Fram at subzero

[Ironthinker]

I live in northern MN. We have temps as low as -35F so the worry is oil flow on cold starts. Fram gets good marks on flow and failing marks on filtering.

Would it make sense to use Fram oil filters when I do my one 0W30 oil change for the year? I'd NEVER use Fram when it warms and the dust flys.

 

[nails24]

I live in Wisconsin. I use M1 0W40 and a K&N oil filter in a Subaru Turbo.

My question to you is ... Why not buy a top notch oil filter and not worry about the FRAM ? One oil change a year and I would think you can afford another $5 for a K&N or M1 filter.

Chad
87 Subaru Turbo
92 SHO

 

[hk33ka1]

Yeah I agree. If you only change once or twice a year a even $10-20 filter won't break the bank. Try an Amsoil,K&N, or Mobil 1 filter. Don't bother with the cheap stuff like Fram if you are only gonna use one or two a year.

 

[Ironthinker]

I change oil every 3,000 miles or sooner with dino and 6,000 on synthetic in the winter. I'm don't like expensive filters any better than Frams product.

But is a Fram filter the Ace of Flow and the duce of filtering. The 2-3 cold months of the year the priority is flow.

[ February 15, 2004, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Ironthinker ]

 

[rpn453]

The basic Fram was shown to flow well on Bob's test and I'd bet your engine wouldn't know the difference unless what happened to me one time happens: The spring inside lost tension somehow and the internals were loose, so a lot of oil probably passed through unfiltered. I noticed this when the filter "rattled" after removing it.
I cut it apart after that and compared it to an AC Delco (Dana/Wix). The quality of construction of the Fram was so much lower that I will never buy one again, since I can get an AC Delco or NAPA Silver for around the same price. I really wish I could get those Champion $1.99 Supertech filters up here! I'll have to pick up some more next time I'm in the states.

 

[Oldswagon]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ironthinker:
I live in northern MN. We have temps as low as -35F so the worry is oil flow on cold starts. Fram gets good marks on flow and failing marks on filtering.

Would it make sense to use Fram oil filters when I do my one 0W30 oil change for the year? I'd NEVER use Fram when it warms and the dust flys.

---

Ironthinker:

if you look at the Mercruiser oil filter study on this website, I think you will see that the Fram filter is one of the worst flowing filters. Bob's test that showed little drop across the Fram was likely because the filter was in bypass mode.

That said, I think a good flowing and well built filter are extremely important in cold weather. Have you looked at Baldwin or Wix filters? These are both fairly cheap filters, and offer great flow and filtration. AC Delco are also a good choice if you want to save a few bucks.

My suggestion is that you also run an oversized filter to help increase flow at these cold temperatures. Is this filter going onto one of your 307 cars? If so, there are several oversized filter options that you can use over the stock tiny PF-58 size. Two oversized options are as follows:

1/2 Quart Size (same can size as Chevy PF-25)

AC Delco: PF-24
Wix: 51258
Baldwin: B39

Note: all contain ADBV

1 Quart size (same can size as Chevy PF-35)

AC Delco: Discontinued
Wix: 51049
Baldwin: B9

Note: the Wix has no ADBV, while the Baldwin does

I am currently running a Wix 51258 filter and Pennzoil LL OW30 in my '85 307. So far I have had no cold weather startup troubles. We saw temperatures of around -35F in January earlier this year. My Olds started without trouble and it is parked outside all the time.

I am thinking of trying the larger Baldwin B9 filter once I use up my case of Wix. I wish the Wix 51049 offered an ADBV since it filters better than the Baldwin B9, which is why I went with the smaller 51258.

 

[AV8R]

