Is PU and PP analogous to M1 EP and M1?
I get the idea it is.
I do see that PP is dexos1 licensed while PU is not.
I get the idea it is.
I do see that PP is dexos1 licensed while PU is not.
Pennzoil Ultra vs. Pennzoil Platinum.
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No. M1 And M1EP are for different applications (regular versus extended drain intervals). PP and PU are more like different quality-level products for the same application- Chevy vs. Cadillac. They differ in the expense and quality of the base stocks they used, with PU being the cutting-edge gas-to-liquid base (except for PU 0w40, allegedly).
The main claim for PU over PP is that it's cleaner and besides one grade is not a clear substitute for the other. There are other technical differences between PU and PP which Pennzoil doesn't go into.
I don't think Mobil is making the same claim for EP over M1.
They are simply claiming it is EP's primarily a longer drain oil.
I don't think Mobil is making the same claim for EP over M1.
They are simply claiming it is EP's primarily a longer drain oil.
Apparently Pennzoil is giving 15 years / 500,000 mile warranty if you adhere to their schedule. Using Ulta that is.
So I gather that if the engine fails in that period that Pennzoil will pay for the repair?
So I gather that if the engine fails in that period that Pennzoil will pay for the repair?
Originally Posted By: stchman
Apparently Pennzoil is giving 15 years / 500,000 mile warranty if you adhere to their schedule. Using Ulta that is.
So I gather that if the engine fails in that period that Pennzoil will pay for the repair?
Yes. Probably very difficult to claim on it. I would be willing to say that almost any oil manufacturer could offer something similar and be in the clear.
Apparently Pennzoil is giving 15 years / 500,000 mile warranty if you adhere to their schedule. Using Ulta that is.
So I gather that if the engine fails in that period that Pennzoil will pay for the repair?
Yes. Probably very difficult to claim on it. I would be willing to say that almost any oil manufacturer could offer something similar and be in the clear.
Originally Posted By: stchman
Apparently Pennzoil is giving 15 years / 500,000 mile warranty if you adhere to their schedule. Using Ulta that is.
So I gather that if the engine fails in that period that Pennzoil will pay for the repair?
If your engine fails in that period AND you can prove it was an oil related failure, (good luck with that) then yes, they will pay for the repair.
Apparently Pennzoil is giving 15 years / 500,000 mile warranty if you adhere to their schedule. Using Ulta that is.
So I gather that if the engine fails in that period that Pennzoil will pay for the repair?
If your engine fails in that period AND you can prove it was an oil related failure, (good luck with that) then yes, they will pay for the repair.
It's always been my opinion that if an engine is going to fail, it will fail in the first 6 months of its life.
If a person changes their oil and filter every 6 months/6000 miles, the engine will outlast the rest of the vehicle easily. This is provided the user also keeps on top of the coolant and does not let the vehicle overheat.
If a person changes their oil and filter every 6 months/6000 miles, the engine will outlast the rest of the vehicle easily. This is provided the user also keeps on top of the coolant and does not let the vehicle overheat.
Originally Posted By: stchman
It's always been my opinion that if an engine is going to fail, it will fail in the first 6 months of its life.
If a person changes their oil and filter every 6 months/6000 miles, the engine will outlast the rest of the vehicle easily. This is provided the user also keeps on top of the coolant and does not let the vehicle overheat.
In the first 6 months? Your kidding right?
It's rare that a engine will fail in its first 6 months...
But there are thousands out there that fail..
It's always been my opinion that if an engine is going to fail, it will fail in the first 6 months of its life.
If a person changes their oil and filter every 6 months/6000 miles, the engine will outlast the rest of the vehicle easily. This is provided the user also keeps on top of the coolant and does not let the vehicle overheat.
In the first 6 months? Your kidding right?
It's rare that a engine will fail in its first 6 months...
But there are thousands out there that fail..
Proving oil related failure is the problem LOL..head gasket or seals might go..but you cant prove its oil related..
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
No. M1 And M1EP are for different applications (regular versus extended drain intervals). PP and PU are more like different quality-level products for the same application- Chevy vs. Cadillac. They differ in the expense and quality of the base stocks they used, with PU being the cutting-edge gas-to-liquid base (except for PU 0w40, allegedly).
I thought PYB was their Chevy product, not PP.
I don't "get" the role of PU.
