of places have designated parking areas for foreign cars. It's usually as far away from the building as possible.
On a side note, my father in law works for Coca-Cola. You will never see any Pepsi products in his house. If he buys a case of Pepsi, that means Coke sells one less case, which cuts into his profit sharing. If Employees aren't loyal to the employer, can the employees be upset when the employer shows no loyalty?

 

[blackman777]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Any owners out there? What is the consensus on these cars? Should I avoid buying one? It's easy to find good stuff; tell me about the bad.

High maintenance costs according to cars.com and Edmunds (see other thread about cost to own). Of course if I really wanted a Cruze, which is a stylish car, I would buy a Volt instead (same body but with extra spoiler, bumper, etc). Price is reduced to $27,500 with tax credit.

Or buy used. Lots of cheap Cruzes, Priuses, et cetera on the used market. I see Plugin Priuses going for only Half their initial price!

The absolute lowest cost cars you can buy are listed below. I'm leaning towards the 3-cylinder 45mpg Fiesta:
- Nissan Versa sedan ($12,000)
- Mitsubishi Mirage or Ford Fiesta sedans ($13-14,000)
- Toyota Yaris or Honda Fit sedans ($15-16,000)

 

[blackman777]

Originally Posted By: whip
You will never see any Pepsi products in his house. If he buys a case of Pepsi, that means Coke sells one less case, which cuts into his profit sharing
Buying a coke case == 0.000001 extra cent added to his profit-sharing check. He'd be better-off to buy whatever brand is on sale, even if it's Pepsi, as it will net him 1-2 dollars extra in is wallet.

As for German car companies killing Americans... remember that Ford, GM, etc built weapons that killed Germans/Italians/Occupied european citizens. If they held a grudge, Ford and GM would never sell a car in western Europe. (Ditto Ford and GM would never sell a car in Japan.)

And finally: USA loyalty. I used to be a loyal "buy American" person who bought nothing buy Plymouth/Dodge. Unfortunately that company dropped the ball. I wanted a hybrid; they don't sell any. I wanted an electric; they don't sell any. They don't even sell >40mpg cars.

So I moved to Honda (insight) and Nissan (was shopping for a Leaf). I don't like buying Japan-made cars, but those were the only cars that were available in hybrid or EV format. Dodge didn't provide the option. If they want me as a customer, they need to provide what I want.

Another thing that changed my tune was watching me and my friends (coworkers) get laid-off by an American company during 2002 (and again 2009-10). Ditto with other companies. There is no such thing as employer loyalty to American workers anymore. They just go with whatever labor is cheapest (China, India, or wherever). It's a dog-eat-dog world.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: blackman777


Or buy used. Lots of cheap Cruzes, Priuses, et cetera on the used market. I see Plugin Priuses going for only Half their initial price!

The absolute lowest cost cars you can buy are listed below. I'm leaning towards the 3-cylinder 45mpg Fiesta:
- Nissan Versa sedan ($12,000)
- Mitsubishi Mirage or Ford Fiesta sedans ($13-14,000)
- Toyota Yaris or Honda Fit sedans ($15-16,000)


I guess it depends on the market.

Can't find a Prius C for less than $18,000 here. Still a little more than half the original price. Toyota must save the plug-ins for California.

But Mirage?

I think you mean Lancer. I see ads for Lancer base models for well under MSRP. Mirage is a 3 cylinder hatchback. The return of the Geo Metro. (although it's engine makes about as much horsepower as the G13 4 cylinder Suzuki)

 

[blackman777]

Mirage is a brand-new car just released (or soon to be released). It isn't on the used market yet. In fact all the prices I listed for Versa, Fiesta, Yaris, Fit were new prices.

Prius Plugins are selling on ebay for $17-19,000 dollars (used) which is approximately half their $35,000 MSRP cost. The Prius C is a gasoline car; no plugin.

 

[Spazdog]

and being just released I think that the Mirage will get all or most of it's sticker price for awhile.

and I think it makes the 2nd least amount of horsepower of any new car barely beating the SmartForTwo (also powered by a Mitsubishi 3 cyl)

Lancers are probably the oldest design in the class and appear to be priced accordingly. (EvoX excepted)

The Lancer actually drives pretty well, but it is not class competitive in fuel economy

 

[javacontour]

This is true. Chrysler closed the minivan and truck plants in St. Louis. Yet they can still build these vehicles outside the US. RAM in Mexico, Minivan in Canada.

So while I see the ads and propaganda to "Buy American" the car makers are doing less "Build American" so why should I look for the American made vehicle?

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: whip
You will never see any Pepsi products in his house. If he buys a case of Pepsi, that means Coke sells one less case, which cuts into his profit sharing
Buying a coke case == 0.000001 extra cent added to his profit-sharing check. He'd be better-off to buy whatever brand is on sale, even if it's Pepsi, as it will net him 1-2 dollars extra in is wallet.