On cold starts, 99% of the oil going through a spin-on filter bypasses the media. This results typically in a 6-8 psi pressure drop across the bypass valve, depending on the engine designer's ideas about bypass valve settings. This happens on all filters, regardless of the filter media, since the oil viscosity is several orders of magnitude higher than at design (working) temperature. It may take several minutes for the oil to heat enough for the bypass valve to start closing, and unfiltered (hopefully, clean) oil is circulating during that time. When the oil is hot, the size of the filter outlet (the inside diameter of the threaded nipple the fliter screws onto) typically sets the limit of flow, not the filter media. A decade ago, we tested a dozen or so available filters using SAE 30 oil at 185 degrees, and pressure drops were within a pound or two of an empty filter can. This was on a small block 350 at 5000 rpm. I believe most filter engineers try to design based on the outlet size limiting filter pressure drop. (Note that one filter can't "flow more" than another, but it may in some cases have a lower pressure drop under equivalent operating conditions in an engine. The increased pressure to the oil galleries slightly increases flow, but only in proportion to the square root of the pressure increase, usually negligible.) Most hype about "high-flow filters is, well, hype. In my experience, lower viscosity oil is the only thing you can do to help flow during low temperature operation. A larger filter volume (longer can) won't help much with flow, but it will go off bypass more quickly. The engine oiling system is what it is. At operating temperature, filters will "flow" about equally, as well, regardless of cost or media type. The occasional filter which has a large pressure drop across the media should be scrupulously avoided. (Fram, perhaps?) Filtration ability is important and I choose on that basis, along with details on construction provided by members of this group, looking for strong housing and element design, and good bypass and adb valving. Most are fine, the ones favored by this group are likely the best.

 

[TC]

I'd tend to agree with some of the other comments here in that, at those kind of rarified temperatures, about the last thing an oil would feel like doing is squeezing itself through a filter media, at least not until it was warmed up. Funny to think it, but I guess what one is looking for here is a good bypass design before the oil is warmed -- might as well forget about the idea of thorough filtration. But once the oil approaches normal engine operating temperature, it doesn't know (or care) what the outside air temperature is, so you'd want a filter that would perform as well as one would in August. So that might rule out Frams. I'd stick with overall filter quality whether it's January or July, IronThinker.

 

[Propflux01]

And personally i would not worry whether its a spring or clicker type bypass, either...I have not heard of a 'clicker type' bypass not working and blowing out a filter yet on this or other forums...

 

[V6 Diesel]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Oldswagon:

1 Quart size (same can size as Chevy PF-35)

AC Delco: Discontinued
Wix: 51049
Baldwin: B9

Note: the Wix has no ADBV, while the Baldwin does


I wish the Wix 51049 offered an ADBV since it filters better than the Baldwin B9, which is why I went with the smaller 51258.

---

Have you checked the Wix catalog carefully? On the PF35 versions, they have one model no abdv (51061)and then also have one with an abdv (51060)

So maybe they offer an option for your engine?

 

[Bill Kapaun]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AV8R:
On cold starts, 99% of the oil going through a spin-on filter bypasses the media.
SNIP
A larger filter volume (longer can) won't help much with flow, but it will go off bypass more quickly. The engine oiling system is what it is.
SNIP

---

I've wondered about using "oversize" filters in extremely cold temps. Does the additional "cooling" effect of the larger can override the slightly better flow characteristics of the additional surface area of the filtering media????
It might depend on the location of the filter, ie is it in the cold "air stream" or exposed to slush etc. etc. or is it located in a relatively "snug, dry, warm area" of the engine bay"?

 

[TC]

I've also heard theories on the potential "cooling" effects of larger filter cans before, but I never bought it. When compared to an actual cooling device (automotive radiator, condensor, motorcycle cast aluminum head fins, etc.), the modest can surface area of any typical oil filter would make for a pretty ineffective heating or cooling device, in my opinion. I'd think that the increased media and filter can would have a much more significant impact on filtration, flow, and oil contamination (such as when adding 0.5 qt to a small 3.5 qt engine) than any potential cooling effects.

Put another way, if you asked an engineer to specifically design a low-cost filter that would significantly cool oil as well as filter particulates, it would look quite different than what we now buy at the store, maybe with heavily rippled sheet metal or with fins of some sort, something like that, or at least something with a very different volumeuter skin ratio (a sphere would offer the least amount of skin for a given volume of interior, something not unlike a rounded oil filter). A filter the shape of a small cereal box would offer much more proportionate surface area for cooling.

[ February 17, 2004, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: TC ]

 

[edwardh1]

I dont buy it either.
Plus if the longer filter was near an exhaust pipe it might get hotter.

 

[Oldswagon]

quote:

---

Originally posted by V6 Diesel:
Have you checked the Wix catalog carefully? On the PF35 versions, they have one model no abdv (51061)and then also have one with an abdv (51060)

So maybe they offer an option for your engine?

---

I checked the catalogue and I couldn't find a version of the 51049 with an ADBV. It's strange that the Wix version does not have an ADBV since every other filter company produces this filter with an ADBV.