Recent Topics
oil filter cutters
by mjoekingz28
08/03/15 10:07 PM
Need help -- wood stain spilled on truck
by gfh77665
08/03/15 10:03 PM
2011 Honda Accord....thoughts/w
ho owns one?

by gregk24
08/03/15 09:52 PM
Mystik 15/50 SM/CJ4 - 2014 Road King - 2,809 Miles
by alarmguy
08/03/15 09:42 PM
"Core Temp" - CPU Temperature Monitoring
by ZeeOSix
08/03/15 09:34 PM
What could this be a symptom of?
by Rolomoto
08/03/15 09:28 PM
Cubcadet 54" cut kohler 24hp 7000 motor
by dslofti
08/03/15 09:03 PM
camping
by spasm3
08/03/15 08:55 PM
Yamaha vs. Fram TG vs. Bosch vs. Puro oil filters
by bmwpowere36m3
08/03/15 08:44 PM
alignment issues
by motor_oil_madman
08/03/15 08:41 PM
Jws3309 spec for Toyota t -iv?
by zach1900
08/03/15 07:33 PM
Backing into parking spots
by mclasser
08/03/15 07:23 PM
Newest Members
ptkdude, Warwagon, SWFL, frodo84, eric4ok
54919 Registered Users
Who's Online
79 registered (Atlantis, aquariuscsm, AirgunSavant, alarmguy, AP9, 901Memphis, 7 invisible), 1537 Guests and 111 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
54918 Members
66 Forums
235366 Topics
3786865 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 ... 9 10 >
Topic Options
#3156392 - 10/15/13 10:10 AM 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil
CMB Offline


Registered: 03/05/08
Posts: 70
Loc: SE Michigan
Hello guys, any suggestions on what to run in this motor? The engine is a 2.0 VM turbo diesel

I have a real hard time believing GM when they say to run standard dexos 2 5w-30 and not a diesel spec'd oil.
_________________________
1999 Taurus 3.0 Vulcan 5w-30 Valvoline Synpower
2003 Grand Am GT 3.4L 5w-30 dealer dino fill
2004 Grand Cherokee 4.7L 5w-30 Pennzoil Platinum


Top
#3156396 - 10/15/13 10:17 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
volk06 Offline


Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 4428
Loc: Iowa
DEXOS 2 is a diesel engine spec. However, good luck finding a 5w30 DEXOS 2 oil in the US besides the dealer AC Delco.

GM does allow you to use a engine oil meeting ACEA C3 if you cant find a DEXOS 2 in 5w-30. Not sure how much that will help the search.

"Use of Substitute Engine Oils if
dexos2 is unavailable: In the event
that dexos2-approved engine oil is
not available at an oil change or for
maintaining proper oil level, you
may use substitute engine oil that
meets ACEA C3 of the appropriate
viscosity grade."
_________________________
2011 F-150 Ecoboost
2012 Focus S
2001 Taurus

Top
#3156404 - 10/15/13 10:24 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 5191
Loc: Michigan
Believe it. dexos2 is GM's spec for passenger car diesel oils in Europe. When we were planning some tests on their passenger car diesel, GM sent us Mobil Super 3000 Formula G in 5-gallon cans. It's low ash to protect the DPF, and is dexos2 licensed. I don't know how available it is in the US. I had to download the spec sheet from Mobil's UK site.


Edited by A_Harman (10/15/13 10:25 AM)
_________________________
1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck

Top
#3156410 - 10/15/13 10:32 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
NateDN10 Offline


Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 1508
Loc: Rochester, NY
For what it's worth, oils like Castrol SLX Professional 5W-30 and Mobil1 ESP Formula 5W-30 meet the ACEA C3 requirement.
_________________________
2005 Chevrolet Cobalt - 90,000 mi.
2012 Mazda5 - 70,000 mi.

Top
#3156422 - 10/15/13 10:51 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
WishIhadatruck Offline


Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 1300
Loc: Grand Rapids, MI
Not sure how many of these are available here in the USA.

http://www.gmdexos.com/licensedbrands/dexos2licensedbrands.html
_________________________
1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon
2014 Cruze Eco Manual
2003 2500 Suburban, 8.1L

Top
#3156456 - 10/15/13 11:24 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
vinu_neuro Offline


Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1019
Loc: Chicago / IN
Castrol Edge Professional OE 5W-30 is on that list. You can get it at VW and BMW dealers. It's $6.50-8 / qt. How much is the AC Delco oil?
_________________________
04 Honda Accord Coupe V6 6MT | M1 EP 0W-20

Top
#3156459 - 10/15/13 11:26 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
Brybo86 Online   content


Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 1165
Loc: Chicago, IL
Castrol Edge 5W-40
AAP has it on sale with now 5 quarts and a Fram Ultra filter for 29.99....? not bad


Edited by Brybo86 (10/15/13 11:27 AM)
_________________________
08 Honda Accord EX-L 2.4L Amsoil SS 0w20 104k
01 Kymco People 50
95 Lexus LS400 Amsoil SS 0w30 175k
95 Yamaha Jog
86 Kawasaki 454Ltd Rotella 15w40 17k

Top
#3156514 - 10/15/13 11:58 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
Chriznat20@msn.com Offline


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 897
Loc: Michigan
So people will:

1.) Pay a premium for a diesel engine in the Cruze

2.) Pay anywhere from $.25-$.60 MORE per gallon for diesel over gasoline here in Michigan

3.) Have to buy Dexos2 oil at the dealer for $6-$8+ per QUART

What are the economic advantages of opting for a diesel engine over the gasoline engine they put in the Cruze Eco again?


Edited by Chriznat20@msn.com (10/15/13 11:58 AM)
_________________________
12 Prius
29k miles Toyota 0w20
05 Jeep GC-4.7l
105k miles Edge
97 FW Vista 278
T-4.3Gi 185hrs&
4kw genset 17hrs- T5

Top
#3156551 - 10/15/13 12:26 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
pavelow Offline


Registered: 11/24/09
Posts: 558
Loc: Orange Park, FL
Originally Posted By: CMB
Hello guys, any suggestions on what to run in this motor? The engine is a 2.0 VM turbo diesel

I have a real hard time believing GM when they say to run standard dexos 2 5w-30 and not a diesel spec'd oil.


Calling a diesel ENGINE a motor. LMAO.
_________________________
06 Pontiac GTO LS2
08 Chevy TrailBlazer SS LS2


Top
#3157082 - 10/15/13 08:41 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 7551
Loc: Florida
I am fairly certain that many European brands carry Dexos 2, because GM has sold so many diesels in Europe over so many years.
_________________________
2010 Lancer Ralliart Sportback

Top
#3157587 - 10/16/13 10:41 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
zloveraz Offline


Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 857
Loc: Plano, TX
2014 Cruze doesn't have the VM Diesel engine it has the GM VCDi "Z" family engine.

However still require the same oil cert, DEXOS 2.
_________________________
11 G37S, QSUD, microGreen MG101-7
14 BMW F800GS Adventure

Top
#3158727 - 10/17/13 11:42 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Chriznat20@msn.com]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1208
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Chriznat20@msn.com
So people will:



2.) Pay anywhere from $.25-$.60 MORE per gallon for diesel over gasoline here in Michigan



What are the economic advantages of opting for a diesel engine over the gasoline engine they put in the Cruze Eco again?


Where I live diesel is a few cents more than mid octane gasoline and cheaper than the highest octane gasoline.

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

Top
#3158859 - 10/17/13 01:32 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Chriznat20@msn.com]
Bangagong Offline


Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Chriznat20@msn.com
So people will:

1.) Pay a premium for a diesel engine in the Cruze

2.) Pay anywhere from $.25-$.60 MORE per gallon for diesel over gasoline here in Michigan

3.) Have to buy Dexos2 oil at the dealer for $6-$8+ per QUART

What are the economic advantages of opting for a diesel engine over the gasoline engine they put in the Cruze Eco again?
For me with my Jetta TDi, the fuel economy gains only slightly justify the gasoline-diesel cost per gallon (diesel is often the most expensive fuel here in south Florida). However, the 10K OCIs even out the oil cost and my labor. The biggest selling point with a diesel is what it always has been . . . TORQUE. I'll take my torquey TDi any day over a limp gas car claiming similar economy (45 mpg highway).
_________________________
2010 Jetta TDi - 2012 Challenger SRT8 - 2001 Viper - 2009 Moto Guzzi Griso

Top
#3159021 - 10/17/13 04:13 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
2oldtommy Offline


Registered: 10/29/06
Posts: 853
Loc: Ohio
Looks like Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 is on the dexos2 list. I believe this is available at many Walmarts IIRC. Check it out. FWIW

Oldtommy

Top
#3159236 - 10/17/13 07:27 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: pavelow]
stchman Offline


Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 787
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: pavelow
Originally Posted By: CMB
Hello guys, any suggestions on what to run in this motor? The engine is a 2.0 VM turbo diesel

I have a real hard time believing GM when they say to run standard dexos 2 5w-30 and not a diesel spec'd oil.


Calling a diesel ENGINE a motor. LMAO.


I know, I wish people would call the engine and engine.

In the automotive world, motors are electric and engines are internal combustion. I will get people that will spit out the Webster's Dictionary definition for motor, this is why I preface "automotive world".

When you say "motor" and you refer to a Prius, which motor are they talking about?
_________________________
2013 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ 2WD 5.3L
Mobil 1 5W-30
AC Delco PF48

Top
#3159241 - 10/17/13 07:29 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Chriznat20@msn.com]
stchman Offline


Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 787
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: Chriznat20@msn.com
So people will:

1.) Pay a premium for a diesel engine in the Cruze

2.) Pay anywhere from $.25-$.60 MORE per gallon for diesel over gasoline here in Michigan

3.) Have to buy Dexos2 oil at the dealer for $6-$8+ per QUART

What are the economic advantages of opting for a diesel engine over the gasoline engine they put in the Cruze Eco again?


The Cruze diesel gets better fuel economy than a Cruze Eco, and most people report that they are getting ~50MPG on the highway with a Cruze diesel and some are lucky to get the 42MPG that the Cruze Eco gets.
_________________________
2013 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ 2WD 5.3L
Mobil 1 5W-30
AC Delco PF48

Top
#3159247 - 10/17/13 07:32 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: 2oldtommy]
stchman Offline


Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 787
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: 2oldtommy
Looks like Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 is on the dexos2 list. I believe this is available at many Walmarts IIRC. Check it out. FWIW

Oldtommy


And that's the WRONG viscosity for the Cruze diesel. The Cruze diesel calls for dexos2 5W-30.
_________________________
2013 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ 2WD 5.3L
Mobil 1 5W-30
AC Delco PF48

Top
#3159249 - 10/17/13 07:33 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
cruzediesel Offline


Registered: 10/17/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Long time listener first time caller

I took delivery of a 2014 diesel Cruze TD four weeks ago. It is powered by a GM Family B 2.0 diesel. This engine is designed by Fiat and is manufactured in Germany. This is mated to an Aisin AF40-6 automatic transmission.

The car currently just turned over 2000 miles and achieved 52 MPG on the last tank of fuel (hand calculated). This was purchased for my wife’s commute of about 100 miles per day round trip 90% highway. The car came with 24,000 miles of free maintenance which includes oil changes. I inquired with the dealer and they will indeed be using Mobil Super 3000 Formula G 5W30 for the free oil changes. They were also aware of the fact that the Dexos 2 oil is not readily available in the US. I was told that as long as the oil is ACEA C3 and also 5W30 there would be no warranty issues (Powertrain is 5Year/100,000 miles). There is a group of us waiting for a response from GM on this in writing.

