Honda VCM Class Action Lawsuit Settlement

[mclasser]

Looks like Honda finally had to respond to all the VCM complaints dumped at their doorstep. If this settlement is approved in March 2014, Honda will extend the powertrain warranty on all 1.6 milion affected vehicles to 8 yrs/unlimited miles. Vehicles included:
• 2008-2012 Honda Accord;
• 2008-2013 Honda Odyssey;
• 2009-2013 Honda Pilot;
• 2010-2011 Honda Accord Crosstour; or
• 2012 Honda Crosstour

Although I don't have any VCM-related issues(yet) on my 2013 Pilot at 8k miles, I wish Honda would fix the actual issue. Yet then again, the only fix may be scrapping the stupid VCM engine altogether. The whole constant cylinder activation/deactivation system is just too complex to justify the extra 1 mpg squeezed out. I'm surprised the lawsuit doesn't cover the many premature engine mount failures due to the VCM system as well.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20131022...t#axzz2imJEk1CL

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/23/honda-settles-class-action-lawsuit-engines/

 

[michaelluscher]

Between this and The first lawsuit about Toyota's "Unintended Acceleration" That they LOST, Thing's are not looking so rosy for the Hokkaido set. It's a shame, because we were all driven to buy at least "semi-foreign" because of problems like this on GM & Ford products. It seems even power hungry Toyota & Honda have begun to slip. And I miss the old GOOD japanese cars like the CRX-Si & The MR2 SC.

#feelingconflicted

 

[NHGUY]

The Japanese are becoming what the US makers were,and the Koreans are the new Japanese....although I have seen some 6-8 year old KIA/Hyundai cars just blown away with rust.One things certain,I will never buy a new car ever again.I prefer a well seasoned car thats not all rotted away.If it can last 10-15 years without mass rust,it was a good one.

 

[nitehawk55]

Best to keep designs simpler .

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: NHGUY
The Japanese are becoming what the US makers were,and the Koreans are the new Japanese....although I have seen some 6-8 year old KIA/Hyundai cars just blown away with rust.One things certain,I will never buy a new car ever again.I prefer a well seasoned car thats not all rotted away.If it can last 10-15 years without mass rust,it was a good one.


It's the same exact thing that the American companies went though; the vehicles sell themselves, so they can let quality slip.

 

[97K15004WD]

Originally Posted By: nitehawk55
Best to keep designs simpler .


So very true....

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: NHGUY
The Japanese are becoming what the US makers were,and the Koreans are the new Japanese....although I have seen some 6-8 year old KIA/Hyundai cars just blown away with rust.One things certain,I will never buy a new car ever again.I prefer a well seasoned car thats not all rotted away.If it can last 10-15 years without mass rust,it was a good one.


That and you can see what's blowing up all of your prospective purchase before you get your feet wet.

 

[zloveraz]

 

[rjundi]

I wonder what percentage hit the issue or is special version of car? My family has 2 vans(Ody) VCM equipped and 1 Accord/VCM with 150k+. Troublefree is terms of powertrain. No oil burning.

They get excellent highway MPG for what its worth. VCM does little though for around town MPG with is abysmal in Honda vans just like Toyota/Chrysler etc.

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: 97K15004WD
Originally Posted By: nitehawk55
Best to keep designs simpler .


So very true....


When we bought my '06 Honda Odyssey, I specifically avoided the VCM and PAX tires. I told my wife all that stuff "might" be good, but I just don't trust it. I am glad to have my EX model without any of these issues!

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: nitehawk55
Best to keep designs simpler .


Truth is "complex" design in the past has turned out incredibly reliable.

Like Honda VTEC, Toyota Hybrid drivetrains, Fuel Injection, ABS etc. That being said I am a sit back and see person although I did get VTEC back in 1992 with a Honda Civic.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: 97K15004WD
Originally Posted By: nitehawk55
Best to keep designs simpler .


So very true....


When we bought my '06 Honda Odyssey, I specifically avoided the VCM and PAX tires. I told my wife all that stuff "might" be good, but I just don't trust it. I am glad to have my EX model without any of these issues!


You were smart! The VCM is the worst thing Honda ever produced except maybe their automatics. The PAX tires are another fiasco.
I have lots of PAX wheels with bald tires here that were replaced with regular rims and TPM's.
If they only offered sliding doors with a decent all metal mechanism that would be real progress.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: nitehawk55
Best to keep designs simpler .


Truth is "complex" design in the past has turned out incredibly reliable.

Like Honda VTEC, Toyota Hybrid drivetrains, Fuel Injection, ABS etc. That being said I am a sit back and see person although I did get VTEC back in 1992 with a Honda Civic.


To put it another way these systems became more reliable once they were simplified.
I don't think you would find early Bosch, Teves and Bendix ABS or early fuel injection very reliable.

In comparison a 4bbl carb is looking very complex when compared to a modern FI system.
I'm sure VTEC had early engineering issues also it just didn't find its way into production engines, its only when they added VCM to the mix that they really screwed the pooch.