No. M1 And M1EP are for different applications (regular versus extended drain intervals). PP and PU are more like different quality-level products for the same application- Chevy vs. Cadillac. They differ in the expense and quality of the base stocks they used, with PU being the cutting-edge gas-to-liquid base (except for PU 0w40, allegedly).
I thought PYB was their Chevy product, not PP.
I don't "get" the role of PU.
Originally Posted By: strat81
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
No. M1 And M1EP are for different applications (regular versus extended drain intervals). PP and PU are more like different quality-level products for the same application- Chevy vs. Cadillac. They differ in the expense and quality of the base stocks they used, with PU being the cutting-edge gas-to-liquid base (except for PU 0w40, allegedly).
I thought PYB was their Chevy product, not PP.
I don't "get" the role of PU.
I know what you mean. While I don't doubt that PU is better (by the numbers) than PP, Pennzoil has a problem when a consumer has a figure out on the shelves whether "Platinum" is their top-tier product or "Ultra" is. Reading ad copy doesn't help much, as the ad writers fall over themselves using large numbers of superlatives even for base model products.
The best they can seem to do is say that PU is better at cleaning than PP. But it takes 6 months at BITOG and reading the numbers to truly understand why PU is better. (Whether the consumer will derive any value out of that "better" is another topic).
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
No. M1 And M1EP are for different applications (regular versus extended drain intervals). PP and PU are more like different quality-level products for the same application- Chevy vs. Cadillac. They differ in the expense and quality of the base stocks they used, with PU being the cutting-edge gas-to-liquid base (except for PU 0w40, allegedly).
I thought PYB was their Chevy product, not PP.
I don't "get" the role of PU.
I know what you mean. While I don't doubt that PU is better (by the numbers) than PP, Pennzoil has a problem when a consumer has a figure out on the shelves whether "Platinum" is their top-tier product or "Ultra" is. Reading ad copy doesn't help much, as the ad writers fall over themselves using large numbers of superlatives even for base model products.
The best they can seem to do is say that PU is better at cleaning than PP. But it takes 6 months at BITOG and reading the numbers to truly understand why PU is better. (Whether the consumer will derive any value out of that "better" is another topic).
Originally Posted By: Flareside302
Originally Posted By: stchman
It's always been my opinion that if an engine is going to fail, it will fail in the first 6 months of its life.
If a person changes their oil and filter every 6 months/6000 miles, the engine will outlast the rest of the vehicle easily. This is provided the user also keeps on top of the coolant and does not let the vehicle overheat.
In the first 6 months? Your kidding right?
It's rare that a engine will fail in its first 6 months...
But there are thousands out there that fail..
I am speaking about if an engine was not put together properly when it was made.
Originally Posted By: stchman
It's always been my opinion that if an engine is going to fail, it will fail in the first 6 months of its life.
If a person changes their oil and filter every 6 months/6000 miles, the engine will outlast the rest of the vehicle easily. This is provided the user also keeps on top of the coolant and does not let the vehicle overheat.
In the first 6 months? Your kidding right?
It's rare that a engine will fail in its first 6 months...
But there are thousands out there that fail..
I am speaking about if an engine was not put together properly when it was made.
I think what was meant is that "it's either going to fail right away, or it's going to run forever".
Originally Posted By: HangFire
Originally Posted By: strat81
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
No. M1 And M1EP are for different applications (regular versus extended drain intervals). PP and PU are more like different quality-level products for the same application- Chevy vs. Cadillac. They differ in the expense and quality of the base stocks they used, with PU being the cutting-edge gas-to-liquid base (except for PU 0w40, allegedly).
I thought PYB was their Chevy product, not PP.
I don't "get" the role of PU.
I know what you mean. While I don't doubt that PU is better (by the numbers) than PP, Pennzoil has a problem when a consumer has a figure out on the shelves whether "Platinum" is their top-tier product or "Ultra" is. Reading ad copy doesn't help much, as the ad writers fall over themselves using large numbers of superlatives even for base model products.
The best they can seem to do is say that PU is better at cleaning than PP. But it takes 6 months at BITOG and reading the numbers to truly understand why PU is better. (Whether the consumer will derive any value out of that "better" is another topic).
+1
I think they have confused consumers with their product names, and that's a big reason why PU isn't selling well. "Platinum" is percieved by most consumers to be the top of the line product, so throwing "Ultra" in there makes no sense.