I am still trying to determine which oil to run in this once the free changes are done, and it looks like the only restrictions are ACEA C3 and 5W30. I plan on doing UOAs once I figure out when I am going to run. In the meantime I will enjoy driving the little torque monster.
_________________________
08 Ram1500 4.7 6MT 4X4 PP 5w20
14 Cruze TD 2.0 ??

Top
#3159319 - 10/17/13 08:21 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
cruzediesel Offline


Registered: 10/17/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
One more quick thing. It also states in the manual that 0w30 can be used in cold temperatures to ease engine startup.
_________________________
08 Ram1500 4.7 6MT 4X4 PP 5w20
14 Cruze TD 2.0 ??

Top
#3159428 - 10/17/13 10:15 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: stchman]
99Saturn Offline


Registered: 02/25/13
Posts: 1227
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: stchman
The Cruze diesel gets better fuel economy than a Cruze Eco, and most people report that they are getting ~50MPG on the highway with a Cruze diesel and some are lucky to get the 42MPG that the Cruze Eco gets.

Interesting... the vast majority of what I have heard regarding the ECO is preforming at or above the estimates, often well over 42 mpg.

Top
#3159437 - 10/17/13 10:24 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: pavelow]
friendly_jacek Offline


Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 6285
Loc: southeast US
Originally Posted By: pavelow


Calling a diesel ENGINE a motor. LMAO.


LOL, engine = motor.

Like electric locomotive engine and motor boat.

Top
#3159618 - 10/18/13 07:06 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: m37charlie]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 13623
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Where I live diesel is a few cents more than mid octane gasoline and cheaper than the highest octane gasoline.

OT, but in your neck of the woods, do you get a seasonal difference in diesel prices? Here, diesel is cheaper than gasoline in the summer, but when fall hits, the price of diesel jumps above that of gas (but usually still less than premium).
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#3159847 - 10/18/13 12:04 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1208
Loc: Alaska
yes, #1 diesel is a bit more expensive (but less dense) than #2.

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

Top
#3160545 - 10/19/13 08:18 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: friendly_jacek]
Silverado12 Offline


Registered: 02/26/13
Posts: 1268
Loc: Central Virginia
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: pavelow


Calling a diesel ENGINE a motor. LMAO.


LOL, engine = motor.

Like electric locomotive engine and motor boat.


Why, haven't you ever heard of an engine boat lol?
_________________________
2012 Chevy Silverado ext. cab LS, 2WD 4.3 auto
2010 Dodge Challenger SE 3.5 V-6
2007 Harley Dyna Street Bob 96 c.i. 6 speed

Top
#3160926 - 10/19/13 04:40 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: friendly_jacek]
adamrc Offline


Registered: 06/04/05
Posts: 165
Loc: Nashville, TN
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: pavelow


Calling a diesel ENGINE a motor. LMAO.


LOL, engine = motor.

Like electric locomotive engine and motor boat.


Maybe we should rename this category in the forum since it's titled "Passenger Car Motor Oil". We could rename it to "Passenger Car Engine Oil".

Top
#3162734 - 10/21/13 02:52 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: stchman]
Chriznat20@msn.com Offline


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 897
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: stchman
The Cruze diesel gets better fuel economy than a Cruze Eco, and most people report that they are getting ~50MPG on the highway with a Cruze diesel and some are lucky to get the 42MPG that the Cruze Eco gets.


Thats interesting because those people obviously have never heard of or reported their mileage to Fuelly.com :
http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze/2014

There is like 1 person with a 2014 Cruze Diesel who is reporting 51.1mpg average. The rest of the diesel engine owners are averaging mid-low 40's and below.

As a matter of fact, the majority of people with the Cruze diesel are reporting 39-40mpg or less - Hardly the 50mpg+ like you assert "most people" are reporting getting.


Edited by Chriznat20@msn.com (10/21/13 02:58 PM)
_________________________
12 Prius
29k miles Toyota 0w20
05 Jeep GC-4.7l
105k miles Edge
97 FW Vista 278
T-4.3Gi 185hrs&
4kw genset 17hrs- T5

Top
#3163669 - 10/22/13 11:41 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Chriznat20@msn.com]
rhhsiao Offline


Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 185
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: Chriznat20@msn.com
Originally Posted By: stchman
The Cruze diesel gets better fuel economy than a Cruze Eco, and most people report that they are getting ~50MPG on the highway with a Cruze diesel and some are lucky to get the 42MPG that the Cruze Eco gets.


Thats interesting because those people obviously have never heard of or reported their mileage to Fuelly.com :
http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze/2014

There is like 1 person with a 2014 Cruze Diesel who is reporting 51.1mpg average. The rest of the diesel engine owners are averaging mid-low 40's and below.

As a matter of fact, the majority of people with the Cruze diesel are reporting 39-40mpg or less - Hardly the 50mpg+ like you assert "most people" are reporting getting.


Not to be nitpicky, but it is possible they're getting 50MPG on the highway as stchman said compared to the other Cruze models. I assume the numbers presented on Fuelly are some combination of city/highway driving. Thus, if you compare the combined MPGs using gas vs diesel, you still tend to see the diesel models with higher average MPG which is likely being pulled upwards due to the highway cruising efficiency of a diesel. Additionally, you said "the majority of people" are reporting 39-40MPG or less. In fact, based on the link you provided, it's about 50/50 for people who have below 40MPG vs above 40MPG.

Top
#3163672 - 10/22/13 11:42 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Chriznat20@msn.com]
rrounds Offline


Registered: 07/05/07
Posts: 593
Loc: SACRAMENTO, CA
Originally Posted By: Chriznat20@msn.com
Originally Posted By: stchman
The Cruze diesel gets better fuel economy than a Cruze Eco, and most people report that they are getting ~50MPG on the highway with a Cruze diesel and some are lucky to get the 42MPG that the Cruze Eco gets.


Thats interesting because those people obviously have never heard of or reported their mileage to Fuelly.com :
http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze/2014

There is like 1 person with a 2014 Cruze Diesel who is reporting 51.1mpg average. The rest of the diesel engine owners are averaging mid-low 40's and below.

As a matter of fact, the majority of people with the Cruze diesel are reporting 39-40mpg or less - Hardly the 50mpg+ like you assert "most people" are reporting getting.

Yes, I love Fuelly to see how the cars I'm looking at perform at the pump.
Looks like around 30.8 for 2014 gas engines.
http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze/gas%20l4
and 41.3 for the 2014 diesel
http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze/diesel%20l4
That's 34% better mileage for the diesel.

ROD
_________________________
'06 S2000
'00 SSEi sold at 252k miles
'08 Ford F53 V10
'13 Jeep Sahara 2 door

Top
#3163704 - 10/22/13 12:15 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: rrounds]
99Saturn Offline


Registered: 02/25/13
Posts: 1227
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: rrounds
Yes, I love Fuelly to see how the cars I'm looking at perform at the pump.
Looks like around 30.8 for 2014 gas engines.
http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze/gas%20l4
and 41.3 for the 2014 diesel
http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze/diesel%20l4
That's 34% better mileage for the diesel.

ROD


One thing I noticed looking at these two links is the size of the datasets on the above links are much different:
2014 gas are 7 cars, 30 fuelups, and 8,300 miles tracked
2014 diesel are 23 cars, 222 fuelups, 95,000 miles

There may be some other factors at work - particularly talking about a dataset of 7 gas engines (miles on the car, drivers adjusting, to new cars, error from small dataset). The gas engines mpg estimates for 2013 and 2012 were 33.4 and 33.7 respectively.

The gas dataset is also going to have a variety of models which have EPA estimates as well as the different estimates for manual versus auto transmission.

I would think for the gas estimates any LS Auto is going to skew the average way down while the ECO Manual would bring it up, but then driving conditions would have to be accounted for too...I've seen the same debate brought up on the LS versus 1LT versus Eco cost to purchase vertsus cost of gas over he lifetime of the vehicle, at least to me it never seems a clear cut answer.

Top
#3165080 - 10/23/13 02:40 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: rrounds]
Chriznat20@msn.com Offline


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 897
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: rrounds

Yes, I love Fuelly to see how the cars I'm looking at perform at the pump.
Looks like around 30.8 for 2014 gas engines.
http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze/gas%20l4
and 41.3 for the 2014 diesel
http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze/diesel%20l4
That's 34% better mileage for the diesel.

ROD


ROD, Looking at the 2014 data from fuelly.com, its easy to see that 41.3mpg isn't for just diesel Cruzes, but ALL 2014's. Doh!

And the highest Cruze mpg from a diesel was 51.1mpg. But oops! That person is from Canada, eh? Imperial gallons. 51.1 IMPERIAL gallons = 42mpg in US gallons.

Anyways, moving forward...


Edited by Chriznat20@msn.com (10/23/13 02:43 PM)
_________________________
12 Prius
29k miles Toyota 0w20
05 Jeep GC-4.7l
105k miles Edge
97 FW Vista 278
T-4.3Gi 185hrs&
4kw genset 17hrs- T5

Top
#3165273 - 10/23/13 05:23 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Chriznat20@msn.com]
rrounds Offline


Registered: 07/05/07
Posts: 593
Loc: SACRAMENTO, CA
Originally Posted By: Chriznat20@msn.com
Originally Posted By: rrounds

Yes, I love Fuelly to see how the cars I'm looking at perform at the pump.
Looks like around 30.8 for 2014 gas engines.
http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze/gas%20l4
and 41.3 for the 2014 diesel
http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze/diesel%20l4
That's 34% better mileage for the diesel.

ROD


ROD, Looking at the 2014 data from fuelly.com, its easy to see that 41.3mpg isn't for just diesel Cruzes, but ALL 2014's. Doh!

And the highest Cruze mpg from a diesel was 51.1mpg. But oops! That person is from Canada, eh? Imperial gallons. 51.1 IMPERIAL gallons = 42mpg in US gallons.

Anyways, moving forward...

You better look again, it says 23 diesel cars and if you count you will find 23 diesel Cruzes. The mpg is just for the diesel Cruze cars. If you add the gas engines the mpg will go down, not up.

ROD
_________________________
'06 S2000
'00 SSEi sold at 252k miles
'08 Ford F53 V10
'13 Jeep Sahara 2 door

Top
#3165507 - 10/23/13 08:33 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 7551
Loc: Florida
So the diesel engine uses less fuel....
How much are people spending on DEF? If the car requires a large amount of it, it would make a huge difference in cost per mile.
_________________________
2010 Lancer Ralliart Sportback

Top
#3165542 - 10/23/13 08:55 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: cruzediesel]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 9241
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: Chriznat20@msn.com
So people will:

1.) Pay a premium for a diesel engine in the Cruze

2.) Pay anywhere from $.25-$.60 MORE per gallon for diesel over gasoline here in Michigan

3.) Have to buy Dexos2 oil at the dealer for $6-$8+ per QUART

What are the economic advantages of opting for a diesel engine over the gasoline engine they put in the Cruze Eco again?
Originally Posted By: cruzediesel
One more quick thing. It also states in the manual that 0w30 can be used in cold temperatures to ease engine startup.


Aren't they a really low emissions engine.

