E15 starting to appear.....

[Lead Shoes]

I have noticed E15 has been put at the pumps of Petro Serve USA stations here in the fargo area. The handle says for use in 2001 vehicles and newer "may cause serious engine damage if used in older than 2001 vehicles"

Anybody use any of this juice yet or know of any reason why they say vehicles AFTER 2001 are supposedly suited to use E15?
Sounds like when MFG switched to 5w20 in the same engines that were 5w30 the year before...

I also thought in another thread the release of E15 was being put off for a while to investigate the problems it may cause in pre 2006 or 08 (cant remember) vehicles...

 

[Hokiefyd]

The EPA says it's good for model year 2001 and newer, but I don't know of any vehicle manufacturer that allows (in the owner's manual) for the use of any fuel containing more than 10% ethanol.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I would think you would need a thin film wideband lamda control, I haven't done the math to calc stoich on 15% ethanol in a STD gasoline blend - but I would guess its not as simple as it appears on face value.
Older cars run open loop at WOT and most likely would run lean under that condition.
Too lean?, IDK. I would not run the fuel unless the OM states its OK; you may have to call the manufacturer.
Is there any price incentive to run this fuel given an expected drop in fuel mileage?

 

[Eddie]

My 2014 Mazda states very clearly that no more than 10% ethonol is acceptable. I thought this 15% was put aside due to objections by auto manufactures. Ed

 

[SuperDave456]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
My 2014 Mazda states very clearly that no more than 10% ethonol is acceptable. I thought this 15% was put aside due to objections by auto manufactures. Ed


+1

And didn't Auto Manufactures go to Congress telling them that this is a bad idea.
Their argument was filling up with the wrong blend can kill a engine pretty fast.

I see auto manufacturers going back to congress to give them a big "told you so".

 

[TechnoLoGs]

This is bad.

 

[TechnoLoGs]

And, it begs the question: WHY?

 

[Reg# 43897]

What a complete load... Do Not Want... Just got E10 a few years back. It's no fun. Scream at your elected representative.

John.

 

[Lead Shoes]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I would think you would need a thin film wideband lamda control, I haven't done the math to calc stoich on 15% ethanol in a STD gasoline blend - but I would guess its not as simple as it appears on face value.
Older cars run open loop at WOT and most likely would run lean under that condition.
Too lean?, IDK. I would not run the fuel unless the OM states its OK; you may have to call the manufacturer.
Is there any price incentive to run this fuel given an expected drop in fuel mileage?



Good question on the incentive, I'll record all the posted prices when I go there before the weekend is over.

This is the ONLY station I have seen it at, and their ads are always about supporting the farmers and ethanol fuels...

ALSO it says UP TO 15% so I am assuming it is more than 10% but up to 15%. But then again E10 says "up to" also to cover their behinds...

 

[NHHEMI]

I personally wouldn't run it in any vehicle, regardless of year, unless I had no option( they go to it and it is all that I can get at the pumps like E10 now ). Ethanol fuels are bad news on many levels. However, If you don't have an ethanol fuel bias, and want to try it, I would strongly urge you not to use it unless you have it in writing from the car mfg that it would do no harm.

As another member brought up if you are thinking of running it to save a few pennies( because it is cheaper )remember that ethanol blended fuels lower your MPG. E10 was good for a 2+ MPG drop for me. E15 will be worse. Make sure the loss in MPG will not offset any savings filling up.

 

[Eddie]

+1 E10 vields 4.3% lower heat value or MPG and E15 will be approx. -6.45% mileage.

 

[Lead Shoes]

E15 was 2.94 a gallon while 87 was 3.14, so there is not any savings to be had by using it and possibly having engine problems and losing more MPG from using it.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: TechnoLoGs
And, it begs the question: WHY?


95% political and 5% for cleaner air.

 

[Merkava_4]

The thing is like my car which is a 2000 with the GM 3800 Series II, the engine wasn't updated
to the 3800 Series III until 2004. How is a 2001 engine gonna be any different?

 

[jake88]

I guess the EPA assumes every OEM adopted magic E15 compatibility in the 2001 model year?

I think that the delay was for the labeling portion. The EPA originally wanted to change to 15% ethanol without labeling the fuel with any warnings - essentially just like E10 is today. Or for that matter like B5 diesel is today!

 

[Smokescreen]

 

[DAC17]

If no one buys it, they'll stop selling it. Easy as that.

 

[Kestas]

More realistically, if no one buys it, they'll find a way to step up the mandate and force people to buy it.

 

[benjy]

so many downsides to corn [censored], government wants more MPG ethanol = less, government subsides for corn [censored] at taxpayers expense, it all comes down to $$$ big corn producers "donate" to politicians who make the laws, subsidies make more $$$ for corn [censored] farmers so its more corn [censored] % we pay at the pump + our taxes subsidize the stuff we hate!!! we live in a great country mostly but MONEY controls too much!!! look at drugs, the FDA is run on money from drug producers so they approve pretty much anything, even if it kills or makes us more sick. FACT the USA spends the most $$$ on healthcare but rank LAST in health of all developed nations!!!! enough $$$$$ will control even the truth, as big corperations own the PRESS!!! sad but TRUE!!!!!

 

[jhellwig]

And oil companies dont pay money to politicians? Or get subsidies?