Toilet Paper Filters

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The Frantz is the only one of the TP filters that had a design that made it impossible to have any significant tissue migration into the oil. There were two screens covering a 1/16th orifice. This didn't stop the BS stories that have always come with TP filters. If anything should get past the two screens and thru the 1/16th orifice it still has to go thru the oil pump pick up screen, the oil pump and the full flow filter.
When I change my filters the paper is very strong and can be torn at each sheet. Oil makes paper very strong. As a rule a neglected roll of TP will be hard. If you try to unroll it it will fall apart. The paper won't get into the oil but the oil will get dirty and thick and won't circilate. A grease monkey will see the Frantz and say there is your problem. You got TP in your oil.
The insurance companies don't pay for engine damage claimed to be caused by TP getting in the oil. They might send an engineer to see what happened to the engine. It is almost unheard of for the insurance company to get a claim. One time the insurance company wanted to know why there were larger pieces of paper in the engine than the orifice at the outlet. It's called trying to scam the insurance company. They will make a grease monkey crawfish in a hurry.
The stories usually start with someone said, someone heard about a guy. That sort of thing. One guy told me he knows a guy that got TP in his catalytic converter and it burned the valves. An Amsoil dealer here in town told me he opened up his Frantz to change the element and the housing was empty. A whole roll of TP was in the oil system. He might be just a liar but I suspect he forgot to put a new roll of TP in after he pulled out the element the last time. He hasn't had any problems since he replaced the Frantz with an Amsoil bypass
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Not to pick on Amsoil dealers. Some of my customers are Amsoil dealers. I don't remember ever using a Frantz for coolant. I would think they would work as good as the Motor Guard or Gulf Coast. The paper holds together good. I have used the Gulf Coast 0-1 jr for a drinking water filter. I learned not to leave a roll of TP in my camper water system without using it. The paper will sour.
The Gulf Coast 0-1 jr is a lot more corrosion resistant than the Frantz. The jr is plastic. The Motor Guard is die cast aluminum with an epoxy coating. I took the Motor Guard coolant filter off my Ford diesel truck and put it on my Legacy motor oil. I took the 0-2 off the truck and put it on a chiller at work. I bought the old truck needing a ring job. It won't be driven until I overhaul the engine. It's a 6.9. It takes 2 gallons of oil to get from Dallas to Seattle and back.

Ralph
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It might be worthwhile to address the other "old wives tale" regarding these filters too. There was some speculation that any filter that could clear up dirty oil was also filtering out some of the additives. So a nice used oil analysis of the oil with an extended use compared to a VOA of the same oil might be informative. Will the microfilters take out Viscosity improvers and/or moly?
 
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You bring up an interesting point. I have an analysis in the Diesel UOA section. The bypass has no effect on the additives.
If suspended PTFE, Graphite and a few other solid additives are in the oil, the TP filter will remove these. Also any solids with additives designed to carry them to the filter will be taken out. The bypass filter change at 3K will replenish any additives lost or used. On a 5 quart system this is 20% replenishment.
We have a few analysis on vehicles using a bypass filter in trucks and autos on this board with no effect.
Hope this helps.
 
I don't know how I let you guys get me talking about Frantz oil cleaners. I have a couple still in use. One at work. No one has ever got paper in their oil from a Frantz. I broke my oldest Frantz. Old Frantz users may remember the ones with the 2 knobs on top. It is probably about a 1959 model. No car it has ever been on has needed an oil drain. I tried to use it to filter hydraulic fluid thru a tiny orifice. I under estimated how much fluid you can put thru a 1/32nd orifice at 1200 PSI. The element couldn't filter fluid that fast. When someone neglects a Frantz they are also neglecting the full flow filter. The full flow filter will break down first.
The TP filters are absorbing the water and acid and protecting the pleated paper in the full flow filter. If you neglect the TP filters they can no longer protect the full flow filter. The full flow filter is thin and has more stress on it. When the full flow filter breaks down it goes right into the bearings.
I sent a Motor Guard M-30 to Shell oil for a condensation problem. I know it will be changed regularly. The engineer said they have used the Frantz and it worked fine. Many big companies think the Motor Guard is only for industrial use. They don't remember how Motor Guard got it's name. There are light aircraft still in the air using the FAA and PMA approved Aero Frantz. I would like to see Frantz get going again. I've put some effort and money into getting the Motor Guard back. The only hose Motor Guard has now is high temp 3/8 hose so I am converting everything from 1/4 to 3/8. It has their name stamped on it.
A guy in California wanted to know what I am doing to keep paper out of the oil. That was the last straw. I told him to mount a Perma-Cool 771-1791 3/4-16 remote oil filter mount from jegs.com. Run a hose from the outlet of the 0-1 Gulf Coast to the mount then to the engine. Screw a Ford FL-lA onto the mount. It's a Ford Powerstroke. He thought it was a heck of an idea.
You can get hydraulic filters that screw right into the bottom of the filters. 3/8 threads available. I told Motor Guard I was putting sintered bronze filters on their filters for people that ask for them. I've known of people using inline gasoling filters then opening them to check for paper fibers. It would make more sense than using the more expensive sock elements. Most of the Motor Guards I sell are being used with the Perma-Cool sandwich adapters where everything goes thru the full flow filter before going to the engine parts. The Frantz sandwich adapters bypassed the oil from the Frantz directly into the engine parts.
I changed my Camry. I modified a remote filter mount 771-195 to eliminate the full flow filter. It had to have a bypass drilled in it. My engine is in immaculate condition. I wouldn't do it if I had large abrasives in the oil. 167,000 miles is low mileage for a Toyota, especially with continuously clean oil!