Originally Posted By: cruzediesel
One more quick thing. It also states in the manual that 0w30 can be used in cold temperatures to ease engine startup.



I wonder if devlac elite 222 0w-30 is on their approved list?
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

Top
#3166220 - 10/24/13 12:52 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Chriznat20@msn.com]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 5191
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Chriznat20@msn.com
And the highest Cruze mpg from a diesel was 51.1mpg. But oops! That person is from Canada, eh? Imperial gallons. 51.1 IMPERIAL gallons = 42mpg in US gallons.

Anyways, moving forward...


I was in Canada last August, and bought fuel by the liter, not Imperial Gallons.
_________________________
1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck

Top
#3166349 - 10/24/13 02:37 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: A_Harman]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 29400
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: Chriznat20@msn.com
And the highest Cruze mpg from a diesel was 51.1mpg. But oops! That person is from Canada, eh? Imperial gallons. 51.1 IMPERIAL gallons = 42mpg in US gallons.

Anyways, moving forward...


I was in Canada last August, and bought fuel by the liter, not Imperial Gallons.


Correct, we don't use gallons. And when we convert from L/100Km to gallons we can certainly choose to do either Imperial or US gallons, it really isn't that difficult.... Its not like we are ONLY allowed to convert to Imperial or something crzy LOL!
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
06 Charger R/T
14 Charger SRT-8

Top
#3166388 - 10/24/13 03:09 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 5191
Loc: Michigan
What do most people think of in Canada when converting to gallons, standard or Imperial?
_________________________
1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck

Top
#3166406 - 10/24/13 03:19 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: A_Harman]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 29400
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
What do most people think of in Canada when converting to gallons, standard or Imperial?


US gallons AFAIK. Nobody uses Imperial.
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
06 Charger R/T
14 Charger SRT-8

Top
#3166985 - 10/25/13 01:05 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
Quest Offline


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 7064
Loc: beaver land EH?
Canadian dealers typically cheat a bit by posting miles in imperial gal (4.5L/Gal) to get a more impressive fuel mileage chart on their car lots.

If it's go with Litres/km...then the reflected fuel mileage should be accurate so long as the proper US gal/mile to km conversion is done correctly.

Q.
_________________________
"Internet discussion boards act as echo chambers for conspiracy dittoheads" A.Allen

Top
#3167002 - 10/25/13 02:08 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: OVERKILL]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 13623
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
US gallons AFAIK. Nobody uses Imperial.

Well, there are some. If it's an old codger who bought gas when it was still sold in Imperial gallons (I am not one of those, by the way wink ), then they'll use Imperial gallons. My Town Car, however, used American gallons if I switched off of metric.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#3168703 - 10/26/13 07:24 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: artificialist]
rrounds Offline


Registered: 07/05/07
Posts: 593
Loc: SACRAMENTO, CA
Originally Posted By: artificialist
So the diesel engine uses less fuel....
How much are people spending on DEF? If the car requires a large amount of it, it would make a huge difference in cost per mile.

I have no idea how much DEF the Cruze will use, but I've found it for $4.50 a gal.
My big concern is how long will the engine and drivetrain last?

If you have to rebuild the transmission every 100k miles, then its not cost effective. I like to see how the repair record goes for a car for the first few years before I put my cash down on a vehicle.

If the Cruze diesel gets good marks for reliability then it's resale will be higher than the gas model(with the same miles) to get you more money on the back side when you sell it.

ROD
_________________________
'06 S2000
'00 SSEi sold at 252k miles
'08 Ford F53 V10
'13 Jeep Sahara 2 door

Top
#3168849 - 10/26/13 10:17 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Brybo86]
BlazerLT Offline


Registered: 08/15/04
Posts: 2359
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Brybo86
Castrol Edge 5W-40
AAP has it on sale with now 5 quarts and a Fram Ultra filter for 29.99....? not bad


It calls for 5w30. People need to stop default recommending a 40 weight oil for a diesel.

Top
#3168972 - 10/27/13 03:47 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: BlazerLT]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 13623
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Old habits are hard to break, though, and there are some real traps out there that will catch you. With this, at least, you expect something odd thanks to the dexos2 specification. I've seen diesel OPE with no interesting specifications that happens to call for a 10w-30 HDEO. A 40 grade has been the norm for so long, and without having a manual in one's hand, a 40 grade is a good guess, but no more than that.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#3178270 - 11/04/13 02:04 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: artificialist]
jayg Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 422
Loc: Acworth, GA
Originally Posted By: artificialist
So the diesel engine uses less fuel....
How much are people spending on DEF? If the car requires a large amount of it, it would make a huge difference in cost per mile.


DEF is cheap and the TDI Passat people usually top off at about 10k intervals for roughly 15-20 bucks. I'd imagine its similar in this motor.
_________________________
'14 Jeep Wrangler Sport S 6sp 10k OCI PYB 5w20
'73 Datsun 240Z 4sp (AutoX) Vintage QS 10w40
'91 Honda CB250 Nighthawk (Cafe modded)VBB 20w50


Top
#3195353 - 11/23/13 01:36 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: stchman]
BigBird57 Offline


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 233
Loc: Florida
Do not feel bad even engineers call a "water heater" a hot water heater. Go figure.
_________________________
It is ok to expect, however you have to inspect.
2002 Tahoe 5.3 PU 5w-30
2011 Toyota Sienna V6 PP-0w-20

Top
#3196877 - 11/24/13 05:59 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
blackman777 Offline


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 981
Loc: Santa Ana, California
Originally Posted By: CMB
I have a real hard time believing GM when they say to run standard dexos 2 5w-30 and not a diesel spec'd oil.

But Dexos *2* is not standard oil. It's a diesel oil. Also GM is not the only one recommending 5w-30, since VW also recommends that same weight (carrying the VW 507 spec if I recall correctly).
So:
What's it like driving the new diesel Cruze? I would love to take one for a testdrive.

Top
#3196884 - 11/24/13 06:04 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Chriznat20@msn.com]
blackman777 Offline


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 981
Loc: Santa Ana, California
"Engine" is the term used in physics too, not just automotive world. It is a shortened form of the terminology "Heat Engine" which describes conversion of a burning fuel into heat, which is then used to move a piston (or similar object). An electric motor or generator doesn't fit that definition, which is why the new words were invented.
Originally Posted By: Chriznat20@msn.com
1.) Pay a premium for a diesel engine. 2.) Pay anywhere from $.25-$.60 MORE per gallon for diesel over gasoline. 3.) Have to buy Dexos2 oil for $6-$8+ per QUART

What are the economic advantages of opting for a diesel engine over the gasoline engine they put in the Cruze Eco again?

Very little.
Since diesel MPGs have dropped from ~50 to ~42, and gasoline MPGs have risen from ~30 to ~42 (CruzeEco and others), there's very little point to buying a diesel instead of the gasser.


Edited by blackman777 (11/24/13 06:17 PM)

Top
#3196919 - 11/24/13 06:31 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: rrounds]
blackman777 Offline


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 981
Loc: Santa Ana, California
Originally Posted By: rrounds
I have no idea how much DEF the Cruze will use, but I've found it for $4.50 a gal.

If I owned a Cruze Diesel I would run it dry of the DEF urea, and save some money. The car will keep running another 700 miles like that (albeit at a speed limit or 65).

CruzeEco customer MPGs stored at fueleconomy.gov show approximately 35 mpg. That's only a few shy of the diesel version, but runs on MUCH cheaper fuel. Doing some quick math, I have to ask: Where's the savings?

CruzeEco == 10 cents/mile
CruseTDI == 9 cents/mile + $5000 diesel premium over 200,000 miles (2.5 c/m) == 11.5 cents/mile





Edited by blackman777 (11/24/13 06:34 PM)

Top
#3197529 - 11/25/13 11:05 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: stchman]
1999nick Offline


Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 1087
Loc: Germantown TN 38138
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: pavelow
Originally Posted By: CMB
Hello guys, any suggestions on what to run in this motor? The engine is a 2.0 VM turbo diesel

I have a real hard time believing GM when they say to run standard dexos 2 5w-30 and not a diesel spec'd oil.


Calling a diesel ENGINE a motor. LMAO.


I know, I wish people would call the engine and engine.

In the automotive world, motors are electric and engines are internal combustion. I will get people that will spit out the Webster's Dictionary definition for motor, this is why I preface "automotive world".

You "engine" guys need to straighten out the General Motors Corporation and the Ford Motor Company.

When you say "motor" and you refer to a Prius, which motor are they talking about?

Top
#3197580 - 11/25/13 11:35 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: blackman777]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: rrounds
I have no idea how much DEF the Cruze will use, but I've found it for $4.50 a gal.

If I owned a Cruze Diesel I would run it dry of the DEF urea, and save some money. The car will keep running another 700 miles like that (albeit at a speed limit or 65).

CruzeEco customer MPGs stored at fueleconomy.gov show approximately 35 mpg. That's only a few shy of the diesel version, but runs on MUCH cheaper fuel. Doing some quick math, I have to ask: Where's the savings?

CruzeEco == 10 cents/mile
CruseTDI == 9 cents/mile + $5000 diesel premium over 200,000 miles (2.5 c/m) == 11.5 cents/mile





Usually the diesel is sold with more standard options so the price difference is significantly less when you compare a similarly optioned gasser.

For example my car was about $1100 more than the comparable gasser (335i).



Edited by BMWTurboDzl (11/25/13 11:39 AM)
_________________________
'15 435i - BMW branded Shell 5w30.
Prev
'10 335d
'06 330i
'03 330i

Top
#3197710 - 11/25/13 01:21 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: blackman777]
rrounds Offline


Registered: 07/05/07
Posts: 593
Loc: SACRAMENTO, CA
Originally Posted By: blackman777
"Engine" is the term used in physics too, not just automotive world. It is a shortened form of the terminology "Heat Engine" which describes conversion of a burning fuel into heat, which is then used to move a piston (or similar object). An electric motor or generator doesn't fit that definition, which is why the new words were invented.
Originally Posted By: Chriznat20@msn.com
1.) Pay a premium for a diesel engine. 2.) Pay anywhere from $.25-$.60 MORE per gallon for diesel over gasoline. 3.) Have to buy Dexos2 oil for $6-$8+ per QUART

What are the economic advantages of opting for a diesel engine over the gasoline engine they put in the Cruze Eco again?

Very little.
Since diesel MPGs have dropped from ~50 to ~42, and gasoline MPGs have risen from ~30 to ~42 (CruzeEco and others), there's very little point to buying a diesel instead of the gasser.


I don't see the mpg that your seeing.
For the gas engine(2013) it has a 32.8 Avg. mpg(30.3 mpg for the 2014 gas engine) while the diesel engine(2014) has a 40.7 Avg. mpg

http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze/gas%20l4

http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze/diesel%20l4
So with fuel prices in the Sacramento area the diesel is cheaper to run(fuel wise).

ROD
_________________________
'06 S2000
'00 SSEi sold at 252k miles
'08 Ford F53 V10
'13 Jeep Sahara 2 door

Top
#3198000 - 11/25/13 06:10 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: pavelow]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1725
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: pavelow
Originally Posted By: CMB
Hello guys, any suggestions on what to run in this motor? The engine is a 2.0 VM turbo diesel

I have a real hard time believing GM when they say to run standard dexos 2 5w-30 and not a diesel spec'd oil.


Calling a diesel ENGINE a motor. LMAO.