Right now they have PYB, then their Syn Blend is "Gold", then PP and PU.
What they should have done is made the syn blend "Silver", the current PP "Gold", and PU should be "Platinum" since it's their top of the line product.
Originally Posted By: strat81
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
No. M1 And M1EP are for different applications (regular versus extended drain intervals). PP and PU are more like different quality-level products for the same application- Chevy vs. Cadillac. They differ in the expense and quality of the base stocks they used, with PU being the cutting-edge gas-to-liquid base (except for PU 0w40, allegedly).
I thought PYB was their Chevy product, not PP.
I don't "get" the role of PU.
I know what you mean. While I don't doubt that PU is better (by the numbers) than PP, Pennzoil has a problem when a consumer has a figure out on the shelves whether "Platinum" is their top-tier product or "Ultra" is. Reading ad copy doesn't help much, as the ad writers fall over themselves using large numbers of superlatives even for base model products.
The best they can seem to do is say that PU is better at cleaning than PP. But it takes 6 months at BITOG and reading the numbers to truly understand why PU is better. (Whether the consumer will derive any value out of that "better" is another topic).
+1
I think they have confused consumers with their product names, and that's a big reason why PU isn't selling well. "Platinum" is percieved by most consumers to be the top of the line product, so throwing "Ultra" in there makes no sense.
Right now they have PYB, then their Syn Blend is "Gold", then PP and PU.
What they should have done is made the syn blend "Silver", the current PP "Gold", and PU should be "Platinum" since it's their top of the line product.
Originally Posted By: stchman
Is PU and PP analogous to M1 EP and M1?
I get the idea it is.
I do see that PP is dexos1 licensed while PU is not.
I think you have it nailed.
PU is probably a longer drain oil than PP, although there are some UOAs here of some long runs on PP, as there are with M1.
PU appears to be the better oil of the two, although it isn't a clear comparison since it is different in many respects.
Ultra would surely meet Dexos 1, but SOPUS is probably wondering just how many products it wants to pay GM licensing fees on.
Pennzoil probably should have marketed Ultra as a premium extention of the Plantinum brand, just as XOM has done with the many different flavors of M1, but that's an ongoing discussion in another thread.
Is PU and PP analogous to M1 EP and M1?
I get the idea it is.
I do see that PP is dexos1 licensed while PU is not.
I think you have it nailed.
PU is probably a longer drain oil than PP, although there are some UOAs here of some long runs on PP, as there are with M1.
PU appears to be the better oil of the two, although it isn't a clear comparison since it is different in many respects.
Ultra would surely meet Dexos 1, but SOPUS is probably wondering just how many products it wants to pay GM licensing fees on.
Pennzoil probably should have marketed Ultra as a premium extention of the Plantinum brand, just as XOM has done with the many different flavors of M1, but that's an ongoing discussion in another thread.
Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
+1
I think they have confused consumers with their product names, and that's a big reason why PU isn't selling well. "Platinum" is percieved by most consumers to be the top of the line product, so throwing "Ultra" in there makes no sense.
Right now they have PYB, then their Syn Blend is "Gold", then PP and PU.
What they should have done is made the syn blend "Silver", the current PP "Gold", and PU should be "Platinum" since it's their top of the line product.
Another option is for them to take a page from Mobil 1's playbook and create different roles for their premium oils.
Mobil 1 offers several sub-brands: regular, high mileage, fuel economy, extended OCI, etc.
Perhaps Pennzoil should have stuck with Pennzoil Platinum and termed Ultra "Platinum Super Clean" or something like that.
I'll also add that "Defy" is a confusing name. Defy what? Time? The government? A bossy wife? Other oil companies?
+1
I think they have confused consumers with their product names, and that's a big reason why PU isn't selling well. "Platinum" is percieved by most consumers to be the top of the line product, so throwing "Ultra" in there makes no sense.
Right now they have PYB, then their Syn Blend is "Gold", then PP and PU.
What they should have done is made the syn blend "Silver", the current PP "Gold", and PU should be "Platinum" since it's their top of the line product.
Another option is for them to take a page from Mobil 1's playbook and create different roles for their premium oils.
Mobil 1 offers several sub-brands: regular, high mileage, fuel economy, extended OCI, etc.
Perhaps Pennzoil should have stuck with Pennzoil Platinum and termed Ultra "Platinum Super Clean" or something like that.
