Recent Topics
How do you say it?
by GreeCguy
21 minutes 59 seconds ago
Oil recommendation
by TIUSER
28 minutes 19 seconds ago
A Slew Of Choices
by Red91
Today at 01:48 AM
Two Shops, One Septic Tank
by Red91
Today at 12:20 AM
Tell me about Saab 9-3 convertibles
by pottymouth
Yesterday at 11:57 PM
Harbor Freight 25% Single Item Easter Sunday
by gr8gatzby
Yesterday at 11:45 PM
07 Buick rendezvous transmission ?
by Brady56
Yesterday at 11:32 PM
First Impressions - Deere D105
by sciphi
Yesterday at 11:21 PM
please recommend 2010 Kia OCI in months not miles
by QuickSilver
Yesterday at 11:12 PM
First topic... 1998 Acura RL with 158k miles
by GoStumpy
Yesterday at 09:27 PM
Slide-Glide for Semi Auto's
by jcwit
Yesterday at 09:11 PM
Chrysler SRT8 6.4 Hemi - Best Oil to Use ?
by Rodge
Yesterday at 09:02 PM
Newest Members
loneryder, MNbiker, Amercanzer0, BobCos, rdm101
49632 Registered Users
Who's Online
19 registered (dave180, dlundblad, GreeCguy, GrtArtiste, bruno, lubedude13), 448 Guests and 217 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
49632 Members
64 Forums
212138 Topics
3325071 Posts

Max Online: 2605 @ Yesterday at 12:41 PM
Donate to BITOG

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#3195103 - 11/22/13 06:31 PM Tungsten Disulfide
BigBird57 Offline


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 198
Loc: Florida
Has anyone ever used this in PCMO? I have found a site that sells this for $54 per pound. They say you mix this with oil at a rate of 1%-15% by weight.
_________________________
It is ok to expect, however you have to inspect.
2002 Tahoe 5.3 PU 5w-30
2008 Accord LX-P PU 5w-20

Top
#3195128 - 11/22/13 06:56 PM Re: Tungsten Disulfide [Re: BigBird57]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6514
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Do they state nominal particle size.
Would you mind inboxing me with their website please.
If no website would contact info be possible.
If the particle size is micron or sub micron I'd like to try it as an oil additive.
I read that it can be added to oil using a blender. If you run the carrier oil in the blender long enough the carrier oil will heat up,then add the tungsten disqualified and blend again.
Unless using something like mmo or another solvent as a carrier that will flash off leaving only the TdS behind.
I could start brewing my own friction modifier in my garage.
Klevee's Frankenbrew.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

Top
#3195136 - 11/22/13 07:05 PM Re: Tungsten Disulfide [Re: BigBird57]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 20181
Loc: NY
http://www.rosemill.com/category_s/35.htm

I use it to coat bullets, it works well in oil too, although it doesn't stay in suspension as well as MoS2. If you call them and talk to their tech people they'll fill you in on the pro's and con's.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops!


Top
#3195141 - 11/22/13 07:10 PM Re: Tungsten Disulfide [Re: BigBird57]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 13639
Loc: Midwest
Unless it is Dialkylammonium Tungstate in oil I wouldn't use in engine oils.
_________________________
Everyone needs a friend who is all ears. There's no such thing as too much candy. Keep your paws off of other people's jelly beans.

Top
#3195174 - 11/22/13 07:41 PM Re: Tungsten Disulfide [Re: BigBird57]
spasm3 Offline


Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 3114
Loc: north carolina
From what i have read, its a good friction modifier, but won't stay/maintain a suspension in oil. Lubromoly does seem to have a colloidal property and stays for the most part in suspension. Everything i've read about tungsten disulphide says it falls out immediately.
_________________________
Bryan
13 elantra 24k penplat5w30
03 chevy avalanche 63kQSUD
02 saturn sc1 54k penn ultra
01 saturn sc1 156k nextgenhm
93 olds ciera 61k 5w30 nexgenhm
gz250

Top
#3195208 - 11/22/13 08:18 PM Re: Tungsten Disulfide [Re: BigBird57]
BigBird57 Offline