What would you call it then? A gearbox.
_________________________
10 BMW 116D SE 110k miles Full BMW Hx
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 132k 5w30 Shell AF-L

Top
#3198012 - 11/25/13 06:17 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: BlazerLT]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1725
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: BlazerLT
Originally Posted By: Brybo86
Castrol Edge 5W-40
AAP has it on sale with now 5 quarts and a Fram Ultra filter for 29.99....? not bad


It calls for 5w30. People need to stop default recommending a 40 weight oil for a diesel.


Most diesels since around 07 in the UK and all Fords since probably 15 yrs or so have specced 5w30 oil.

My Jag takes 5w30, my Volvo took 5w30 or 0w30. Pathfinder was specced 5w40 for first few years of production but since 07 was also 5w30, you can still run 5w40 and i have done and no difference was noted.

Clio runs 5w40 or 0w40(even 10w40) but can also run on 5w30 as that what they run from around 08. Will be running it on 5w30 this winter i think.
_________________________
10 BMW 116D SE 110k miles Full BMW Hx
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 132k 5w30 Shell AF-L

Top
#3198043 - 11/25/13 06:47 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: rrounds]
blackman777 Offline


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 981
Loc: Santa Ana, California
Originally Posted By: rrounds
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Since diesel MPGs have dropped from ~50 to ~42, and gasoline MPGs have risen from ~30 to ~42 (CruzeEco and others), there's very little point to buying a diesel instead of the gasser.
I don't see the mpg that your seeing. For the gas engine(2013) it has a 32.8 Avg. mpg

That's not the ECO version.

Repeat: That's not the ECO version. We keep saying the word ECO but for some reason you don't see the word ECO in the text? LOL. smile CruzeECO, CruzeECO, cruzeECO.

Regular Cruze == 35-38 MPG (varies by engine) OFFICIAL EPA RATING
Cruze ECO == 39 MPG (auto) 42 (manual) OFFICIAL EPA RATING

Also I said "and others". Why buy a diesel car of any kind, when you can get a Honda Civic HF rated 42 mpg (EPA) or Mirage rated at 44 (EPA) or Ford Fiesta rated at 45 (EPA highway). There's little reason to buy diesel which scores no higher in the official government-endorsed MPG city/highway tests.


Edited by blackman777 (11/25/13 06:55 PM)

Top
#3198113 - 11/25/13 08:01 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: blackman777]
rhhsiao Offline


Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 185
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: rrounds
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Since diesel MPGs have dropped from ~50 to ~42, and gasoline MPGs have risen from ~30 to ~42 (CruzeEco and others), there's very little point to buying a diesel instead of the gasser.
I don't see the mpg that your seeing. For the gas engine(2013) it has a 32.8 Avg. mpg

That's not the ECO version.

Repeat: That's not the ECO version. We keep saying the word ECO but for some reason you don't see the word ECO in the text? LOL. smile CruzeECO, CruzeECO, cruzeECO.

Regular Cruze == 35-38 MPG (varies by engine) OFFICIAL EPA RATING
Cruze ECO == 39 MPG (auto) 42 (manual) OFFICIAL EPA RATING

Also I said "and others". Why buy a diesel car of any kind, when you can get a Honda Civic HF rated 42 mpg (EPA) or Mirage rated at 44 (EPA) or Ford Fiesta rated at 45 (EPA highway). There's little reason to buy diesel which scores no higher in the official government-endorsed MPG city/highway tests.


The thing is though, diesels tend to get higher real world numbers. Not only that, diesels can also be much more fun to drive with their higher torque ratings at lower RPMs.

Top
#3198504 - 11/26/13 08:45 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: blackman777]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: rrounds
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Since diesel MPGs have dropped from ~50 to ~42, and gasoline MPGs have risen from ~30 to ~42 (CruzeEco and others), there's very little point to buying a diesel instead of the gasser.
I don't see the mpg that your seeing. For the gas engine(2013) it has a 32.8 Avg. mpg

That's not the ECO version.

Repeat: That's not the ECO version. We keep saying the word ECO but for some reason you don't see the word ECO in the text? LOL. smile CruzeECO, CruzeECO, cruzeECO.

Regular Cruze == 35-38 MPG (varies by engine) OFFICIAL EPA RATING
Cruze ECO == 39 MPG (auto) 42 (manual) OFFICIAL EPA RATING

Also I said "and others". Why buy a diesel car of any kind, when you can get a Honda Civic HF rated 42 mpg (EPA) or Mirage rated at 44 (EPA) or Ford Fiesta rated at 45 (EPA highway). There's little reason to buy diesel which scores no higher in the official government-endorsed MPG city/highway tests.


Is.the HP/TQ comparable to the diesel or is this an apples to oranges comparison?

I always thought people bought diesels to get great power along with good mpg?


Edited by BMWTurboDzl (11/26/13 08:46 AM)
_________________________
'15 435i - BMW branded Shell 5w30.
Prev
'10 335d
'06 330i
'03 330i

Top
#3198525 - 11/26/13 09:15 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1208
Loc: Alaska
Someone needs to start making emission delete kits for diesel cars like MB, BMW, etc. If mpg figures of US diesel pickups before/after and mpg figures of Euro spec vehicles are any indication, mpg figures would be astounding.
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/x/x5/2013/showroom/technical_data/index.html
Check the 30d model, it has hp/tq numbers most similar to the NA model.
For an X5 diesel Euro figures are 33mpg city/38 combined
I get 20-22 in loose urban driving depending on the season, 27-29 on highway.
Of course the comparable X5 gas V8 gets about 14 mpg on premium gas, not much cheaper than diesel in my locale.

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

Top
#3198852 - 11/26/13 03:39 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Chriznat20@msn.com]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 5191
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Chriznat20@msn.com
So people will:


2.) Pay anywhere from $.25-$.60 MORE per gallon for diesel over gasoline here in Michigan

What are the economic advantages of opting for a diesel engine over the gasoline engine they put in the Cruze Eco again?


Don't worry, once we go to low sulfur gasoline, diesel will be cheaper than gasoline again.
_________________________
1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck

Top
#3199624 - 11/27/13 11:43 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: BMWTurboDzl]
blackman777 Offline


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 981
Loc: Santa Ana, California
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Regular Cruze == 35-38 MPG (varies by engine) OFFICIAL EPA RATING
Cruze ECO == 39 MPG (auto) 42 (manual) OFFICIAL EPA RATING

Also you can get a Honda Civic HF rated 42 mpg (EPA) or Mirage rated at 44 (EPA) or Ford Fiesta rated at 45 (EPA highway). There's little reason to buy diesel which scores no higher in the official government-endorsed MPG city/highway tests.

Is the HP/TQ comparable to the diesel or is this an apples to oranges comparison? I always thought people bought diesels to get great power along with good mpg?

That used to be true, but not anymore. The Cruze Diesel I testdrove felt just as gutless in 6th gear as the Cruze Eco in 6th gear. Neither was very driver-friendly & would force you to shift to a lower gear (typically 4th) to pass on the highway.
Official numbers are:
CruzeECO - 138hp, 150 torque @ 1850rpm, 33mpg combined (EPA)
Cruzediesel- 148hp, 258 torque, 33mpg combined (EPA) and $5000 higher pricetag



Top
#3199788 - 11/27/13 02:45 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Garak]
IndyIan Offline


Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 6489
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
US gallons AFAIK. Nobody uses Imperial.

Well, there are some. If it's an old codger who bought gas when it was still sold in Imperial gallons (I am not one of those, by the way wink ), then they'll use Imperial gallons. My Town Car, however, used American gallons if I switched off of metric.

And almost every car ad up here as well. They always quote miles per imperial gallon to inflate the fuel economy.
_________________________
07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 115km MM F1 5W20
03 Tracker, 5spd manual, 282km, Valvoline Syn 5W30

Top
#3200178 - 11/27/13 10:18 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: blackman777]
rrounds Offline


Registered: 07/05/07
Posts: 593
Loc: SACRAMENTO, CA
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Regular Cruze == 35-38 MPG (varies by engine) OFFICIAL EPA RATING
Cruze ECO == 39 MPG (auto) 42 (manual) OFFICIAL EPA RATING

Also you can get a Honda Civic HF rated 42 mpg (EPA) or Mirage rated at 44 (EPA) or Ford Fiesta rated at 45 (EPA highway). There's little reason to buy diesel which scores no higher in the official government-endorsed MPG city/highway tests.

Is the HP/TQ comparable to the diesel or is this an apples to oranges comparison? I always thought people bought diesels to get great power along with good mpg?

That used to be true, but not anymore. The Cruze Diesel I testdrove felt just as gutless in 6th gear as the Cruze Eco in 6th gear. Neither was very driver-friendly & would force you to shift to a lower gear (typically 4th) to pass on the highway.
Official numbers are:
CruzeECO - 138hp, 150 torque @ 1850rpm, 33mpg combined (EPA)
Cruzediesel- 148hp, 258 torque, 33mpg combined (EPA) and $5000 higher pricetag



Where do you get your numbers from?
This is off of the Chevy web site

"Cruze Diesel beats the competition
Cruze Clean Turbo Diesel beats out the competition, starting with a 2.0L turbocharged clean diesel engine which boasts an SAE-certified 151 horsepower and 264 lb.ft. of “low-end” torque — more than the Volkswagen Jetta TDI. In fact, Cruze Clean Turbo Diesel is better than Jetta TDI in 8 separate categories."

151 hp and 264 lb. of torque for the diesel
http://www.chevrolet.com/cruze-compact-car.html#Diesel
and for price
ECO with an Automatic MSRP from $21,955†
Diesel with Automatic MSRP from $25,810†
http://www.chevrolet.com/cruze-compact-car/build-your-own.html?x-zipcode=94203
That is only $3855 more for better mileage and we won't know how much more or less money when you go to sell it after 250k miles.

ROD
_________________________
'06 S2000
'00 SSEi sold at 252k miles
'08 Ford F53 V10
'13 Jeep Sahara 2 door

Top
#3200195 - 11/27/13 10:38 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: rrounds]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 9241
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: rrounds
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Regular Cruze == 35-38 MPG (varies by engine) OFFICIAL EPA RATING
Cruze ECO == 39 MPG (auto) 42 (manual) OFFICIAL EPA RATING

Also you can get a Honda Civic HF rated 42 mpg (EPA) or Mirage rated at 44 (EPA) or Ford Fiesta rated at 45 (EPA highway). There's little reason to buy diesel which scores no higher in the official government-endorsed MPG city/highway tests.

Is the HP/TQ comparable to the diesel or is this an apples to oranges comparison? I always thought people bought diesels to get great power along with good mpg?

That used to be true, but not anymore. The Cruze Diesel I testdrove felt just as gutless in 6th gear as the Cruze Eco in 6th gear. Neither was very driver-friendly & would force you to shift to a lower gear (typically 4th) to pass on the highway.
Official numbers are:
CruzeECO - 138hp, 150 torque @ 1850rpm, 33mpg combined (EPA)
Cruzediesel- 148hp, 258 torque, 33mpg combined (EPA) and $5000 higher pricetag



Where do you get your numbers from?
This is off of the Chevy web site

"Cruze Diesel beats the competition
Cruze Clean Turbo Diesel beats out the competition, starting with a 2.0L turbocharged clean diesel engine which boasts an SAE-certified 151 horsepower and 264 lb.ft. of “low-end” torque — more than the Volkswagen Jetta TDI. In fact, Cruze Clean Turbo Diesel is better than Jetta TDI in 8 separate categories."

