Winter Tires - Michelin LTX MS2 or Cooper AT3?

[spta97]

Originally Posted By: supton
Sounds like you want the LTX MS2 but in 18" size. Per your words, the roads are clear the day after, and most of your driving is done on dry roads. A fresh set with full tread is going to do better than your worn tires. Not as good as snows, but if it's a tire tread that does the job...

What about waiting until after the first snow or two, and then making a decision? As in, if the current tires do ok in the slush, perhaps just get another set for the winter rims at that time? Or, if they just aren't aggressive enough, then bring this topic back up?


I would love to do that but I'm trying to get the tires before the rebates expire (10/27 and 11/5 iirc).

That and I don't want to be in a crunch if we do happen to get a lot of snow but ideally that's what I would like to do.

 

[spta97]

Originally Posted By: Ken2
Tough size to fit. Tirerack.com lists the 18" wheel taking a 265/70-18. The only winter tire they list in that size is the Bridgestone Blizzak DM-V1. Great snow tire, but not high performance on pavement. Alternate sizes shown are 245/75-17 and 285/70-17, and not a lot of choices for those in winter tires, especially high performance rubber.

Try going to tirerack.com, look up your size, look Survey Results for On-Off Road All Terrain, SUV All-Season, and light truck All-Season, filter by Winter, and see which looks best to you. This is only the brands Tirerack carries, which does not include Cooper.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=CSTAS&sortValue=16&filter=y&width=265%2F&ratio=70&diameter=18&showwp=N&showdp=N&showws=Y&showcm=N
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=HAS&filter=y&ratio=70&width=265%2F&diameter=18&showwp=N&showdp=N&showws=Y&showcm=N&sortValue=16
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=ORAT&sortValue=16&filter=y&width=265%2F&ratio=70&diameter=18&showwp=N&showdp=N&showws=Y&showcm=N


Thanks for the info. I've been burned by the tr reviews before and realized it was because any tire is "the best" when you come from a bald set.

I was happy with the Revos until I got over 10k and they got loud and wore quickly.

Ill see what they have to offer again but the coopers seem like a good compromise between what I have and. Super aggressive tread like the duratracs or BFG ko's.

 

[spta97]

Originally Posted By: GenSan
From my experience, generally speaking, an AT tire will offer more substantial "bite"/traction in most snow conditions than a comparable all-season. Between Michelin's AT2 and MS2, I had more available traction in all kinds of snow with the former than the latter. If you are worried about steering/traction/braking on ice you want true winter tires.

Cooper believes their Discoverer AT3 has slightly better winter traction than their Discoverer HT3. LINK (Click on Tire Comparison Attribute Rating).

If you want an AT tire w/ the Mountain Snowflake symbol on sidewall, check out Nokian's Rotiiva AT.


That's very helpful to hear the AT2s had better snow traction than the MS2s as I head the opposite. I had considered them as well but they were even more than the MS2s.

I was told the siping of the ms2s would offer better snow and wet traction but it seems that larger lugs would bite more.

I would really like an at tire again but do not want to make sacrifices and it seems like the cooper might fit the bill but I'm not married to it.

 

[KenO]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
BFG A/T KO hold a snow tire rating, like the true snow symbol allowing them to be used in places mandating snow/winter tires. That's what I'd run.



I'll never undersand them either, because they're a terrible tire in snow, and in soft mud. They don't self-clean AT ALL.


If you have dedicated winter wheels - get Blizzaks and be done with it.

 

[spta97]

Originally Posted By: KenO
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
BFG A/T KO hold a snow tire rating, like the true snow symbol allowing them to be used in places mandating snow/winter tires. That's what I'd run.



I'll never undersand them either, because they're a terrible tire in snow, and in soft mud. They don't self-clean AT ALL.


If you have dedicated winter wheels - get Blizzaks and be done with it.


I appreciate the advice, however I am not looking for a dedicated winter tire as most of my driving WILL NOT be in snow.

 

[KenO]

Originally Posted By: spta97
Originally Posted By: KenO
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
BFG A/T KO hold a snow tire rating, like the true snow symbol allowing them to be used in places mandating snow/winter tires. That's what I'd run.



I'll never undersand them either, because they're a terrible tire in snow, and in soft mud. They don't self-clean AT ALL.


If you have dedicated winter wheels - get Blizzaks and be done with it.


I appreciate the advice, however I am not looking for a dedicated winter tire as most of my driving WILL NOT be in snow.



Then why buy a 2nd set of tires at all? Sounds like the ones you have will work just fine.

 

[spta97]

Originally Posted By: KenO
Originally Posted By: spta97
Originally Posted By: KenO
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
BFG A/T KO hold a snow tire rating, like the true snow symbol allowing them to be used in places mandating snow/winter tires. That's what I'd run.



I'll never undersand them either, because they're a terrible tire in snow, and in soft mud. They don't self-clean AT ALL.


If you have dedicated winter wheels - get Blizzaks and be done with it.