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 198
Loc: Florida
_________________________
It is ok to expect, however you have to inspect.
2002 Tahoe 5.3 PU 5w-30
2008 Accord LX-P PU 5w-20

Top
#3195209 - 11/22/13 08:19 PM Re: Tungsten Disulfide [Re: BigBird57]
expat Offline


Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 3465
Loc: Canada
Castrol in the UK, in the 70's advertised their GTX had
"Liquid Tungsten"

Top
#3195213 - 11/22/13 08:24 PM Re: Tungsten Disulfide [Re: Clevy]
BigBird57 Offline


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 198
Loc: Florida
WS2, 99.9% Pure, 0.6 micron APS @ $54 per lb.
_________________________
It is ok to expect, however you have to inspect.
2002 Tahoe 5.3 PU 5w-30
2008 Accord LX-P PU 5w-20

Top
#3195216 - 11/22/13 08:30 PM Re: Tungsten Disulfide [Re: demarpaint]
BigBird57 Offline


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 198
Loc: Florida
What vehicle did you use this product? How much additive per quart of oil?
_________________________
It is ok to expect, however you have to inspect.
2002 Tahoe 5.3 PU 5w-30
2008 Accord LX-P PU 5w-20

Top
#3195419 - 11/23/13 07:33 AM Re: Tungsten Disulfide [Re: BigBird57]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 20181
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: BigBird57
What vehicle did you use this product? How much additive per quart of oil?


I had a pound of it which I used for coating bullets, and thought I would take a try at using it in oil. I used it in a 93 Aerostar, and an old edger which had an oil burning issue. I don't remember the dose, IIRC is was about 1 teaspoon/qt of oil. The people at Rosemill suggested the amount. It stopped the edger from using oil. The only downfall is it falls out of suspension and that's why I don't use it any longer. I later tried Lubro Moly MoS2 and found it stayed in suspension, so I stuck with it. The tech people at Rosemill were very helpful at the time with my questions. It would be worth calling them if you're interested in pursuing it further.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops!


Top
#3195775 - 11/23/13 02:40 PM Re: Tungsten Disulfide [Re: MolaKule]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 255
Loc: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Unless it is Dialkylammonium Tungstate in oil I wouldn't use in engine oils.


Can you suggest a source or reference to this product? Except for some guy applying for a patent, I can find almost zero references to Dialkylammonium Tungstate or Dialkyl Ammonium Tungstate.

There are numerous references to Tungsten Disulfide - basically a dry film lubricant, that is gaining in application popularity.
_________________________
2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE

Top
#3195784 - 11/23/13 02:59 PM Re: Tungsten Disulfide [Re: BigBird57]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 13639
Loc: Midwest
Here is my problem with dry lubricants such as powdered moly, titanium, and Tungsten being introduced into a crankcase: Unless the dry lubricant is specially processed into a colloidal system with polarity additives, the dry lubricant may fall out of suspension and may not attach itself to friction surfaces, OR if it's a specially processed organo-metallic chemistry. Organo-metallic chemistries are only the ones that should be introduced into a formulated oil and only after extensive lab testing, engine teardown and analysis, and fleet testing.

MoDTC, special titanium compounds and dialkylammonium tungstate are specially processed organo-metallic compounds and the only ones fully soluble in motor oils.


I went to Google and easily found the following references:

http://www.rtvanderbilt.com/documents/MSDS/EU/51155.pdf

VANLUBE W-324 - Amine Tungstate AW Synergist found in:

http://www.vanderbiltchemicals.com/ee_co...omestic_Web.pdf


Edited by MolaKule (11/23/13 03:04 PM)
_________________________
Everyone needs a friend who is all ears. There's no such thing as too much candy. Keep your paws off of other people's jelly beans.

Top
#3195885 - 11/23/13 05:18 PM Re: Tungsten Disulfide [Re: MolaKule]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 255
Loc: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
MoDTC, special titanium compounds and dialkylammonium tungstate are specially processed organo-metallic compounds and the only ones fully soluble in motor oils.