151 hp and 264 lb. of torque for the diesel
http://www.chevrolet.com/cruze-compact-car.html#Diesel
and for price
ECO with an Automatic MSRP from $21,955†
Diesel with Automatic MSRP from $25,810†
http://www.chevrolet.com/cruze-compact-car/build-your-own.html?x-zipcode=94203
That is only $3855 more for better mileage and we won't know how much more or less money when you go to sell it after 250k miles.

ROD


260tq. That car isn't that big. That's decent in my eyes anyways.
My 83 cutlass with a 305(my first car) had lower power numbers than that.
Well stock anyways. But a can of restore ended the life of that engine
And a 350 went in. Then that car got fun.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

Top
#3200317 - 11/28/13 07:42 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: rrounds]
blackman777 Offline


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 981
Loc: Santa Ana, California
Originally Posted By: rrounds

ECO with an Automatic MSRP from $21,955

People looking for max MPG (or money savings) would never buy the automatic CruzeEco.... they'd buy the manual which is +4 higher and $2000 cheaper.

Top
#3200652 - 11/28/13 02:54 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: IndyIan]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 13623
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
And almost every car ad up here as well. They always quote miles per imperial gallon to inflate the fuel economy.

I always laughed at my dad when I was younger and we'd take trips to the States. He'd convert miles per U.S. Gallon to reflect Imperial Gallons. It's not like you could buy gasoline in Imperial Gallons up here anymore, either. And the inclusion of the Imperial stuff in automotive manuals in North American is idiotic for the same reason. If people up here are flummoxed by litres and cannot fathom the numbers on jugs of oil or gas pumps, they really should retire from driving. The listing of the U.S. measures in the manuals covers all the contingencies.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#3200810 - 11/28/13 07:57 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: blackman777]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1725
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: rrounds

ECO with an Automatic MSRP from $21,955

People looking for max MPG (or money savings) would never buy the automatic CruzeEco.... they'd buy the manual which is +4 higher and $2000 cheaper.



Not something we see in Europe

Fuel consumption improvements are a given with a diesel

But the manual auto choice is more for ease of driving and convenience, especially if the car is used in an urban environment.

I think we can all see you will not be swayed on the diesel car situation

Still confused why anybody expects anybody to believe that two identically sized vehicles. One with around 100ftlbs of torque more will both have similar performance in a high gear overtake situation

They won't it really is that simple

You can't argue with almost 100% more torque. Especially as it will come in a big turbo diesel lump

I have no issue with you not wanting to own a small diesel hatch or saloon. But not sure why you think nobody else should.

I can get 60mpg out my Jag XJL on a 50mph section of dual carraigeway. At that speed the engine is turning over at around 1000rpm

On the same stretch of road the Clio can range from 70-80mpg traffic dependant.

Use the power and a turbo diesel economy will drop much more than a normally aspirated petrol vehicle in my experience.
_________________________
10 BMW 116D SE 110k miles Full BMW Hx
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 132k 5w30 Shell AF-L

Top
#3201688 - 11/29/13 10:32 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Chriznat20@msn.com]
RGR Offline


Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 207
Loc: Denver
Originally Posted By: Chriznat20@msn.com
So people will:

1.) Pay a premium for a diesel engine in the Cruze

2.) Pay anywhere from $.25-$.60 MORE per gallon for diesel over gasoline here in Michigan

3.) Have to buy Dexos2 oil at the dealer for $6-$8+ per QUART

What are the economic advantages of opting for a diesel engine over the gasoline engine they put in the Cruze Eco again?


Having just test driven a 2014 VW Passat diesel 6sp manual and a Chevy Cruze diesel, and made the same calculations for oil specs, AdBlue fluid, the fuel mileage of both, which ones have a spare, considerations of range and cost, I bought a 2014 Focus SE (non-SFE) with 5speed manual. Good gasoline mileage, as few as possible moving parts to break (no auto, ,no turbo), standard oil specs, and Black Friday sales by Ford dropping the price into the $16G's.

Now I plan on driving it 35,000 a year in long distance road trips until it breaks, or the kids crash it (they will use it in town, I commute across the country in it).

Motorcraft FL-910S and MC 5w-20 from Walmart through warranty, and then Mobil 7500 semi-syn 5w-30 from the stash until I run out of it. So far it has been delivering 34mpg for the first tank, and I've cracked 40mpg during highway runs up to 70mph.

Besides the smallish fuel tank, it'll do. Would have loved a diesel for this kind of work, but a modern, efficient gas engine and tranny with a decent reputation go a long way towards piece of mind when blasting 1800 miles over a weekend twice a month.



Edited by RGR (11/29/13 10:32 PM)

Top
#3202028 - 11/30/13 11:05 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: bigjl]
blackman777 Offline


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 981
Loc: Santa Ana, California
Focus is a good choice.... gets MPG almost as good as a Jetta TDI, but about 10 grand cheaper
Originally Posted By: bigjl
I think we can all see you will not be swayed on the diesel car situation


I own a diesel VW..... which means I am well-aware of its flaws (badly designed camshaft; wears out at ~100,000 miles). Plus its premium pricetag of about 10,000 more than a 40mpg gasoline Fiesta or Fit or Yaris. The difference is that I am an Honest diesel owner that doesn't find it necessary to act s if diesel is the best choice..... because it isn't.

As for CruzeECO versus Diesel torque, when you multiply 150 versus 258 by a very high 6th gear ratio of approximately 0.3, what you're left with is ~50 vs. ~80. That's why I said both the CruzeEco and CruzeDiesel felt "weak" and unable to pass at highway speeds. You have to shift down to 4th (which is not driver friendly)

BTW I do think a diesel would be a better choice if they sold us the same 70mpg units they sell in Europe..... that blows-away even the highest 45mpg Ford gasoline car..... but of course they don't, so I cannot recommend it to a U.S. customer


Top
#3202292 - 11/30/13 05:05 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: blackman777]
rhhsiao Offline


Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 185
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Focus is a good choice.... gets MPG almost as good as a Jetta TDI, but about 10 grand cheaper
Originally Posted By: bigjl
I think we can all see you will not be swayed on the diesel car situation


I own a diesel VW..... which means I am well-aware of its flaws (badly designed camshaft; wears out at ~100,000 miles). Plus its premium pricetag of about 10,000 more than a 40mpg gasoline Fiesta or Fit or Yaris. The difference is that I am an Honest diesel owner that doesn't find it necessary to act s if diesel is the best choice..... because it isn't.

As for CruzeECO versus Diesel torque, when you multiply 150 versus 258 by a very high 6th gear ratio of approximately 0.3, what you're left with is ~50 vs. ~80. That's why I said both the CruzeEco and CruzeDiesel felt "weak" and unable to pass at highway speeds. You have to shift down to 4th (which is not driver friendly)

BTW I do think a diesel would be a better choice if they sold us the same 70mpg units they sell in Europe..... that blows-away even the highest 45mpg Ford gasoline car..... but of course they don't, so I cannot recommend it to a U.S. customer



I think the main thing to keep in mind is that when making comparisons to other vehicles in the 40mpg line, you need to take into account vehicle size and features. The Fit, Fiesta, and Yaris are all smaller than say a diesel Golf and at the entry level offer less features than the baseline Golf TDI. It isn't an apples to apples comparison unless your only basis is fuel economy. Not to say the TDI isn't more expensive, but the comparison needs to be on equal footing. One cannot simply make blanket statements about costs otherwise.

Top
#3202710 - 12/01/13 09:30 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: rhhsiao]
blackman777 Offline


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 981
Loc: Santa Ana, California
100% true except I don't want an entertainment center in my car. I think Toyota & Honda had the right idea when they sold "stripped" versions of their Prius & Insight with almost no amenities (to lower the pricetag), and I wish VW & GM would do the same with their diesels.

So instead I'd buy cheap gasoline variants (CruzeECO not diesel). Sure I might have to roll-up the windows by hand, but so what? That's probably the only exercise my arm sees all week. wink


Top
#3202826 - 12/01/13 11:48 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: blackman777]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1208
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: blackman777


BTW I do think a diesel would be a better choice if they sold us the same 70mpg units they sell in Europe..... that blows-away even the highest 45mpg Ford gasoline car..... but of course they don't, so I cannot recommend it to a U.S. customer



Like I said, someone needs to make and sell "delete kits" "for race only" for US market diesel cars, they already have them for the diesel pickups.
Then we would see 60-70mpg!

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

Top
#3203297 - 12/01/13 08:09 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: blackman777]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1725
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Focus is a good choice.... gets MPG almost as good as a Jetta TDI, but about 10 grand cheaper
Originally Posted By: bigjl
I think we can all see you will not be swayed on the diesel car situation


I own a diesel VW..... which means I am well-aware of its flaws (badly designed camshaft; wears out at ~100,000 miles). Plus its premium pricetag of about 10,000 more than a 40mpg gasoline Fiesta or Fit or Yaris. The difference is that I am an Honest diesel owner that doesn't find it necessary to act s if diesel is the best choice..... because it isn't.

As for CruzeECO versus Diesel torque, when you multiply 150 versus 258 by a very high 6th gear ratio of approximately 0.3, what you're left with is ~50 vs. ~80. That's why I said both the CruzeEco and CruzeDiesel felt "weak" and unable to pass at highway speeds. You have to shift down to 4th (which is not driver friendly)

BTW I do think a diesel would be a better choice if they sold us the same 70mpg units they sell in Europe..... that blows-away even the highest 45mpg Ford gasoline car..... but of course they don't, so I cannot recommend it to a U.S. customer



The Pd engine hasn't had camshaft issues since the introduction of the specific Pd oils

Oil puml issues certainly are an issue.

Though to be honest i would need to point out that despite the PR and reports in the middles class motoring press in the UK VW's are not the solid everlasting vehicles that you would think.

Ford build very strong diesels as do Volvo now that they are building their own engines again.

Due to the soon to be introduced Euro6 regs in Europe it will not be long before it is no longer economically viable to use diesels in Europe. Hence the introduction of downsized petrol engines such as the 1.0 ecoboost from Ford and the 1.2 tfsi engine from VAG.
_________________________
10 BMW 116D SE 110k miles Full BMW Hx
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 132k 5w30 Shell AF-L

Top
#3467084 - 08/28/14 06:20 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: blackman777]
Winterpeg Offline


Registered: 07/19/11
Posts: 53
Loc: winnipeg,manitoba,canada
I own a Cruze diesel and your "gutless" statement is dead wrong.This engine pulls like a train. There is no comparison to the ECO, it will flat outrun it on the highway or in the city. the torque this engine puts out is like a big V8. For example 260 ft-lbs in a 3500 lb car (cruze) is the same as a 400 ft-lbs in a 5000 lb truck (ford ecoboost) which is known for its torque. So your statement is not true. I notice you are negative against the cruze in all your thread posts. Maybe try another test drive.
_________________________
2006 Cobalt 2.2L Ecotec

Top
#3467246 - 08/28/14 09:33 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1681
Loc: Kellogg, IA
Sometimes, things work out well. Like my 2006 Jeep Liberty Diesel. Only a $500 premium over gas when I bought it, and it has regularly turned in mpg numbers in the low to mid 30's compared to the 3.7 gas version that barely hits 21 on a good day. Not bad for a 4500 lb vehicle that is not all that aerodynamic and is 4x4. But this was also before DPF and SCR stuff. Just EGR, which got eliminated early on. 180 hp and 315 lb torque out of that little 2.8L in the Liberty.
_________________________
Burn it down.