 

[mclasser]

It really is sad. I've been a fan of the "Big 3" Japanese companies for a long time, particularly Honda, and it hurts to see their downturn.

 

[CharBaby]

Yea, I've had good luck with HonYotaSanZda but, I am seeing the cost cutting effects in all of them.

I remember when I'd buy one of the Asian makes and drive it trouble free(maintenance & an occassional repair) for 16-18 years without issues.

I always liked most domestic vehicles for ride/quiet(which the Asian cars didn't have) but, I liked the freedom from notorous problems of the Asian makes.

Now, there seems to be no difference in make/model any more. They're all nice vehicles and they all have their specific issues.

 

[gofast182]

I've never liked VCM as it goes against the way the engine was designed to operate. This version of the technology debuted 5-6 years ago and is now being replaced with an improved 2nd generation of VCM on new V6 models, note that since Honda made this move you've seen many other automakers pick it up over the past few years. That said, these aren't widespread issues, there are hundreds of thousands of these vehicles motoring along every day and I personally know of two VCM V6s that are well over 120k miles with no oil consumption to speak of. Here's some interesting perspective from Shawn Church, a highly-respected performance tuner and auto industry consultant:

"As most people know, what comes out of court in civil and class action cases is rarely a matter of pure justice. It involves financial calculations regarding the cost of litigation, predicted outcomes, and in the case of a consumer products company, potential PR issues.

I know many Honda and Acura service techs. I employ one who worked for Honda/Acura for 15 years. Find me a failure attributable to any disputed VCM issues - good luck. The failures are due to low oil/broken down oil due to overheating and failure to keep a proper amount of oil in the engine. Most of these V6s are using 0w-20 or 5w-20 oil and have a capacity of less than 5 quarts. Without an oil cooler, this leaves little room for error if you let the oil get low.

As I stated before, 1 qt oil/1000 miles is considered acceptable consumption across the industry. Whether you agree or not, that's the standard. As I calculated in my other post, that level of consumption puts a tiny amount of oil contamination into the system.

As for spark plugs, possibly a related issue, but that is uncertain. I can burn a quart of oil in 100 miles at the track and my plugs look fine. So it isn't just an oil consumption issue.

The primary problem here is of people ignoring their oil levels and destroying an engine. Every engine burns oil. Some more than others. Driving habits play a role. If people expect to not use oil and never need to check it, they're playing Russian roulette.

I think far more cars consume oil than people think. It's just that today the vast majority of cars get oil changes done by someone besides the owner. And most owners don't check the oil on any sort of regular basis - if at all.

As someone else pointed out, with the advent of longer oil change intervals people will start to notice it more. I think this is why the Germans have started to put electronic oil level monitors into everything. You can't go 10-15k miles between changes without consuming some oil. I seem to recall Edmunds having to add oil frequently on their last long term BMW.

In terms of what this means for engine or emissions system health - not much. The average car seeing mixed use will average somewhere between 30-40 mph over its life. Depending on gearing this will result in an average engine speed (excluding idle time) of between 2000 and 3000 rpm. So, for example, lets say 35 mph and 2500 rpm average. That's about 0.5 miles/minute. Or 5000 engine revolutions per mile. If you burn 1 liter of oil per 1000 miles, that's 1000cc per 5 million revolutions. On a v6 that's 1000cc per 15 million cylinder injection/firing events. Or 1 cc of oil per 15,000 firing events. Or 0.00006 cc/cylinder event. In that same time period you'll be burning nearly 200 liters of fuel on the typical v6. If you really think oil contamination of 0.5% is going to dramatically change things in a gas engine well, you don't want to know what else gets burned."

 

[Tosh]

Originally Posted By: mclasser
It really is sad. I've been a fan of the "Big 3" Japanese companies for a long time, particularly Honda, and it hurts to see their downturn.

Another Honda fan here that has seen their heyday come and go. And those days will never come back, especially now that they are dumping all their R&D money into Formula One again...

 

[CharBaby]

Originally Posted By: Tosh
Originally Posted By: mclasser
It really is sad. I've been a fan of the "Big 3" Japanese companies for a long time, particularly Honda, and it hurts to see their downturn.

Another Honda fan here that has seen their heyday come and go. And those days will never come back, especially now that they are dumping all their R&D money into Formula One again...

Well, lets just hope that F1 will be part of their R&D as this is where Honda developed/refined many industry leading technologies in the past.

Honda developed their own, double wishbone susspensions, V-Tech, their own ABS(ALB), oval piston/8 valves per cylinder technology and so many other techs that escape me at the moment. Many(not all) technologies that went into their production cars.

These racing technologies helped Honda develope some fo the best small passenger cars in the world and I hope that Honda applies these new(whatever new) tech's to their automobiles from the(still waiting to see) NSX, down to the Fit.

Honda was at one time, feared by many car companies as being untouchable/uncatchable! That only lasted for a short period of time.

They need to do more than they're doing now(although it's getting better). Many of their vehicles are again, at or near the top of their catigory. They used to all be at the TOP of their catigory but, they only made several cars during this past F1 period(Civic, Accord, Prelude & Acura). Now, they're producing lots of vehicles.