I appreciate the advice, however I am not looking for a dedicated winter tire as most of my driving WILL NOT be in snow.






Then why buy a 2nd set of tires at all? Sounds like the ones you have will work just fine.


That was my original plan when I got the chrome 20s and I searched far and wide for a 4 season tire. I then found out that road salt will destroy my chrome wheels so I decided to run the stock wheels for the winter.

Originally I planned on getting another set of ms2s but then remembered the severe potholes and ice holes (potholes caused by ice) from last winter and was thinking an at tire might handle it a bit better and allow me to go off road if the desire strikes me.

Also, as I find the stock wheels now boring, an aggressive tread would also spice up the truck.

As much as I like the ms2s, they are the lamest looking tire ever.

 

[Rand]

Bridgestone Blizzak DM-V1

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Bridgestone Blizzak DM-V1


+ 1

 

[buck91]

FWIW I just got off the phone with Cooper customer support who stated that the mastercraft AXT features the same carcass as the AT3 with a slightly softer tread compound which does feature a silica enhanced rubber but they said they would not divuldge if it is the same or different from the harder silica tread compound found on the AT3 ;-). After much talking we decided the at3 should get better mileage (slightly) while the AXT should have a slight edge in winter traction.

 

[spta97]

Originally Posted By: buck91
FWIW I just got off the phone with Cooper customer support who stated that the mastercraft AXT features the same carcass as the AT3 with a slightly softer tread compound which does feature a silica enhanced rubber but they said they would not divuldge if it is the same or different from the harder silica tread compound found on the AT3 ;-). After much talking we decided the at3 should get better mileage (slightly) while the AXT should have a slight edge in winter traction.


I have not looked into the ATX, ill have to see what that is all about. Thanks.

 

[spta97]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Rand
Bridgestone Blizzak DM-V1


+ 1


-1

I would agree with you if I got more than 1 or two snow storms a year (although I have never liked how only 1/2 the tread is actually the good tread on the Blizzaks - it's like buying a tire that is already 50% worn).

As I stated above, I am not willing to sacrifice dry performance for the one or two days it snows.

 

[Rand]

I'd have to disagree the second half of the tread is normal winter compound and a tire for snow use is trash around 5/32 anyway.

I guess I dont see the reason to drop the money on a second set of tires that arent snowtires. the michelins are already excellent and long wearing.

Could you possibly just have your chrome rims clearcoated? or otherwise protected?

if you just want to spend 1500$ by all means its not my money I just do see the sense in it(not do I have to)

 

[spta97]

Originally Posted By: Rand
I'd have to disagree the second half of the tread is normal winter compound and a tire for snow use is trash around 5/32 anyway.

I guess I dont see the reason to drop the money on a second set of tires that arent snowtires. the michelins are already excellent and long wearing.

Could you possibly just have your chrome rims clearcoated? or otherwise protected?

if you just want to spend 1500$ by all means its not my money I just do see the sense in it(not do I have to)


I don't consider this a waste of money as my LTX ms2s will last that much longer. Though who knows if they will last the 70k and if I will still have the truck if they do.

I'm not sure of any protective coating, though I have heard some people going as far to smear vasilein on their chrome rims for a ski trip. I can promise you I won't be doing that lol.

I'm also looking for some offload capabilities which is why an at tire is in my sites.

 

[NHHEMI]

If this is all about your chrome rims, and not about winter traction, then IMO don't worry about it. Your LTX M+S2's will handle the on road stuff just fine.

I have run chrome rims in winter here in NH for decades with no issues at all. I clean them good around this time of year, give them a decent coat of wax, and then I run the vehicle through the car wash a couple times a month during the winter. Might do it a little more if they really get covered in salt.

Never had a chrome rim rust, corrode, etc... Bare aluminum rims actually take more of a beating in the winter from road salt and chemicals than chromed steel does.

 

[spta97]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
If this is all about your chrome rims, and not about winter traction, then IMO don't worry about it. Your LTX M+S2's will handle the on road stuff just fine.

I have run chrome rims in winter here in NH for decades with no issues at all. I clean them good around this time of year, give them a decent coat of wax, and then I run the vehicle through the car wash a couple times a month during the winter. Might do it a little more if they really get covered in salt.

Never had a chrome rim rust, corrode, etc... Bare aluminum rims actually take more of a beating in the winter from road salt and chemicals than chromed steel does.


I've had very good luck with painted aluminum rims and I just recently learned I had to wax them. I haven't had chrome wheels since 1997, however it's the many horror stories that I hear that make me want to spend the extra money and put my stockers back on. This will also have the benefit of my truck getting a boost in looks after the winter, as well as protecting the chrome wheels from any damage I may cause by slight off roading / playing in the snow.

This quote from the Waxforum admin pretty much sums up my concerns:

Originally Posted By: Waxforum Admin
We see this type of damage all the time on all types of finishes... the reality is that you can't have nice wheels (or nice cars for that matter) in the winter and expect them to look nice without meticulous and frequent maintenance during the winter. Most guys have winter wheels that are able to take the abuse of road salts, or simply drive something more practical.