Top
#3476153 - 09/06/14 10:44 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
TDI1314 Offline


Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 4
Loc: Ohio, USA
I have a Cruze Diesel and haven't regretted buying it for a second. My diesels may or may not provide a return on my investment but I prefer them over gassers. Not right or wrong, just my personal preference. I'm going to try running Total Quartz INEO MC3 5W-30 after my included maintenance is up. Its $96 for three 5 Qt containers.
_________________________
1993 Chevy K2500 HD 6.5 Turbo Diesel
2013 Volkswagen Passat Turbo Diesel
2014 Chevy Cruze Turbo Diesel

Top
#3532679 - 11/08/14 06:42 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: stchman]
Black_Thunder Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 900
Loc: Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: pavelow
Originally Posted By: CMB
Hello guys, any suggestions on what to run in this motor? The engine is a 2.0 VM turbo diesel

I have a real hard time believing GM when they say to run standard dexos 2 5w-30 and not a diesel spec'd oil.


Calling a diesel ENGINE a motor. LMAO.


I know, I wish people would call the engine and engine.

In the automotive world, motors are electric and engines are internal combustion. I will get people that will spit out the Webster's Dictionary definition for motor, this is why I preface "automotive world".

When you say "motor" and you refer to a Prius, which motor are they talking about?




and to think its called motor oil.
_________________________
I'd buy Callahan autoparts if I could.

Top
#3533339 - 11/08/14 09:58 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1681
Loc: Kellogg, IA
Well, I tolerated the EGR equipped diesel in my '06 Jeep, but I draw the line on that. No DEF, DPF, SCR equipped junk in my future. My 2013 Freightliner has a year 2000, factory rebuilt pre-egr Detroit 12.7L in it. All titled, registered, plated and legal. EPA ties the emissions to the year the engine in built, not the vehicle. Freightliner saw this as an opportunity. Sell a complete truck, minus the engine and trans, but provide all the wiring harness and other stuff to drop in the engine of your choice. They deliver the truck, you drop in the engine and trans, title it, and put it to work. The auto and pickup OEM's don't quite have the same vision. They could sell a incomplete "kit" vehicle, minus the engine, trans, and drive line, and you put in the engine of your choice. I even looked into this further, at least in my state, Iowa, you can build a total vehicle from the ground up and title it. it only has to meet DOT safety requirements for on road use.
_________________________
Burn it down.

Top
#3534959 - 11/10/14 07:24 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
pbm Offline


Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 5719
Loc: New York
I just traded in my 2011 Cruze 1.4t for a 2014 focus SE M/T...I couldn't take the smell and loss of coolant anymore.
GM either couldn't or wouldn't (because of cost) fix it.

There is a class action lawsuit against GM over the 'anti-freeze' smell/loss issue.

Investigate before you buy a Cruze. If I was in the market for a diesel I would stick with VW who has it well sorted out by now.

PS: I know that Ford Focus has some issues with their A/Ts (so does Chevy Cruze) ...that's why I bought a stick....

Top
#3535435 - 11/11/14 11:15 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Black_Thunder]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 5191
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Black_Thunder
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: pavelow
Originally Posted By: CMB
Hello guys, any suggestions on what to run in this motor? The engine is a 2.0 VM turbo diesel

I have a real hard time believing GM when they say to run standard dexos 2 5w-30 and not a diesel spec'd oil.


Calling a diesel ENGINE a motor. LMAO.


I know, I wish people would call the engine and engine.

In the automotive world, motors are electric and engines are internal combustion. I will get people that will spit out the Webster's Dictionary definition for motor, this is why I preface "automotive world".

When you say "motor" and you refer to a Prius, which motor are they talking about?




and to think its called motor oil.


And to think that big company is called General Motors...
_________________________
1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck

Top
#3555829 - 12/04/14 03:35 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Winterpeg]
gyrfalcon Offline


Registered: 12/04/14
Posts: 27
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Winterpeg
I own a Cruze diesel and your "gutless" statement is dead wrong.This engine pulls like a train. There is no comparison to the ECO, it will flat outrun it on the highway or in the city. the torque this engine puts out is like a big V8. For example 260 ft-lbs in a 3500 lb car (cruze) is the same as a 400 ft-lbs in a 5000 lb truck (ford ecoboost) which is known for its torque. So your statement is not true. I notice you are negative against the cruze in all your thread posts. Maybe try another test drive.


I completely agree. Back on topic, I'm also looking for an affordable synthetic oil to use in the diesel cruze.

Top
#3555935 - 12/04/14 05:48 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: gyrfalcon]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 13623
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
I'd recommend checking the dexos2 list and seeing what distributors are available in your area. Perhaps an XOM or SOPUS distributor might have something you need without being in a ridiculously large container. Of course, the dealer is always the other option, be it far less palatable.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#3556003 - 12/04/14 06:59 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: pbm]
Kory Offline


Registered: 11/17/14
Posts: 60
Loc: Erie, PA
Originally Posted By: pbm
I just traded in my 2011 Cruze 1.4t for a 2014 focus SE M/T...I couldn't take the smell and loss of coolant anymore.
GM either couldn't or wouldn't (because of cost) fix it.

There is a class action lawsuit against GM over the 'anti-freeze' smell/loss issue.

Investigate before you buy a Cruze. If I was in the market for a diesel I would stick with VW who has it well sorted out by now.

PS: I know that Ford Focus has some issues with their A/Ts (so does Chevy Cruze) ...that's why I bought a stick....


VW has the common rail diesel well sorted out??? Think again.
_________________________
2014 Chevy Cruze Diesel
2007 Honda Civic

2009 Harley Davidson XL1200N

Honda HRX217 Push Mower
Honda HS928WAS Snow Blower

AMSoil in all!

Top
#3556330 - 12/05/14 05:52 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: pavelow]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 23099
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: pavelow
Originally Posted By: CMB
Hello guys, any suggestions on what to run in this motor? The engine is a 2.0 VM turbo diesel

I have a real hard time believing GM when they say to run standard dexos 2 5w-30 and not a diesel spec'd oil.


Calling a diesel ENGINE a motor. LMAO.


That would have gotten a person an F in my auto shop class back in the day. The teacher wouldn't stand for calling an engine of any kind a motor.
_________________________
God Bless Our Troops


Top
#3556338 - 12/05/14 06:13 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: demarpaint]
Oil Changer Offline


Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 2297
Loc: Michigan
HA! Me too. To this day I never say motor. Technically, our teachers are correct.

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: pavelow
Originally Posted By: CMB
Hello guys, any suggestions on what to run in this motor? The engine is a 2.0 VM turbo diesel

I have a real hard time believing GM when they say to run standard dexos 2 5w-30 and not a diesel spec'd oil.


Calling a diesel ENGINE a motor. LMAO.


That would have gotten a person an F in my auto shop class back in the day. The teacher wouldn't stand for calling an engine of any kind a motor.

Top
#3557070 - 12/05/14 09:04 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1681
Loc: Kellogg, IA
VW may have the common rail thing sorted out, but VM has had common rail for a long time, and most of the commercial heavy diesels have had common rail for a decade now. There are relatively few vehicle diesels that aren't common rail anymore. GM may seem to be just a newbie at this, but they also were partnered with Penske, and together they were partnered with VM motors (yes, VM of Italy, not VW of Germany) for quite a while, who has been doing common rail as long as anyone else. I was especially fond of the 2.8L VM common rail diesel in my 2006 Jeep Liberty. That was, in many ways the same engine that GM is going to plant in their midsize Colorado and Canyon pickups.

I am not so sure, that one of the already available, off the shelf, CJ-4 synthetics or blends would not work just fine in the Cruz. After all, there are 13L, 14L, and 15L heavy diesels, with all the latest emission junk, VG turbos, working 80,000 lb trucks, pulling from Canada to the Rio Grande, mountains and plains, winter and summer using 5w30 and 10w30 oils. I know of several trucking fleets that are on these oils instead of the traditional 15w40 stuff, and doing some serious drain intervals to boot. I seriously doubt the Cruz diesel would put any more strain on one of these CJ-4 synthetic diesel oils. I just saw a used oil sample, on a trucking forum, from a guy with a Cummins ISX 15L that was running a 5w30 HDEO synthetic and had 25,000 miles on the oil at that sampling, and it was as good or better than any UOA I have seen on any other heavy diesel using 15w40.
_________________________
Burn it down.

Top
#3557643 - 12/06/14 02:13 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: TiredTrucker]
gyrfalcon Offline


Registered: 12/04/14
Posts: 27
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I seriously doubt the Cruz diesel would put any more strain on one of these CJ-4 synthetic diesel oils. I just saw a used oil sample, on a trucking forum, from a guy with a Cummins ISX 15L that was running a 5w30 HDEO synthetic and had 25,000 miles on the oil at that sampling, and it was as good or better than any UOA I have seen on any other heavy diesel using 15w40.



Mobil Delvac 1™ LE 5W-30 has a Sulfated Ash, wt%1. Standard Valvoline Synpower is 0.93% and the MST variety is 0.78% (Dexos2 approved for Cruze).

I think the big thing is the ash content and the DPF.


Edited by gyrfalcon (12/06/14 02:14 PM)

Top
#3558372 - 12/07/14 10:21 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1681
Loc: Kellogg, IA
hence the CJ-4 spec I mentioned. That spec was specifically put out for diesels with the SCR and DPF stuff. The fact that this is relatively new to the consumer side of things only makes this all an issue. The Commercial diesel side has been dealing with all of the SCR and DPF issues for a long time and billions of miles. The low SAPS is part of the CJ-4 spec. That is why I mentioned that the OP should not have any issue with a HDEO, in the viscosity grade they need, that is a CJ-4 rated oil. Personally, I would side with a synthetic, or at least a blend if I was putting it in a smaller diesel for the extra advantage it offers and the fact that we are talking about a few quarts, not a few gallons like a heavy diesel. Cost would be hardly an issue.
_________________________
Burn it down.

Top
#3578744 - 12/26/14 09:58 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Chriznat20@msn.com]
dothedrew1202 Offline


Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 101
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Chriznat20@msn.com
So people will:

1.) Pay a premium for a diesel engine in the Cruze

2.) Pay anywhere from $.25-$.60 MORE per gallon for diesel over gasoline here in Michigan

3.) Have to buy Dexos2 oil at the dealer for $6-$8+ per QUART

What are the economic advantages of opting for a diesel engine over the gasoline engine they put in the Cruze Eco again?


Here in So-Cal diesel is roughly the same price as Premium gasoline, so I opted for a VW TDI rather than a VW premium gasser. The torque is awesome but the selling point was that diesel engines with proper maintenance last forever. The downside is the ADblue / Blue Def.
_________________________
2015 VW Golf TDI.....(last oc @ 19,613)

Top
#3578781 - 12/26/14 10:40 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: gyrfalcon]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 13623
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: gyrfalcon
Mobil Delvac 1™ LE 5W-30 has a Sulfated Ash, wt%1. Standard Valvoline Synpower is 0.93% and the MST variety is 0.78% (Dexos2 approved for Cruze).

I think the big thing is the ash content and the DPF.