Ralph
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The Frantz bypass oil filter is still available, if anybody needs one or a replacement. There is a woman in Idaho who still sells it. Her father used to sell it.

Only problem is, I can't remember the web site, although I guess you could find it if you looked a little bit. I was thinking about trying a Frantz on my car, but there is very little room in the engine compartment. The Frantz might be a good oil filter for the sludge monster vehicles-it increases the motor oil about one quart.
 
Mystic, I have a Gulf Coast filter on my 1995 Nissan Altima..If you do a search on my name...Deepsquat...you will find a few UOA where I went 20,000 and then 30000 miles on my M1..could have probably went to 50,000 or so as the oil was stil in good shape..I would do 2-3000 mile filter changes and 1 quart top off. Only trouble is it is a tight fit in my engine bay...so I used plastic tyes to create a chain and I chained it to my cooling fan shroud.

I believe Ralph has said that he has gone so far as to place it in the trunck of a car and run lines up to the engine...Buy one from Ralph and you won't regret it.....

BTW I changed my filter last night..I do it at a car wash and clean the engine at the same time the fiter swap out takes all of 2 minute...plus I always have a clean engine this way.
 
Deepsquat,

I've done all kinds of things. Put the battery in the trunk; leave the filter in the box and drop it in a hole somewhere back behind the engine, etc. On my Camry I wrapped a rag around the fuel filter and stuffed it behind the strut tower. You better not have any fuel leaks or it is a one qt Molitoff cocktail.
It's a Motor Guard M-60. I just got the stuff from jegs.com to install a dual remote ATF Motor Guard on a new 6.0 Powerstroke transmission. All of the fluid will go thru a big spin on filter but a steady stream of fluid will be diverted to the Motor Guard to be cleaned first. I have a Perma-Cool sandwich adapter set up for the Duramax engine and ATF filters. I used 19 feet of hose on a new 6.0 Powerstroke Ford crew cab. Back in the 60's all I remember being a tight fit was the Lincolns.

Ralph
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[ July 02, 2003, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: RalphPWood ]
 
Well, it wont be long and I'm joining the crowd, or at least attempt to depending on where I can mount the bypass from Ralph.

Since I have a trend of analysis's on my escort, showing everything from 15w40 to the current 5w30 schaeffers oils on this car, many can follow the history on how this engine is working without a bypass. As soon as I'm done running the current oil to the 4k mark and have an analysis done, I'm going to attemp to install a TP filter from Ralph and then do 3k(maybe 4k) oil analysis on the oil with the 5w30 blend each time I change the TP filter out. This will or should show how the TP filter will work on this engine and with the long analysis history, give you some idea what is happening. I expect that with the makeup oil at filter change times, I effectivly should be able to extend the oil drains on a continuing basis to such a point that it might just eliminate oil changes for me. Is it possible? If replacing a qt of oil during the oil change intervals is used, I'd say it should. Anyway, just thought I'd let you all in on what to expect the next analysis after this current run. I'm really getting quite excited about this and will keep you posted on the progress of the installation with pics as well.
 
same place you dispose of oil filters. at a recycle agency, or your garbage can i would assume.

bob, please keep updates on your engine, perhaps a summary of all you have done and such. i am quite interested.
 
Bob,
You might also consider doing away with they Full Flow filter and using a block-off plate. Then you will have a true analysis of the ability of the bypass to clean the oil with no FF to credit any results of your experiment.
 
I'm sorry, failed to explain that the TP filter system will eliminate the full flow. I am however considering running with just the block off plate for the first 3k, pull a sample, then install the TP bypass filter, run another 3k and pull a sample again. This showing unfiltered oil and then what the tp filter will do to the oil as for filtering. Just an idea at this time.
 
