Does anyone notice when getting behind some newer suv's on the road the rear wheels seem to be out of alignment and seem to be bowing out. I saw this on my 2011 santa fe when it was new with 130 miles and i saw this on my neighbors honda suv with under 10,000 miles on it. I had mine aligned by a friend because hyundai service said they did not see it and if they checked it on the machine and it was out of align i would have to pay for it because they don't guarantee alignment. By the way my friend said he sees a lot of suvs like that. He does alignments for most of the dealers in the area.
I See A Lot Of SUV's With Bowing Out Rear Wheels
- Thread starter crazyoildude
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You're saying they have positive camber?
I generally see this on the Pilot/MDX/Odyssey. Must be horrible on the tires.
gathermewool
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Originally Posted By: dparm
You're saying they have positive camber?
Right. Is it because they have saggy butts?
Or, do you mean they have positive toe (toed out)?
You're saying they have positive camber?
Right. Is it because they have saggy butts?
Or, do you mean they have positive toe (toed out)?
Negative camber ... Seems like Honda Pilot, Oddysey and Element are the worst. Even empty they are riding down the road like this /------\
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Negative camber ... Seems like Honda Pilot, Oddysey and Element are the worst. Even empty they are riding down the road like this /------\
Exactly. CRVs as well. I've noticed this problem a lot.
Negative camber ... Seems like Honda Pilot, Oddysey and Element are the worst. Even empty they are riding down the road like this /------\
Exactly. CRVs as well. I've noticed this problem a lot.
People hardly replace suspension parts like they are supposed to. The average shock/strut replacement interval is 125k/9 years I'd bet.
SUVs and Vans are vehicles with the most weight on the rear end, so likewise they are the vehicles it's most noticeable on.
There was a 1" difference in spring sag on my dads VUE vs an OEM replacement spring.
On vehicles with leaf springs it's even more noticeable as leaf springs just wear out and go flat.
SUVs and Vans are vehicles with the most weight on the rear end, so likewise they are the vehicles it's most noticeable on.
There was a 1" difference in spring sag on my dads VUE vs an OEM replacement spring.
On vehicles with leaf springs it's even more noticeable as leaf springs just wear out and go flat.
That would be negative camber, and I've seen it on a number of heavily loaded vehicles with IRS, not just Hondas and not just minivans and crossovers. You'll see it on Mercedes and BMW cars with a full trunk and a couple of folks in the rear seat.
This doesn't look good for the tires.
This doesn't look good for the tires.
Possibly they come from the factory that way to improve handeling on a front heavy vehicle. Ed
Old Escorts did that all the time.Engineers could design a suspension that did not change camber through the full travel if they wanted to.I am thinking this is an attempt to stabilize the vehicle under loaded conditions,not taking into account that when springs sag,the wheels will keep that bottoms out appearance all the time.Chewing up tires a'la 1960s/70s/80s/90-95 Ford F series Twin-I-Beam setup.
OVERKILL
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I've wondered why they call that look VIP? To me it looks like somebody with a fundamental misunderstanding of suspension geometry.... Unless the "I" in VIP here stands for idiotic
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Does anyone notice when getting behind some newer suv's on the road the rear wheels seem to be out of alignment and seem to be bowing out.
If you mean /---\, then that's normal. It's not a "misalignment" or a "problem".
That negative camber is meant to induce understeer, which is considered to be a "safe" handling mode for road-going vehicles driven by ordinary drivers.
Most vehicles with independent rear suspensions have had some degree of negative camber since the '80s, at least.
Does anyone notice when getting behind some newer suv's on the road the rear wheels seem to be out of alignment and seem to be bowing out.
If you mean /---\, then that's normal. It's not a "misalignment" or a "problem".
That negative camber is meant to induce understeer, which is considered to be a "safe" handling mode for road-going vehicles driven by ordinary drivers.
Most vehicles with independent rear suspensions have had some degree of negative camber since the '80s, at least.
Yes, but the amount that shows up on Hondas is dangerous. I would be afraid of heating up the inside of the tire causing a blowout. Or having to replace tires every 3000 miles.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Yes, but the amount that shows up on Hondas is dangerous. I would be afraid of heating up the inside of the tire causing a blowout. Or having to replace tires every 3000 miles.
It depends on how out of spec the camber really is. Appearances are deceiving. Out of spec toe angle will wear a tire so much faster than out of spec camber (Tokyo knuckle heads not withstanding).
Yes, but the amount that shows up on Hondas is dangerous. I would be afraid of heating up the inside of the tire causing a blowout. Or having to replace tires every 3000 miles.
It depends on how out of spec the camber really is. Appearances are deceiving. Out of spec toe angle will wear a tire so much faster than out of spec camber (Tokyo knuckle heads not withstanding).
Some have chronic camber problems, like every X5 ever made for example.
on my 2011 santa fe one wheel was out more than the other brand new i think some of the Hyundai santa fes do have alignment problems but i may be wrong my alignment guy says he sees this all the time
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Yes, but the amount that shows up on Hondas is dangerous. I would be afraid of heating up the inside of the tire causing a blowout. Or having to replace tires every 3000 miles.
I suppose you're going to have to define "dangerous" in this context. Neither of the doomsday scenarious to which you refer happen. In fact, and to the contrary, this setup is demonstrably safer than a zero-camber setup. Negative camber adds a certain degree of stability to the rear end of a vehicle. I've owned both. We had a minivan with a solid rear axle and traded it for an SUV with an IRS with "dangerous" negative camber and it's far more stable and controllable with loads in the back than either of our minivans were, even with twice the miles on the dampers.
This topic comes up all the time. I used to be in the camp of the doubters. I'd laugh at the older Odysseys all the time. "Our minivan's tires don't do that, har har." Then I experienced the difference, and found out that the joke was on me.
Yes, but the amount that shows up on Hondas is dangerous. I would be afraid of heating up the inside of the tire causing a blowout. Or having to replace tires every 3000 miles.
I suppose you're going to have to define "dangerous" in this context. Neither of the doomsday scenarious to which you refer happen. In fact, and to the contrary, this setup is demonstrably safer than a zero-camber setup. Negative camber adds a certain degree of stability to the rear end of a vehicle. I've owned both. We had a minivan with a solid rear axle and traded it for an SUV with an IRS with "dangerous" negative camber and it's far more stable and controllable with loads in the back than either of our minivans were, even with twice the miles on the dampers.
This topic comes up all the time. I used to be in the camp of the doubters. I'd laugh at the older Odysseys all the time. "Our minivan's tires don't do that, har har." Then I experienced the difference, and found out that the joke was on me.
A coworker had a Kia Barrigo with rear tires that bowed out like that. He noticed it but thought it just normal for that type of car. He had it aligned after it wore through a set of tires in 12,000 miles.
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