Delvac 1 LE also has a very low phosphorous content.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#3578896 - 12/27/14 04:52 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1681
Loc: Kellogg, IA
Sure, one pays a premium for a diesel, but usually you get what you pay for. Can't speak to the GM varieties, but the VM 2.8L in my Jeep was designed with a B50 life of over 300,000 miles, meaning less than 50% of these engines, on average, would need overhauled in 300,000 miles. A unrealized dream for many gas engines.

Pay more for fuel? Sure. But when you factor that the average mpg of the typical diesel vs gasser, is a net gain of anywhere from 30-50%, it is a non issue. My Jeep, the gasser version, folks dreamed of 21 mpg highway. My diesel got 32 mpg highway on a normal day. On a good day, 35 mpg. Over 50% better mpg. The difference between gas and diesel fuel prices would have to be much larger than they are just to make it even. Diesel wins.

And would only have to buy dexos2 oil if one has an swollen paranoia gland. I probably would have good odds if I bet that a GM dealer is using a CJ-4 rated oil in all the diesels that come thru. The Duramax, according to the dexos site itself, is on CJ-4 and not dexos2. Almost a sure thing the lube jocky at the dealer will put the same oil in the Cruze. And no one will ever know the difference. The VM diesel in my Jeep specified some obscure Euro spec 0w40. I put in a CJ-4 5w40 and the engine has done just fine. My son owns it now and it is running as great as it did when new in 2006. The Jeep has has some problems, but not the engine.
_________________________
Burn it down.

Top
#3579771 - 12/27/14 10:02 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: TiredTrucker]
Nate1979 Offline


Registered: 04/08/13
Posts: 1563
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Sure, one pays a premium for a diesel, but usually you get what you pay for. Can't speak to the GM varieties, but the VM 2.8L in my Jeep was designed with a B50 life of over 300,000 miles, meaning less than 50% of these engines, on average, would need overhauled in 300,000 miles. A unrealized dream for many gas engines.

Pay more for fuel? Sure. But when you factor that the average mpg of the typical diesel vs gasser, is a net gain of anywhere from 30-50%, it is a non issue. My Jeep, the gasser version, folks dreamed of 21 mpg highway. My diesel got 32 mpg highway on a normal day. On a good day, 35 mpg. Over 50% better mpg. The difference between gas and diesel fuel prices would have to be much larger than they are just to make it even. Diesel wins.

And would only have to buy dexos2 oil if one has an swollen paranoia gland. I probably would have good odds if I bet that a GM dealer is using a CJ-4 rated oil in all the diesels that come thru. The Duramax, according to the dexos site itself, is on CJ-4 and not dexos2. Almost a sure thing the lube jocky at the dealer will put the same oil in the Cruze. And no one will ever know the difference. The VM diesel in my Jeep specified some obscure Euro spec 0w40. I put in a CJ-4 5w40 and the engine has done just fine. My son owns it now and it is running as great as it did when new in 2006. The Jeep has has some problems, but not the engine.


How do you find out the design life of an engine?
_________________________
2012 Chevy Silverado 5.3L 4x4 PP 5w-30 w/ Fram Ultra
2010 Subaru Forester 2.5X M1 5w-30 w/ Fram Ultra

Top
#3579795 - 12/27/14 10:19 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1681
Loc: Kellogg, IA
I went to VM's website (though in Italy, the site had de facto English format) back in 2006 when I bought the Jeep and dug around and found out all kinds of goodies on my engine. Downloads galore. Great graphs on hp, torque, gallon per hour fuel consumption rates up and down the RPM band, etc. All kinds of stuff that usually is reserved for commercial users here in the U.S. And in all of that, I found the design B50 life of the engine was 300,000 miles / 500,000 Km. I can get this kind of stuff for my commercial engines, I just wish the auto and pickup OEM's readily offered similar information. It would sure make is a lot easier for folks to determine the best RPM bands to run their engines. Everyone from the gooberment to the OEM's to the consumer are chasing fuel economy, if more detailed information was provided the consumer, it would help to advance the fuel economy thing as folks would know the most efficient band to run their engine. At least for those that take an interest in such things.
_________________________
Burn it down.

Top
#3589066 - 01/05/15 12:25 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: TiredTrucker]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 5191
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I went to VM's website (though in Italy, the site had de facto English format) back in 2006 when I bought the Jeep and dug around and found out all kinds of goodies on my engine. Downloads galore. Great graphs on hp, torque, gallon per hour fuel consumption rates up and down the RPM band, etc. All kinds of stuff that usually is reserved for commercial users here in the U.S. And in all of that, I found the design B50 life of the engine was 300,000 miles / 500,000 Km. I can get this kind of stuff for my commercial engines, I just wish the auto and pickup OEM's readily offered similar information. It would sure make is a lot easier for folks to determine the best RPM bands to run their engines. Everyone from the gooberment to the OEM's to the consumer are chasing fuel economy, if more detailed information was provided the consumer, it would help to advance the fuel economy thing as folks would know the most efficient band to run their engine. At least for those that take an interest in such things.


I used to go on the VM Motori web site, too. Lots of good stuff there.

I've been watching the price of diesel here in Michigan, and it's really got me down. I just bought premium gasoline yesterday at $2.15/gal, and diesel at the same station was $3.19. That's about 50% more for diesel fuel, and pretty much wipes out any economic advantage that a diesel would have over gasoline, given the initial cost penalty of a diesel engine. Hopefully this is just a temporary situation, but I have never seen diesel at such a high cost relative to gasoline.


Edited by A_Harman (01/05/15 12:26 PM)
_________________________
1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck

Top
#3589345 - 01/05/15 05:25 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
oilpsi2high Offline


Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 407
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: CMB
Hello guys, any suggestions on what to run in this motor? The engine is a 2.0 VM turbo diesel

I have a real hard time believing GM when they say to run standard dexos 2 5w-30 and not a diesel spec'd oil.


Does this car not come with years of complimentary maintenance? Let them do the oil changes, just make sure the car doesn't leave your sight and you can physically see them change the filter and pour the correct oil in.

Top
#3589943 - 01/06/15 08:47 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 35951
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: CMB
Hello guys, any suggestions on what to run in this motor? The engine is a 2.0 VM turbo diesel

I have a real hard time believing GM when they say to run standard dexos 2 5w-30 and not a diesel spec'd oil.


Why? I'm pretty sure dexos 2 is a diesel-spec oil.

Would you doubt MB saying to use 229.x in their diesels, or bmw saying to use LL-04 in their diesels? Guess what, those both are diesel and gas specs. Do you deny ACEA B specs? API c specs?

What exactly are you looking for to make you comfortable? 15w-40 delvac?

Even in the mb diesel world I come from (IDI turbo diesels with egr) lots of folks have run lots of hundreds of thousands of miles on api CF and even 20w-50 PCMO. Surely dexos 2 is far more stringent and better than that, for what is otherwise a cleaner running, less soot loading engine.

I'm missing the basis of the fear. Especially if the lube you're after also holds ACEA b specs and other euro manufacturers' diesel/ga$ specs.

Top
#3590252 - 01/06/15 02:14 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 5191
Loc: Michigan
Yes, dexos 2 is GM's oil spec for light-duty diesels.
The Duramax has a different spec.
_________________________
1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck

Top
#3768121 - 06/22/15 03:53 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
Rat407 Offline


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 885
Loc: North Carolina
Getting the oil is easy, it is the $120 fuel filter that will nail ya!

Top
#3769101 - 06/23/15 02:16 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
Jetronic Offline


Registered: 02/27/09
Posts: 510
Loc: down in the park
is it still reallya VM diesel? Now they have a Fiat diesel engine, before they used a Daewoo diesel engine, and only the first gen was a VM to my knowledge (same engine as used by Hyundai/Kia).

if the oil plug is on the wheel side and looks like a banjo bolt, it's the Fiat engine.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3744430/1


If it's the Fiat engine, MB229.51 oil is perfect


Edited by Jetronic (06/23/15 02:17 PM)
_________________________
AR Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2 -- TQI MC3 5w40

Top
#3769156 - 06/23/15 03:02 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Jetronic]
chrisri Offline


Registered: 06/01/14
Posts: 856
Loc: Fiume,Croatia,EU
I believe US gets FIAT Mjet in Cruze, similar engine to those in Opels.
_________________________
99 FIAT Punto Sporting 16v (Mobil Super 3000x1 5w40)
06 FIAT Stilo MW 1.9 Multijet (Selenia WR 5w40)
93 Ford Escort 1.3 HCS (HDO 5w30)

Top
#3773023 - 06/27/15 11:57 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1681
Loc: Kellogg, IA
With diesel at the very same price in my area right now, the diesel folks ought to be grinning like a mule eating burrs. I sure would be. I know I sure am liking it for my business diesel needs. Commercial buying, I have getting diesel almost 40 cents a gallon LESS than gas at the pump right now. Take advantage of it while it lasts. You know this kind of thing will not last forever.
_________________________
Burn it down.

Top
#3773489 - 06/27/15 08:52 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: TiredTrucker]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 29533
Loc: Oz
TT here in my town diesel is 40c/gal cheaper (Oz cents, 30c US).

My Nissan with diesel gets 10km/l. The gasser version got 7km/l...been laughing the entire time I've owned it.

Top
#3773552 - 06/27/15 10:16 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1681
Loc: Kellogg, IA
Well, I sure haven't been laughing, but I have sure felt a lot of comfort with lower diesel pricing. My business spreadsheets and my bank account like the low prices also. I realize it may be short lived, so I am just enjoying it and keeping my fingers crossed that it stays this way for a while.

Actually this is just more icing on the cake. Transportation capacity is down, which means there is more freight chasing fewer trucks, so rates are better. That is compounded by a perceived driver shortage that is also driving rates. Not convinced yet that any driver shortage is as acute as many in the industry are claiming, but it is getting enough print time in the rags to concern a lot of folks. Combine that with lower fuel costs, and this is a situation I can totally deal with. And with lower fuel and oil, tire prices have dropped a little. That is a good thing since my semi is going to get all new rubber this fall.
_________________________
Burn it down.

Top
#3774400 - 06/28/15 08:44 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: pavelow]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 2548
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: pavelow
Originally Posted By: CMB
Hello guys, any suggestions on what to run in this motor? The engine is a 2.0 VM turbo diesel

I have a real hard time believing GM when they say to run standard dexos 2 5w-30 and not a diesel spec'd oil.


Calling a diesel ENGINE a motor. LMAO.
Really doesn't matter.

Top
#3775624 - 06/30/15 01:03 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
Michael_P Offline


Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 1285
Loc: Ohio
Why isn't General Motors called; General Engines? Why does an engine lathe have an electric motor?

Top
#3775768 - 06/30/15 08:20 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Michael_P]
BitterShard Offline


Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 34
Loc: Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: Michael_P
Why isn't General Motors called; General Engines? Why does an engine lathe have an electric motor?


And why are we discussing this on the Passenger Car Motor Oil forum?