As for German car companies killing Americans... remember that Ford, GM, etc built weapons that killed Germans/Italians/Occupied european citizens. If they held a grudge, Ford and GM would never sell a car in western Europe. (Ditto Ford and GM would never sell a car in Japan.)

And finally: USA loyalty. I used to be a loyal "buy American" person who bought nothing buy Plymouth/Dodge. Unfortunately that company dropped the ball. I wanted a hybrid; they don't sell any. I wanted an electric; they don't sell any. They don't even sell >40mpg cars.

So I moved to Honda (insight) and Nissan (was shopping for a Leaf). I don't like buying Japan-made cars, but those were the only cars that were available in hybrid or EV format. Dodge didn't provide the option. If they want me as a customer, they need to provide what I want.

Another thing that changed my tune was watching me and my friends (coworkers) get laid-off by an American company during 2002 (and again 2009-10). Ditto with other companies. There is no such thing as employer loyalty to American workers anymore. They just go with whatever labor is cheapest (China, India, or wherever). It's a dog-eat-dog world.

 

[99Saturn]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Any owners out there? What is the consensus on these cars? Should I avoid buying one? It's easy to find good stuff; tell me about the bad.

High maintenance costs according to cars.com and Edmunds (see other thread about cost to own). Of course if I really wanted a Cruze, which is a stylish car, I would buy a Volt instead (same body but with extra spoiler, bumper, etc). Price is reduced to $27,500 with tax credit.

Or buy used. Lots of cheap Cruzes, Priuses, et cetera on the used market. I see Plugin Priuses going for only Half their initial price!

The absolute lowest cost cars you can buy are listed below. I'm leaning towards the 3-cylinder 45mpg Fiesta:
- Nissan Versa sedan ($12,000)
- Mitsubishi Mirage or Ford Fiesta sedans ($13-14,000)
- Toyota Yaris or Honda Fit sedans ($15-16,000)


I wouldn't really take the calculations at edmunds or cars.com at face value. IIRC maintenance for the first year/15,000 miles reads at something like $300 to $400 on the Cruze. The only scheduled maintenance on the Cruze is an oil change every 7,500 or by the OLM and tire rotation at 7,500 miles. I guess if you are paying $90 for the oil change you can get to that number...

Also IIRC the costs that come through in those calculators never back rebates off the base price, which particularly with GM, can be found 10 months out of the year.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
But you made a snarky remark so here it goes. Thank you for lowering the bar on a discussion. Go live life where you can throw stones in your glass house.


I'm not the one who brought up our World War II adversaries in a topic discussing choosing between two American vehicles. Still, I'm sorry that I hurt your delicate sensibilities.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: whip
You will never see any Pepsi products in his house. If he buys a case of Pepsi, that means Coke sells one less case, which cuts into his profit sharing
Buying a coke case == 0.000001 extra cent added to his profit-sharing check. He'd be better-off to buy whatever brand is on sale, even if it's Pepsi, as it will net him 1-2 dollars extra in is wallet.

And if every employee bought what ever they wanted, it would add up. If it happens, don't get upset when the company starts eliminating jobs.

 

[blackman777]

I doubt a few hundred employees who Stop buying coca-cola will make any dent in the company's profits. They have almost a billion customers.

 

[dishdude]

It's kinda like showing up to play football wearing the opposing team's jersey.

 

[blackman777]

Not really. My employer might be Boeing, but that doesn't mean I forbid my self from flying on Airbus to fly crosscountry for Thanksgiving. That's because I know my trivial $180 ticket won't make any difference to Boeing's billion-dollar bottom line.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: 99Saturn

I wouldn't really take the calculations at edmunds or cars.com at face value. IIRC maintenance for the first year/15,000 miles reads at something like $300 to $400 on the Cruze. The only scheduled maintenance on the Cruze is an oil change every 7,500 or by the OLM and tire rotation at 7,500 miles. I guess if you are paying $90 for the oil change you can get to that number...



I know that I have compared Edmund's projected service costs on the actual costs on a couple of my cars, and the Edmunds figures were much higher than my actual costs- and I was using the dealer rather than an independent.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Not really. My employer might be Boeing, but that doesn't mean I forbid my self from flying on Airbus to fly crosscountry for Thanksgiving. That's because I know my trivial $180 ticket won't make any difference to Boeing's billion-dollar bottom line.


That's not really in the same vein here. If you were in the market for a plane and worked at Boeing but bought an Airbus instead, that'd be in-line with what is being discussed. Ultimately if you are making use of a service offered by an airline, what they choose to use for planes is their business, not yours, you are just utilizing their service for travel. You have no role in their purchasing decision.

Working at Ford and driving a GM wouldn't be a great career move for example. That's the gist of what appears to be being discussed here. Not working at Ford and being unable to get a drive to the mall with your buddy who drives a Camaro

 

[ls1mike]

Overkill. That was perfect.