What is my Honda Pilot engine's REAL problem?

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Originally Posted By: SilverGGA
I believe it only includes VCM V6 cars.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/23/honda-settles-class-action-lawsuit-engines/
http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA913971022.PDF

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
American Honda settles class-action suit over oil-burning claim
Edit: I just noticed this settlement exludes VCM cars. Is this a different problem??

Ok, got it now.
smile.gif
I don't recall if the OP was fully reimbursed, but hopefully he will be now.
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-Dennis
 
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Originally Posted By: bluesubie
DETROIT -- American Honda Motor Co. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over claims that it manufactured 1,593,755 defective vehicles that excessively burn oil and require frequent spark plug replacements. The settlement concerns all U.S. purchasers and lessees of 2008-12 Accord..... equipped with six-cylinder engines that have variable cylinder management.

They specifically excluded the 2005-07 Accord Hybrids which had VCM engines. Hmmmm. I wonder why? Those hybrids switched from V6 to V4 operation during "eco" mode.
 
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Originally Posted By: Ram01
Well that's what happens when u use a lightweight motor oil for long drain intervals


Really?
Care to explain why millions of vehicles on the road today using lightweight oils at 7500-10000 mile intervals aren't presenting these symptoms associated with increased wear.
Honda had a problem with this particular engine and just didn't get in front of it as soon as problems presented themselves.
Had they notified dealers and owners to either shorten the drains in conventional or substitute a synthetic I don't think the issue would have been anywhere near as big as it became.
To make a blanket statement like that when Hondas other engines as well as many other oem's engines are lasting as long as,or longer than ever.
My 04 hemi ram 4x4 had 5000 mile drains since new using bulk 5w-20. I totalled it at 280k and the engine ran like new. It consumed no measurable amount of oil between extended oil change intervals using synthetic.
The ford 4.6L engines are becoming just as legendary for durability as the 5.0 it replaced and they are used in service vehicles that get beat on,then sold to can companies who beat them and 300k is commonly achieved.
So please if you can,dig up some actual data that an engine that proves your comment.
I await with baited breath.....
 
I'm seeing a lot of reading fail here.

The OP used the correct oil and followed the OLM, and even sought reassurances from the dealer that said OLM was indicating the correct length of OCI.

This isn't about the "wrong" oil; or about extended drains. The OP and others in his situation *did* RTFM, followed it, and still had significant failures.

That's a problem that Honda's been reluctant to own.

My wife's a Honda girl, has been for 20 years, but this thread and other information have convinced her never to buy one of their V6 products with VCM.
 
Originally Posted By: yesthatsteve
I'm seeing a lot of reading fail here.

The OP used the correct oil and followed the OLM, and even sought reassurances from the dealer that said OLM was indicating the correct length of OCI.

This isn't about the "wrong" oil; or about extended drains. The OP and others in his situation *did* RTFM, followed it, and still had significant failures.


Ummm lessee... If the recommended oil caused the issue, I don't see how it could not be the wrong oil... As you state Honda just won't admit it...
 
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: yesthatsteve
I'm seeing a lot of reading fail here.

The OP used the correct oil and followed the OLM, and even sought reassurances from the dealer that said OLM was indicating the correct length of OCI.

This isn't about the "wrong" oil; or about extended drains. The OP and others in his situation *did* RTFM, followed it, and still had significant failures.


Ummm lessee... If the recommended oil caused the issue, I don't see how it could not be the wrong oil... As you state Honda just won't admit it...


We may be attacking the same idea from different directions. If I read you correctly, you're suggesting Honda didn't specify a robust enough oil, while I speculate much earlier in this thread that Honda didn't properly calibrate the OLM for extensive highway driving under VCM. Two different approaches to the same problem - conventional oil breaking down under heavy VCM use well before the OLM indicates the oil is spent.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
American Honda settles class-action suit over oil-burning claim

DETROIT -- American Honda Motor Co. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over claims that it manufactured 1,593,755 defective vehicles that excessively burn oil and require frequent spark plug replacements.

The settlement concerns all U.S. purchasers and lessees of 2008-12 Accord, 2008-13 Odyssey, 2009-13 Pilot, 2010-11 Accord Crosstour and 2012 Crosstour vehicles equipped with six-cylinder engines that have variable cylinder management. Accord vehicles with four-cylinder engines are excluded from the settlement.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20131022/OEM11/131029975?template=mobile&X-IgnoreUserAgent=1

Edit: I just noticed this settlement exludes VCM cars. Is this a different problem??

-Dennis



Wow-I knew they had problems but no idea how many cars were involved.


This from www.driveaccord.net:

Andrew Thurlow's summary of this case (above) is misleading with regard to what the proposed settlement order actually says.

It is important to note the scope of the proposed settlement. Namely: "This lawsuit is about Engine Misfire and its symptoms and causes . . . . The Engine Misfire at issue generates one or more of the following vehicle diagnostic trouble codes (“DTC”): P0301, P0302, P0303, or P0304." Significantly, the proposed settlement does use or mention the words "oil consumption" anywhere in the proposed settlement order. Thus, unless the claimant's V-6 experiences a "diagnosed" "engine misfire" that results in one of the DTCs listed in the proposed order, the fact that the engine may consume "x" amount of motor oil per thousand miles is not relevant and is not included in the PSO.

Thurlow also failed to note that (quoting from the PSO): "The Court has not decided in favor of Plaintiff or Defendant. Instead, both sides agreed to a settlement on behalf of everyone in the proposed Settlement Class . . . . Settlement Class Members will only receive certain agreed-upon benefits "if the settlement is approved and becomes Final." That determination will not be made until March 21, 2014.

What are the proposed benefits for claimants? Good question. Here again, it's important to read the PSO for content. If the PSO becomes final, the "remedy" for "qualified Engine Misfire" may include repair or replacement of spark plugs, valve stem seals, and engine pistons and/or pistons rings." The PSO further states: "[L]ess commonly performed [repairs] . . . may include repair or replacement of ignition coils, the engine short block, the engine long block, and the valve timing chain and/or valve timing tensioner." Finally, "Out-Of-Pocket Expenses for services are eligible for reimbursement only if the repair invoice or other documentation indicates that they were performed in connection the following diagnostic trouble codes (DTC) P0301, P0302, P0303, or P0304."
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: HangFire
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek


Thanks for posting the pictures. Eye opener. I never had any Honda cars, but this is an engine to stay away from.
Good job on rescuing the engine. Sad that Honda is denying any problems. Every car maker have some dark side.


Lol another reading comprehension FAIL, or maybe just another Honda slam slipped in at the end of an old thread in an attempt to influence those who didn't read the whole thing.

What part of the dealer using a 5000 mile rated economy-oriented conventional oil for extended oil change intervals in an engine known to be hard on oil did you miss? Properly maintained (either use synthetics or shorter OCI's) and these engines last as long as any.



Normally, I don't reply to idiots, but you own me an apology here.


Well, let's see, you say avoid an engine based on this thread, which is about a wiped cam lobe due to running conventional oils for insane OCI's without UOA's, but you think is about bad engines.

Then after the fact try to use an article about a legal settlement as evidence, a legal settlement about a different issue with these engines, a legal settlement in the American court system where it is often easier and cheaper to just settle and pay out then fight an allegation ad nauseum.

Nope. No apology here.

Try reading all the OP's posts and his own conclusions, and if you want to be taken seriously, try addressing them instead of laying down broad baseless allegations.

HF
 
Another 2006 Pilot V6 VCM engine with lobe damage. Used Mobil 1 and followed the MM which is ~7k miles for him. If you scroll down a little bit, he posted a pic with varnished internals.

http://www.piloteers.org/forums/2-general-discussions/31767-knocking-noise.html#post540273

His other thread about his car:

http://www.piloteers.org/forums/69-2003-2008-pilot/46306-2006-exl-pilot-engine-ticking.html

Another 2006 Pilot V6 VCM with worn cam and intake rocker arms. He used Mobil dino and followed the MM to 15%, which is usually ~3k miles for him:

http://www.piloteers.org/forums/70-2009-...html#post540305
 
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