I'll also add that "Defy" is a confusing name. Defy what? Time? The government? A bossy wife? Other oil companies?
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Originally Posted By: strat81
Perhaps Pennzoil should have stuck with Pennzoil Platinum and termed Ultra "Platinum Super Clean" or something like that.
I'll also add that "Defy" is a confusing name. Defy what? Time? The government? A bossy wife? Other oil companies?
I agree on both. I used Ultra for about 70,000 miles over several OCIs in my FX4. I always thought the marketing was far too weak (not everyone assumes an oil made/good enough for a Ferrari works in their application) and Pennzoil would have had better luck extending the Platinum line (Pennzoil Ultra Platinum) or choosing a name that is "above" platinum such as Pennzoil Titanium.
While I believe QS intends for Defy to defy wear (i.e. slow or eliminate wear), there could have been many other ways to achieve a more clearly defined market space (i.e. QS Retro comes to mind).
Perhaps Pennzoil should have stuck with Pennzoil Platinum and termed Ultra "Platinum Super Clean" or something like that.
I'll also add that "Defy" is a confusing name. Defy what? Time? The government? A bossy wife? Other oil companies?
I agree on both. I used Ultra for about 70,000 miles over several OCIs in my FX4. I always thought the marketing was far too weak (not everyone assumes an oil made/good enough for a Ferrari works in their application) and Pennzoil would have had better luck extending the Platinum line (Pennzoil Ultra Platinum) or choosing a name that is "above" platinum such as Pennzoil Titanium.
While I believe QS intends for Defy to defy wear (i.e. slow or eliminate wear), there could have been many other ways to achieve a more clearly defined market space (i.e. QS Retro comes to mind).
Originally Posted By: stchman
I am speaking about if an engine was not put together properly when it was made.
Right, and in such a case, it's not the oil company's problem. With respect to most of the oil companies' warranties, I'm skeptical about most of them. Ironically, I find XOM's to be the most straightforward and honest.
Most companies are a little silly when they try to have a time limit or limit OCIs to 3000 miles and under only or excessively push exclusivity. Realistically, if an oil causes a failure and you chose the correct oil and filter and followed appropriate maintenance practices and can prove the oil was the issue, the oil company will be on the hook, end of story. Of course, I'm defining some very, very specific circumstances. I doubt that oil companies' warranties need to be as specifically worded as they are. That is what I like about M1's warranty.
It's a 10000 mile (or longer, depending on factory OCI) warranty. All it really asks you to do, aside from the appropriate OCI, is to ensure you use the proper viscosity and a specified filter and not have pre-existing conditions.
On the other hand, with QS's payout warranty, I do understand their demand for product loyalty. If they are to pay you some cash after some obscene amount of miles, they have every right to have expected that you use QS for almost the entire time.
I am speaking about if an engine was not put together properly when it was made.
Right, and in such a case, it's not the oil company's problem. With respect to most of the oil companies' warranties, I'm skeptical about most of them. Ironically, I find XOM's to be the most straightforward and honest.
Most companies are a little silly when they try to have a time limit or limit OCIs to 3000 miles and under only or excessively push exclusivity. Realistically, if an oil causes a failure and you chose the correct oil and filter and followed appropriate maintenance practices and can prove the oil was the issue, the oil company will be on the hook, end of story. Of course, I'm defining some very, very specific circumstances. I doubt that oil companies' warranties need to be as specifically worded as they are. That is what I like about M1's warranty.
It's a 10000 mile (or longer, depending on factory OCI) warranty. All it really asks you to do, aside from the appropriate OCI, is to ensure you use the proper viscosity and a specified filter and not have pre-existing conditions.
On the other hand, with QS's payout warranty, I do understand their demand for product loyalty. If they are to pay you some cash after some obscene amount of miles, they have every right to have expected that you use QS for almost the entire time.
surprised that the noack is so high conpared to amsoil signsture series 5-30 to 5-30, pour point is not as lo either. their web readily shows PDF specs for ultra but can't find it for platinum?? also just seen some better specs for pennz, whats new whats old, they change faster than a womans mind!!!!
Originally Posted By: strat81
I'll also add that "Defy" is a confusing name. Defy what? Time? The government? A bossy wife? Other oil companies?
"Don't lie about you age, Defy it."
I'll also add that "Defy" is a confusing name. Defy what? Time? The government? A bossy wife? Other oil companies?
"Don't lie about you age, Defy it."
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