And with my level of OCD I would NEVER EVER EVER use an automatic car wash. Not in a million years so that's not an option lol.

Also, chrome "clad" wheels seem to fair much better than chrome over metal as apparently the chrome bonds to plastic much stronger than aluminum. Not sure if you had the chrome clad hubcaps or chrome over aluminum wheels?

But I also like the idea of a nice aggressive AT tire that will give my truck the truck look again rather than the pavement queen look it has now

So through this thread I think now my question is: What is a good AT tire in snow that is not loud or rides too rough?

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Did any of the Armada's come with 17" rims? (what about Titans I think same frame?. VERY limited choice in your 18" size. Tirerack shows a minus size (285-70-17) available but you would need to get the 17" rims. There is an LTX winter but not your size. If your looking for the pothole ability then the smaller rim is better anyway. My Sequoia has 17" summer, 16" winter and I run the Altimax Arctic's. I've hit potholes that others had flats and I (luckily) had no issue. The larger sidewall allows more flex at impact without pinching/bubbles. Sell the factory 18"s on craigslist/ebay, buy the black painted steel 17" in a style you like with the Altimax's and you will have an aggressive look, good ride, a little noisier than LTX M/S, BUT the ability to stop when needed and drive through 2 foot snow is almost priceless.

If the black painted get ruined you rattle can black again. If they bend you can hammer back to shape. Silver painted same deal. My Factory Alloys have taken a beating over the years and wouldn't clean up anymore. Taped them off and rattle canned silver twice already. They're winters , they'll get beat, step back ten feet or drive in traffic and nobody sees any different.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Also with the styled painted steel rims if you hit something they are easier to bend back. If they get trashed you rattle can them and they look good from 10 feet and/or driving in traffic.

I painted my factory silver ones twice so far. The factory painted finish got pitted and stained by salt. Clean the rim, mask off tire, give it a decent coat and reinstall when dry.

http://www.tirerack.com/snow/WinterWheel...ck=5&Qty5=4

 

[Traction]

Here in Iowa I've been running Blizzaks on all our vehicles since 1996 and would never, ever consider running all season tires again. The slight extra cost is nothing compared to a trip into the ditch or accident and the tires cost less than my deductible on my insurance. Plus they make driving in the snow a blast. As far as wheels, chrome is the worst. Sure you can keep the outside look good for about 3-4 yrs., but I have seen so many corrode on the bead seat, hub and valve stem hole and might as well be scrapped. Steel seams to hold up the best, followed by painted aluminum, or clear coated w/o clip on weights of course. At least the bead seats can be buffed clean unlike chrome which impossible to repair. Another option for keeping the outside of a wheel protected in the winter is to plasti-dip them which will cleanly peel right back off in the spring.
https://www.dipyourcar.com/home.php

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: spta97
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
If this is all about your chrome rims, and not about winter traction, then IMO don't worry about it. Your LTX M+S2's will handle the on road stuff just fine.

I have run chrome rims in winter here in NH for decades with no issues at all. I clean them good around this time of year, give them a decent coat of wax, and then I run the vehicle through the car wash a couple times a month during the winter. Might do it a little more if they really get covered in salt.

Never had a chrome rim rust, corrode, etc... Bare aluminum rims actually take more of a beating in the winter from road salt and chemicals than chromed steel does.


I've had very good luck with painted aluminum rims and I just recently learned I had to wax them. I haven't had chrome wheels since 1997, however it's the many horror stories that I hear that make me want to spend the extra money and put my stockers back on. This will also have the benefit of my truck getting a boost in looks after the winter, as well as protecting the chrome wheels from any damage I may cause by slight off roading / playing in the snow.

This quote from the Waxforum admin pretty much sums up my concerns:

Originally Posted By: Waxforum Admin
We see this type of damage all the time on all types of finishes... the reality is that you can't have nice wheels (or nice cars for that matter) in the winter and expect them to look nice without meticulous and frequent maintenance during the winter. Most guys have winter wheels that are able to take the abuse of road salts, or simply drive something more practical.


And with my level of OCD I would NEVER EVER EVER use an automatic car wash. Not in a million years so that's not an option lol.

Also, chrome "clad" wheels seem to fair much better than chrome over metal as apparently the chrome bonds to plastic much stronger than aluminum. Not sure if you had the chrome clad hubcaps or chrome over aluminum wheels?

But I also like the idea of a nice aggressive AT tire that will give my truck the truck look again rather than the pavement queen look it has now

So through this thread I think now my question is: What is a good AT tire in snow that is not loud or rides too rough?


As said I have run chrome rims for years in our NH winters. Take care of them and rust is not a problem. I have never had a chromed steel rim rust.

When I talk of car washes I am referring to touch free ones. It is nothing but water that touches the vehicle. No need for concern.

You are way over thinking this.