I went to Google and easily found the following references:

http://www.rtvanderbilt.com/documents/MSDS/EU/51155.pdf

VANLUBE W-324 - Amine Tungstate AW Synergist found in:

http://www.vanderbiltchemicals.com/ee_co...omestic_Web.pdf


Okay, but you should have easily found that there was not much information at the Vanderbilt link above, except that VANLUBE W-324, their product containing dialkylammonium tungstate, is listed as a 'new product'.

If you search for VANLUBE W-324, here's the spec sheet. But, there's not much real information here either, particularly as to applications. Four product tests are listed, for one of which one of Vanderbilt's own moly product actually performed slightly better. For all of the tests, it's worth noting that the performance differences between the various products tested was very slight - truly microscopic - if you study the scales on the charts. But, VANLUBE W-324 is an interesting product nonetheless.

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Here is my problem with dry lubricants such as powdered moly, titanium, and Tungsten being introduced into a crankcase: Unless the dry lubricant is specially processed into a colloidal system with polarity additives, the dry lubricant may fall out of suspension and may not attach itself to friction surfaces,


MoS2 falling out of suspension is a known issue. Sub-micron particle size seems to be a suitable fix. I've not read of issues involving MoS2 not attaching to metal surfaces.

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
... OR if it's a specially processed organo-metallic chemistry. Organo-metallic chemistries are only the ones that should be introduced into a formulated oil and only after extensive lab testing, engine teardown and analysis, and fleet testing.


Where do you get this stuff? It really sounds good, but according to this Wiki's article on organo-metallic chemistry, there's no particular link between this very new technology and oil additives. In any event, the bond between MoS2 and metal surfaces should be mechanical - not chemical. MoS2 is not soluble in oil (or much of anything else). But, I'm clearly not a chemist.

As for "extensive lab testing, engine teardown and analysis and fleet testing" we all want that. Who wouldn't want that kind of information? But if that's the standard to be met before using an additive, there would be no additives.

There's a small body of this information on Molybdenum Disulfide used as an oil additive (but clearly not enough to satisfy detractors). And this is a product which has been in rather widespread industrial use for about a century. We can only hope this type of testing is someday done on the organo-metallic flavors of molybdenum and titanium.
_________________________
2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE

Top
#3195906 - 11/23/13 05:45 PM Re: Tungsten Disulfide [Re: MolaKule]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 255
Loc: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
... OR if it's a specially processed organo-metallic chemistry. Organo-metallic chemistries are only the ones that should be introduced into a formulated oil


Upon further reflection, I think I was much too kind. You specifically do not want a soluble form of tungsten or molybdenum in the oil (which seems to be the claimed goal of organo-metallic chemistry, at least your reference). As before, small particle size is a suitable fix for settling issues.

If the additive is soluble, it will drain out when the engine stops - just like the oil in the Lucas gear-crank toy mentioned earlier in this thread. In may drain faster or slower - basically the take-away from the Lucas toy. But, once it drains out - no more lubrication. One of the nice features of MoS2 is that it does not drain out. It more-or-less stays put on the bearing surfaces. You get dry-film lubrication at start up, and you can keep driving if you take a bullet in your engine pan. In that narrow sense, MoS2 doesn't make for a 'better oil'. Rather, it's more of an oil substitute, which does not interfere with the motor oil's normal functioning.

But MoS2 (and probably Tungsten Disulfide) is a very slippery substance, it reduces friction, heat and it is highly resistant to extreme pressure. Viewed in that way, it might make a 'better oil'.
_________________________
2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE

Top
#3196104 - 11/23/13 09:37 PM Re: Tungsten Disulfide [Re: MolaKule]
BigBird57 Offline


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 198
Loc: Florida
This is why I like the forum. It sounds like the tungsten disulfide is not quite ready for prime time in PCMO. I can see a use on a bolt action rifle in extremely cold weather. I run Pennzoil Ultra so I will resist the temptation to experiment with this dry lubricant.
_________________________
It is ok to expect, however you have to inspect.
2002 Tahoe 5.3 PU 5w-30
2008 Accord LX-P PU 5w-20

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >