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#3196855 - 11/24/13 05:30 PM Re: MoS2 testing - sound levels [Re: sammy]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 447
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: sammy
This thread needs to be soluble Moly versus non soluble Mos2 Moly. If you think using Non Soluble Moly is great, try running a high moly oil that uses soluble.


Actually, there is another thread touching on that very subject here.

I've never seen or read much about soluble Moly. Who makes it? Where do you buy it? What do the makers (or others) claims as benefits of one form over another? Any drawbacks?

At least one disadvantage that comes to my mind is that may drain out of bearings and journals, just like motor oil. Is that a real concern, or simply that I don't understand the process?
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#3196861 - 11/24/13 05:38 PM Re: MoS2 testing - sound levels [Re: KCJeep]
jrustles Offline


Registered: 02/24/13
Posts: 1714
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Wow good testing. I had noticed it with my ears but good to see something less biased.


Absolutely.

Great work Injured_Again. Thank you for posting.
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#3196865 - 11/24/13 05:43 PM Re: MoS2 testing - sound levels [Re: dave5358]
sammy Offline


Registered: 07/13/06
Posts: 217
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: sammy
This thread needs to be soluble Moly versus non soluble Mos2 Moly. If you think using Non Soluble Moly is great, try running a high moly oil that uses soluble.


Actually, there is another thread touching on that very subject here.

I've never seen or read much about soluble Moly. Who makes it? Where do you buy it? What do the makers (or others) claims as benefits of one form over another? Any drawbacks?


I think there are clear draw backs from having Moly in suspension, oil filtration seams to come to mind. I believe the soluble Moly is what they use in every engine oil. I use Redline and even at 900ppm Moly there is noting in the bottom of the oil container when you pour it into your engine. And same thing it makes your engine quieter and run smoother. I ran Mos2 and thought it was great at first, but then I got a weird sound and drained it. I may have used too much, I was trying to quiet a lifter tick so i used the entire bottle. But anyhow redline makes the engine run perfect, so I found what works for me.

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#3205646 - 12/04/13 02:34 AM Re: MoS2 testing - sound levels [Re: Injured_Again]
alternety Offline


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 137
Loc: Pacific NW
It would not seem to me that a soluble form of MoS2 is possible. Other things with Mo in them; yes, but not MoS2. I do not believe it is soluble in anything useful.

MoS2 bonds to surfaces and evens out the minute surface imperfections not visible to the eye, but cause significant portions of friction. It works. It has been in industrial (and consumer) lubricant (including engines) for many years. Lower friction is why the engines get quieter. They also run cooler, and can get better gas mileage because friction losses are reduced. The amount of change depends on a bunch of factors. How you are measuring is a big factor. Then the size and internal condition/clearances will impact improvements. One of the main improvements is not readily measured standing in front of a car; longevity. Wear on internal surfaces will be significantly reduced.

It ain't magic; but it is a reasonable substitute.

There is however a better solution. Tungsten Disulphide is similar in lubrication mechanism, but has better specs in all interesting categories. MoS2 was cheaper way back when and it became the dominant product. Now WS2 is competitive and comes in superior forms.

See http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ant#Post2821786 for much more discussion.

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#3217411 - 12/15/13 01:23 PM Re: MoS2 testing - sound levels [Re: Injured_Again]
Nebroch Offline


Registered: 05/16/13
Posts: 73
Loc: Finland
I've done my own "MoS2" testing with 23 year old diesel. Results are rather nice as expected, valve tappet noise gone and overal noise level down. Not much fuel consumption difference though. Something has happened to cam surface:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72044165/50km.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72044165/350km.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72044165/5500km.jpg

Product is from russian manufacturer, according to MSDS it has MoS2 and copper particles.

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#3224977 - 12/22/13 09:25 PM Re: MoS2 testing - sound levels [Re: Injured_Again]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 889
Loc: Kellogg, IA
This is why I like using Schaeffer oil in my vehicles. The seem to put MoS2 in just about every oil, lube, and grease they sell. I can't speak to other's experiences, but with biodiesel just about everywhere now, I got an up tic in fuel dilution from it. With the Schaeffer, the MoS2 does a great job in preventing some of the blow by and subsequent fuel dilution that it barely shows up now. I also noticed a major reduction in viscosity loss, which may be partially a result of the slight fuel dilution, but seemed also a product of some shearing. I am sold on moly in my oil.
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#3224988 - 12/22/13 09:40 PM Re: MoS2 testing - sound levels [Re: j14152]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6988
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: j14152
Could it be that Molybdenum Disulfide thickens the oil and acts as a sound dampener, because SPL devices won't lie if they are used properly. The tester certainly did what he could to eliminate random errors.

Brings to mind the "crank the gear train" display for Motor Honey (Lucas?) on your favorite auto parts counters all across the country, with the thick vs thin oil display. The natural assumption would be that thicker is better. But - for what? Dragging the oil up the plastic walls and over then gears? That takes energy, guys. Translated - money out of your pocket.

The problem with this display is the increase in viscosity has little to do with the film strength of the oil. On the negative side, it increases the viscosity and viscous friction, wasting energy. Today's motor oils are very very good at what they do. Notice that the newer cars are using 0-W20 oil to increase mileage? How long did it take us to accept the shift from 10w40 to 5W30, and now, to 0w20 in some engines? It took me years to accept this. And Costco still doesn't get it! (Racing is a different ballgame than street driving).

What they are NOT using in the crankcase is high film strength 80W90 gear oil or chassis grease which is loaded with MOS2 (just smell it!). It's thick enough to solidify your hair. I'm sure it would cut engine noise - if you could turn it over and start it, that is.

I wonder - I don't have a sound pressure level measuring device, but I'd like to know if the newly-recommended 0-W20 oil (newer Honda's and others use it) is noisier than, say, a 10W40 oil of the same type. I'll bet it is!

Remember - the purpose of motor oil is to lubricate and preserve the metal parts - not to reduce engine noise and clatter.

Manufacturers of both oil and engines do NOT recommend additives, either for fuel or for oil. There is a reason for this - the negative usually outweighs whatever positive that may come with additives, and these aftermarket additives are probably not beneficial or useful. This is not necessarily an absolute, but in most cases the generalization is true. FYI, STP is made from soap!

I remember when changing the oil always made my engines run better and produce more power. That was surely my mind playing tricks with me.



Mos2 doesn't thicken the oil,which renders the rest of the post kinda moot.
Mos2 "plates" metal surfaces which I'm sure creates the sound dampening effect.
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#3224990 - 12/22/13 09:42 PM Re: MoS2 testing - sound levels [Re: TiredTrucker]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6988
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: sammy
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: sammy
This thread needs to be soluble Moly versus non soluble Mos2 Moly. If you think using Non Soluble Moly is great, try running a high moly oil that uses soluble.


Actually, there is another thread touching on that very subject here.

I've never seen or read much about soluble Moly. Who makes it? Where do you buy it? What do the makers (or others) claims as benefits of one form over another? Any drawbacks?


I think there are clear draw backs from having Moly in suspension, oil filtration seams to come to mind. I believe the soluble Moly is what they use in every engine oil. I use Redline and even at 900ppm Moly there is noting in the bottom of the oil container when you pour it into your engine. And same thing it makes your engine quieter and run smoother. I ran Mos2 and thought it was great at first, but then I got a weird sound and drained it. I may have used too much, I was trying to quiet a lifter tick so i used the entire bottle. But anyhow redline makes the engine run perfect, so I found what works for me.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
This is why I like using Schaeffer oil in my vehicles. The seem to put MoS2 in just about every oil, lube, and grease they sell. I can't speak to other's experiences, but with biodiesel just about everywhere now, I got an up tic in fuel dilution from it. With the Schaeffer, the MoS2 does a great job in preventing some of the blow by and subsequent fuel dilution that it barely shows up now. I also noticed a major reduction in viscosity loss, which may be partially a result of the slight fuel dilution, but seemed also a product of some shearing. I am sold on moly in my oil.


