Under Valve Clover Sludge - best action to take?

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Hello All,

Over the weekend I changed the Valve Cover gasket on my Saturn 1999 Saturn SL1 as it was starting to leak pretty badly.. What I found.. I was not thrilled with to say the least.. I have included the pictures below.

I have had the car since 112k miles, Since I have had it I have been running 3k oil changes with valvoline maxlife primarily.

To me it looks like some cleaning has already started to take place, and at least the timing chain looks ok... I plan to cut the oil filter open next change to see whats ending up in it.

Can you make any suggestions about how to go forward?


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Dayum! I would think that 3k changes with brand name oil would have prevented this... you got the car with 115k and how many miles are on it now?
 
Originally Posted By: Brybo86
Dayum! I would think that 3k changes with brand name oil would have prevented this... you got the car with 115k and how many miles are on it now?


Very common to think that around here. My 2000 Century proved otherwise, as did this Saturn. Now don't get me wrong these cars might be the exception and not the norm but either way it gets you thinking. It also got me wanting to see proof that short OCI's with a good dino oil will clean up an engine. I'm still looking for some solid evidence to back that claim up with lots of cases and before/after results.
 
Originally Posted By: Brybo86
Dayum! I would think that 3k changes with brand name oil would have prevented this... you got the car with 115k and how many miles are on it now?


Got it with 112k, and It has 134k now to be exact. I have no idea of the prior maintenance.
 
these are hard/bake-on stuff that must require some elbow grease, solvent and brush to scrub.

Running motor oil or any unicorn discharge won't do squat...

Also: your valve stem seal may have hardened as well, based on the observation.

Q.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
I would go PP and 5K. You engine is in not dire need of cleaning you just do not it to get worse.

It is a 14yr old vehicle.


I should mention this car burns oil at the rate of 1 quart per roughly 1300ish miles.
I think the consumption may worsen with synthetic unless I go up a grade. I was considering Pennzoil high mileage.
 
Originally Posted By: actionstan
Originally Posted By: Brybo86
Dayum! I would think that 3k changes with brand name oil would have prevented this... you got the car with 115k and how many miles are on it now?


Got it with 112k, and It has 134k now to be exact. I have no idea of the prior maintenance.


Well not quite the same as my Century which saw 3K dino OCI's since new. However 22K of 3K dino OCI's didn't do much cleaning if any at all, and you used an oil touted as a good cleaning oil.

Give M1 0W40 a shot as OVERKILL stated if you don't want to try a specific cleaning product, its certainly worth a shot.
 
Doesn't look that bad to me, you've probably already cleaned it up some in the 20k you've put on it. Keep doing what you're doing IMO. If you want to run synthetic, just change it at 5k unless you're inspecting the oil filter regularly on a longer OCI. The danger with faster cleanup is always clogged filter and clogged oil pick up screen. Oil starved bearings are not happy.
 
Originally Posted By: Quest
these are hard/bake-on stuff that must require some elbow grease, solvent and brush to scrub.

Running motor oil or any *unicorn discharge* won't do squat...
Q.

Funniest thing I have heard this morning!
If it isn't too much work to remove the cover again, I would love to see a few shorter runs with some kreen, MMO, seafoam etc. While these may speed up comsumption they should clean things up.

Any idea what the previous owner did for an OCI?
 
Originally Posted By: Brybo86
Originally Posted By: Quest
these are hard/bake-on stuff that must require some elbow grease, solvent and brush to scrub.

Running motor oil or any *unicorn discharge* won't do squat...
Q.

Funniest thing I have heard this morning!
If it isn't too much work to remove the cover again, I would love to see a few shorter runs with some kreen, MMO, seafoam etc. While these may speed up comsumption they should clean things up.

Any idea what the previous owner did for an OCI?


No idea on the previous owner oci. The valve cover shouldnt be hard to take off at all now that its using a preform gasket.

I may experiment a little here and see what I can come up with.. I am a little scared of adding any cleaning products to it just yet.. But I am thinking trying Mobil1 HM to see if it helps any. I wish Pennzoil made a synthetic HM oil.
 
I would get in there and clean it by hand before changing oils or any other kind of treatment. Get as much garbage out as you can, clean up all loose particles and lube up before assembly. I think this is your best shot for the long term.
 
I wouldn't do a darn thing except keep putting in oil, changing it when necessary and keep going. Maybe check out your favorite brand of 15w40 HDEO? Should be fine in your location. Any of the high mileage oils would also be interesting to try. I would not use synthetic or synthetic blend anything, as you would be burning your money in this vehicle.

Dark varnish on non-contact parts is of no consequence, IMO, especially in 14 year old daily beater.
 
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Originally Posted By: actionstan
Donald said:
I would go PP and 5K. You engine is in not dire need of cleaning you just do not it to get worse.

It is a 14yr old vehicle.


I should mention this car burns oil at the rate of 1 quart per roughly 1300ish miles.


And.... there it is. I'd say that kind of deposit is pretty normal for an engine that consumes oil at that rate. Its easy to think that oil consumption is a one-way street from crankcase to combustion chamber, but the fact is when oil can go one way, combustion gasses go the other. The hard baked-on deposits you're seeing are pretty typical of blow-by, either past the rings or past exhaust valve guides. The PCV system can only go so far, and those gasses put their signature all over the valve cover area.

That said, this engine really isn't at any sort of problem level. I'd just use a good oil and keep doing what you're doing rather than risk breaking anything loose by getting to aggressive with solvents.

Quote:
I think the consumption may worsen with synthetic unless I go up a grade. I was considering Pennzoil high mileage.


No, consumption won't get worse. It might actually go down a little. Its more about the cost of all that make-up oil at synthetic prices. I'd be inclined to go with a high-mileage blend. My favorite of that type is MaxLife.
 
What I did with my truck:

1.) plug the oil return holes with whatever you can.
2.) pack paper towels under around and under your cam(s)
3.) get a couple of cans of carb cleaner and a toothbrush and clean all that up.
4.) oil the valve train up real good with new oil, install VC, and life goes on.
5.) oh yeah....clean the snot out of the underside of the valve cover. I used carb cleaner, brake cleaner, gas, etc. etc. until it was clean. I even used Oven-Off.
 
Let me ask you this - have you verified that your engine is getting up to normal running temperature?

My co-worker has a SL2 with the DOHC motor - the thermostat was stuck half open for god knows how long. In spite of me changing her oil for her and using top shelf synthetic every 5k miles, it still sludged/varnished up much like yours.

Verified through OBD2 data, that the car was only reaching 140f after driving for an hour. Changed t-stat, back up to 190+. Had to run 2 short OCI's to clean 'er up.
 
Hello, The two posts above and what scurvy said. Give it the cleaning you "should" because it's open. If the engine ain't rattling, oil it up and drive it.

I put 3 qts. of oil into a friend's 1995 Saturn. It takes 4. Kira
 
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