Not all TP filters required external mounting and oil lines. I had a finned aluminum casting TP filter I bought from J.C. Whitney for a 71 Plymouth Satellite and later on a 73 Ford Galaxie. Don't recall the brand. It was a two piece assembly that unscrewed for replacement of the partial TP roll and mounted conventionally in place of an OEM or PH-16-type filter. (I believe there were other optional exit port threaded couplers and various gaskets to go in other cast-in groves to mate with other manufacturer engine applications. It seemed to work reasonably well, though the oil began darkening markedly at about the 2,000 mile mark. If it wasn't screwed back together tightly enough after servicing it, subsequent removal was apt to be an exercise in emergency waste management procedures as it unscrewed from itself instead of from the engine oil filter mounting pad... I finally quit using it because it just got to be too much bother. Even when everything went well, what do you do with a drenched, dirty oil dripping roll of toilet paper? I doubt tossing them in the trash is on the list of EPA approved methods of toxid waste disposal... I finally gave it (properly cleaned and with a fresh partial roll of single-play toilet paper installed!) to my neighbor but I never heard back whether he bothered trying it.

Before anyone asks why a "partial" roll - because a full roll wouldn't fit...

"Don't use the small roll over the toilet tank, Honey. I'll need it for the car tomorrow!"

"Sorry, I just did 'cause I couldn't reach the rolls in the under-basin cupboard."

"Auurrghhhh!....."

(And sociologists wonder why the divorce rate is soaring?...)

[ July 04, 2003, 02:55 AM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
 
I get the question a lot. Where do You get rid of a dirty roll of TP? I don't know, but I would think anywhere you get rid of any oil filter.
I'm not sure what JC Whitney sold. There were a couple of those types of filters. I still have a Stilko Eternal Oil Cleaner oil cleaner I bought about 35 years ago. They were made in San Diego, CA. I saw one in a Popular Science Magazine a few years ago. I believe it was called a Stelko Condor. I naven't used mine in over 29 years. They are not my choice. They take about 1/2 roll of TP and are messy to change. Like any TP filter they are very effective at cleaning oil.
I just mounted a Motor Guard M-60 on the frame of a new 6.0 Powerstroke for fuel. The 6.0 is a different animal. They have made some changes. I see three lines going thru the electric fuel pump. Monday I have to go to Ford and find out which line is which. I got used to the 7.3. The M-60 won't let anything reach the expensive stock filters.
Take me back to the 60's when things were simple.
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Ralph
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Looking forward to your experiment, Bob.

I figure it's a good one for cars out of warranty.

A correctly done set-up ought to lend a hand to MolaKule's comment about todays additives being tomorrows basestock (possibility thereof).

(Now if only gasoline or light-duty diesels had a reason to be equipped with an engine-run compressor to power a centrifuge, ha!
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)

On the other hand, as an air filter appears to have a more direct effect on engine longevity, who's gonna be the first to equip their vehicle with a centrifuge dirt/air separator at the intake?
 
Ich habe auch absolut keine Ahnung wovon die beiden geredet haben........wollte schon immer 'mal Spanisch lernen aber habe nie die Zeit dafuer gehabt.......Schon Scheisse ..
quote:

Originally posted by Rat407:

quote:

Originally posted by Patman:

quote:

Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY:
Usted sabe grasiento, le deseo pondría en el Info verdadero en cuanto a donde usted está y lo que usted lo hace. Hace a tablero realmente mucho mejor tener gente que no juegue juegos. He estado intentando calcular fuera de cuáles es el "Un Descrasio" pero le sospecho lo tengo mis deletreado.

Nos pienso puedo todo apreciar a mujeres como siendo un interés que vive abajo aquí en la Florida, realmente gozo del trabajo de arte hermoso que la mujer tiene encendido cuando intentan encendido ese bikiní nuevo. De todas formas, recepción al tablero y si usted , por favor decirme donde en qué área le localizan y cuál es el descrasio del un. Grazias. Bob


The only thing I understood there was Florida and bikini! That's all I need!
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I understood thank you.
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I should do a better job at learning a second language. Here where I live, the migrant workers are plentifull and so my small town is more from south of the boarder. We got some killer real Mexican food, not Taco Bell at all.
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Alex,

in meinem Fall, spreche ich, keine Sprache aber verwende Systran, um zu übersetzen, also soll alle, die ich tun kann, hoffen, daß sie mir irgendeine Idee gibt, was das tatsächliche Thema sein konnte. Bob
 
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