Sheaffers uses mos2?
I'd have to actually see that since the only oil I've seen with mos2 actually in the oil is liqui-moly 10w-40.
Its likely organic moly and its different and works differently.
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Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3225058 - 12/22/13 11:50 PM Re: MoS2 testing - sound levels [Re: Clevy]
edhackett Online   content


Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1496
Loc: Sequim, WA
Originally Posted By: Clevy

Mos2 "plates" metal surfaces which I'm sure creates the sound dampening effect.


The attenuation of sound by solids suspended in another media; water droplets in air(fog), solids in liquids, or solids in solids is a well known physical phenomenon. The solid particles absorb the sound and do not conduct it as they are not touching.

The sound reduction observed by the addition of MoS2 to motor oil can be explained by this. The sound reduction is not proof of improved lubrication.

Here's a commercial product that uses the concept:
http://www.cisco-eagle.com/catalog/c-8117-sound-dampening-acoustic-curtains.aspx

Ed
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#3225235 - 12/23/13 08:09 AM Re: MoS2 testing - sound levels [Re: Clevy]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 447
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Sheaffers uses mos2? I'd have to actually see that since the only oil I've seen with mos2 actually in the oil is liqui-moly 10w-40.

I'm not sure if 'testing' is the same as 'seeing' but here are the test results from Petroleum Quality Institute. Shaeffers is loaded with moly - one of the highest levels in use, compared to other popular oils tested.

Originally Posted By: Clevy
It's likely organic moly and it's different and works differently.

Oil analysis doesn't reveal the type of molybdenum in use. Yes, organic moly is different. It's not clear what you mean by 'works differently'.
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#3225323 - 12/23/13 09:52 AM Re: MoS2 testing - sound levels [Re: Injured_Again]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 7837
Loc: NorthEast
Can MoS2 be made in transparent color? Does anybody sells it that way?

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#3225408 - 12/23/13 11:45 AM Re: MoS2 testing - sound levels [Re: dave5358]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6988
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Can MoS2 be made in transparent color? Does anybody sells it that way?


No. Its a mineral that's ground up into micron sized particles.

Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Sheaffers uses mos2? I'd have to actually see that since the only oil I've seen with mos2 actually in the oil is liqui-moly 10w-40.

I'm not sure if 'testing' is the same as 'seeing' but here are the test results from Petroleum Quality Institute. Shaeffers is loaded with moly - one of the highest levels in use, compared to other popular oils tested.

Originally Posted By: Clevy
It's likely organic moly and it's different and works differently.

Oil analysis doesn't reveal the type of molybdenum in use. Yes, organic moly is different. It's not clear what you mean by 'works differently'.


Organic moly and mos2 don't work the same way. Organic moly can only leave a layer 1 molecule thick which is quickly worn off at start up. Mos2 layers and once cooled becomes very hard so at start up the layer is more durable.
That's what I mean by different.
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2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3226087 - 12/24/13 01:08 AM Re: MoS2 testing - sound levels [Re: Injured_Again]
147_Grain Online   content


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1260
Loc: USA
Well said, Clevy!
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#3226509 - 12/24/13 02:23 PM Re: MoS2 testing - sound levels [Re: Clevy]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 889
Loc: Kellogg, IA
Originally Posted By: Clevy

Sheaffers uses mos2?
I'd have to actually see that since the only oil I've seen with mos2 actually in the oil is liqui-moly 10w-40.
Its likely organic moly and its different and works differently.


According to the tech sheets readily available on their site, it is liquid soluble moly. And according to testing done by PQIA, the level of moly in Schaeffer's dwarfs anything else by a multiple of 5 times in most cases.
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#3227818 - 12/25/13 09:38 PM Re: MoS2 testing - sound levels [Re: TiredTrucker]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 20726
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: Clevy

Sheaffers uses mos2?
I'd have to actually see that since the only oil I've seen with mos2 actually in the oil is liqui-moly 10w-40.
Its likely organic moly and its different and works differently.


According to the tech sheets readily available on their site, it is liquid soluble moly. And according to testing done by PQIA, the level of moly in Schaeffer's dwarfs anything else by a multiple of 5 times in most cases.


Good to know, they must load up their oil with moly for a good reason. I never used their oil, but I've only read and heard good things about it.
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