Shouldn't this forum be limited to one long thread complaining about the lack of oils recommended for the Tesla Motor Cars? (Filled mainly with recommendations to 'just run what the manual says', 'just use M1 0w-40' and 'just use T6') smile


Edited by BitterShard (06/30/15 08:22 AM)
_________________________
'15 Hyundai Veloster Turbo 1.6L TGDI - Factory Fill, Edge 5w30 Next
'11 Chrysler Town & Country 3.6L - Magnatec 5w30
'01 GMC Sierra 4.3L - QSGB 5w30

Top
#3775794 - 06/30/15 08:55 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: BitterShard]
chrisri Offline


Registered: 06/01/14
Posts: 856
Loc: Fiume,Croatia,EU
Just to add that all engines are motors, but some motors like electric motor is not an engine.
_________________________
99 FIAT Punto Sporting 16v (Mobil Super 3000x1 5w40)
06 FIAT Stilo MW 1.9 Multijet (Selenia WR 5w40)
93 Ford Escort 1.3 HCS (HDO 5w30)

Top
#3779424 - 07/03/15 09:37 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
Koz1 Offline


Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 465
Loc: Ont Canada
TOTAL QUARTZ INEO EFFICIENCY 0W-30

I dont know a single person my whole life that talks in Imperial gallons. Its a White Whale spoken by people that have no idea whats going on up here.

I might be getting a Cruze Diesel.
_________________________
Currently using, M1 AFE 0W-20, FF Currently and QSUD 0W-20

Top
#3779530 - 07/03/15 11:41 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Koz1]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 13623
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
You just haven't spoken to enough old people up here, Koz1. When Canada used gallons for volumetric sales, it used Imperial gallons.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#3779702 - 07/04/15 08:12 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Garak]
Koz1 Offline


Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 465
Loc: Ont Canada
Originally Posted By: Garak
You just haven't spoken to enough old people up here, Koz1. When Canada used gallons for volumetric sales, it used Imperial gallons.


Yes that is obvious as all vehicle mileage on the stickers is Imperial.
But there isn't anyone including older gentlemen that love cars that talk Imperial they talk US Gallons, even classic car expos I just haven't encountered it.
Maybe its different in Sask.
_________________________
Currently using, M1 AFE 0W-20, FF Currently and QSUD 0W-20

Top
#3780212 - 07/04/15 09:12 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Koz1]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 13623
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
I suppose it depends on how old they are. If they bought gasoline or motor oil in the early 1970s, they would have been doing so with Imperial measures. I bet I can still find containers in my garage that list Imperial, U.S., and metric measures.

Miles are the same in the Imperial system and the U.S. system.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#3782133 - 07/06/15 09:31 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
Koz1 Offline


Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 465
Loc: Ont Canada
I did get the Cruze.
Total QUARTZ INEO MC3 5W-30
TOTAL QUARTZ INEO EFFICIENCY 0W-30

Which oil would you use and why?
Thank You.
_________________________
Currently using, M1 AFE 0W-20, FF Currently and QSUD 0W-20

Top
#3782385 - 07/07/15 07:52 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Koz1]
Danno Offline


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 1040
Loc: Northern Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Koz1
I did get the Cruze.
Total QUARTZ INEO MC3 5W-30
TOTAL QUARTZ INEO EFFICIENCY 0W-30

Which oil would you use and why?
Thank You.


5W-30
Why? To maintain GM powertrain warranty as it is specced to meet Dexos 2.

Top
#3782500 - 07/07/15 10:30 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Danno]
Koz1 Offline


Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 465
Loc: Ont Canada
Originally Posted By: Danno
Originally Posted By: Koz1
I did get the Cruze.
Total QUARTZ INEO MC3 5W-30
TOTAL QUARTZ INEO EFFICIENCY 0W-30

Which oil would you use and why?
Thank You.


5W-30
Why? To maintain GM powertrain warranty as it is specced to meet Dexos 2.


Or ACEA C3, Its in the manual, the first one is dexos2, They are both ACEA C3.

There are oils that are dexos2 0w30, 5w30, 0w40, 5w40.
_________________________
Currently using, M1 AFE 0W-20, FF Currently and QSUD 0W-20

Top
#3782530 - 07/07/15 11:04 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Koz1]
ExMachina Offline


Registered: 05/31/15
Posts: 786
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Koz1
I did get the Cruze.
Total QUARTZ INEO MC3 5W-30
TOTAL QUARTZ INEO EFFICIENCY 0W-30

Which oil would you use and why?
Thank You.


The Quartz 0w-30 is not on the dexos2 official list, so I guess use the 5w-30 is it. ( http://www.centerforqa.com/gm/dexos2-brands )

Note: If you want a 0w-30 in a dexos2 flavor, then go with Castrol, the only company that offers that in a dexos2.

BTW, congrats on the Cruze ownership! Good choice I think. I actually wanted that same engine to be offered in the new Chevy Colorado pu truck, at least in a 2wd work truck form, for better fuel economy in the city (doubt much advantage on the highway compared to the new 2.8L inline 4 diesel they are using in the Colorado, but city MPG would be better with the smaller Cruze diesel in there.


Edited by ExMachina (07/07/15 11:07 AM)

Top
#3784172 - 07/08/15 05:44 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Koz1]
edyvw Online   content


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1709
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Koz1
I did get the Cruze.
Total QUARTZ INEO MC3 5W-30
TOTAL QUARTZ INEO EFFICIENCY 0W-30

Which oil would you use and why?
Thank You.

Get Mobil1 5W30 ESP.
You live in Canada, so you know what is winter.
Pour point of MC3 is -36c. Pour point of M1 is -45.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (Pentosin 5W40+OEM-Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 0W40+OEM-Mann)

Top
#3785351 - 07/09/15 03:54 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: edyvw]
Koz1 Offline


Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 465
Loc: Ont Canada
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Koz1
I did get the Cruze.
Total QUARTZ INEO MC3 5W-30
TOTAL QUARTZ INEO EFFICIENCY 0W-30

Which oil would you use and why?
Thank You.

Get Mobil1 5W30 ESP.
You live in Canada, so you know what is winter.
Pour point of MC3 is -36c. Pour point of M1 is -45.


ESP cost about 70% more than what I can get the Total MC3 for.
If it was the same cost or slightly more I would have bought it.
_________________________
Currently using, M1 AFE 0W-20, FF Currently and QSUD 0W-20

Top
#3785518 - 07/09/15 07:16 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Koz1]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 13623
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
It can't hurt to check at Imperial Oil for the price of the Mobil product. Partsource and Canadian Tire are clueless when it comes to pricing oil.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#3785611 - 07/09/15 08:57 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Koz1]
edyvw Online   content


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1709
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Koz1
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Koz1
I did get the Cruze.
Total QUARTZ INEO MC3 5W-30
TOTAL QUARTZ INEO EFFICIENCY 0W-30

Which oil would you use and why?
Thank You.

Get Mobil1 5W30 ESP.
You live in Canada, so you know what is winter.
Pour point of MC3 is -36c. Pour point of M1 is -45.


ESP cost about 70% more than what I can get the Total MC3 for.
If it was the same cost or slightly more I would have bought it.

Yeah, i know it is more expensive. Your call..
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (Pentosin 5W40+OEM-Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 0W40+OEM-Mann)

Top
#3785968 - 07/10/15 09:18 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Koz1]
Fraser434 Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 126
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: Koz1

ESP cost about 70% more than what I can get the Total MC3 for.
If it was the same cost or slightly more I would have bought it.


Mobil1 ESP has Moly and Boron additives and the highest allowable amount of ZDDP to meet the spec, most likely has PAO in the base stock. The UOA's from ESP are the best I've seen amongst Low SAPS oils; If you were looking to keep the vehicle I would use this oil.

If its a lease or a trade it in after the warranty is up... Pour in whatever meets spec.

The VOA for Ineo 5W30 looked very basic.


Edited by Fraser434 (07/10/15 09:25 AM)

Top
#3785990 - 07/10/15 09:47 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Fraser434]
edyvw Online   content


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1709
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Fraser434
Originally Posted By: Koz1

ESP cost about 70% more than what I can get the Total MC3 for.
If it was the same cost or slightly more I would have bought it.


Mobil1 ESP has Moly and Boron additives and the highest allowable amount of ZDDP to meet the spec, most likely has PAO in the base stock. The UOA's from ESP are the best I've seen amongst Low SAPS oils; If you were looking to keep the vehicle I would use this oil.

If its a lease or a trade it in after the warranty is up... Pour in whatever meets spec.

The VOA for Ineo 5W30 looked very basic.

ESP has PAO but it is still classified in Germany as Synhetic technology. Regardless, it is by far IMO best oil on market. 3.58cp, 12.1 cst, 254c flash point, -45 pour point. They really did good job.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (Pentosin 5W40+OEM-Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 0W40+OEM-Mann)

Top
#3786346 - 07/10/15 05:42 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
Koz1 Offline


Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 465
Loc: Ont Canada
The local Distributor is telling me the ESP cost me the same as at Part Source. Highway Robbery if you ask me.
If anyone can find it at a decent price in the GTA I will buy it down there as I have to go there now and again.
I returned the Total just because I want to Really try the ESP 5w-30.
As well I have to fix my prior post as its not 0w-30 that's specced during winter its 0w40 Dexos2 or Acea C3, so they want a thicker oil in colder temperatures. Engineers can you figure these peoples out?
Lower pour point yes but much higher HTHS in colder weather.
_________________________
Currently using, M1 AFE 0W-20, FF Currently and QSUD 0W-20

Top
#3786348 - 07/10/15 05:49 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
Koz1 Offline


Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 465
Loc: Ont Canada
Why are they not recommending 0w40 all year?
Only below -29C.
_________________________
Currently using, M1 AFE 0W-20, FF Currently and QSUD 0W-20

Top
#3786368 - 07/10/15 06:13 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
Koz1 Offline


Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 465
Loc: Ont Canada
What about Motul 8100 X-Clean C3 5w-30.
Cant find much on it really.
I can get it as cheap as the Total.
_________________________
Currently using, M1 AFE 0W-20, FF Currently and QSUD 0W-20

Top
#3786378 - 07/10/15 06:30 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Koz1]
ExMachina Offline


Registered: 05/31/15
Posts: 786
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Koz1
What about Motul 8100 X-Clean C3 5w-30.
Cant find much on it really.
I can get it as cheap as the Total.


If you want to stick to actual dexos2 oils, Motul 8100 5w-30 is not.
They do have 8100 5w-40 as officially dexos2.

Do what truckers have been doing for years when December 1 rolls around and outdoor start temperatures get brutally cold: For you, put in a cup of diesel fuel or 8% sump capacity, in your oil sump on Dec 1, and by March 1 it will be burned off. Start with a 0w-40 or 5w-40 dexos2 oil for high temperature viscosity protection, and get your cold starts working better during the brief period. I'm trying to see if Molakule or someone will tell what the downside of doing this often-used trick is, in my case using MMO in a gas engine oil sump in the winter. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3786354/Re:_How_to_Reduce_Viscosity_of#Post3786354


Edited by ExMachina (07/10/15 06:40 PM)

Top
#3786396 - 07/10/15 06:49 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
Koz1 Offline


Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 465
Loc: Ont Canada
There is a MOTUL Specific Motul dexos2 5W-30 Global, I dont see it on the Canada site though.
All I need is ACEA C3, Dexos2 would be nice but doesn't need to be.
_________________________
Currently using, M1 AFE 0W-20, FF Currently and QSUD 0W-20

Top
#3786407 - 07/10/15 07:03 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Koz1]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 13623
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Koz1
The local Distributor is telling me the ESP cost me the same as at Part Source. Highway Robbery if you ask me.

Yep, that's no fair at all. Does it ever get rolled back at Canadian Tire or Partsource with their occasional M1 specials? As far as I know, the ESP is only available in 1 L bottles, so that makes matters that much worse.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#3786538 - 07/10/15 10:42 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Koz1]
edyvw Online   content


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1709
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Koz1
The local Distributor is telling me the ESP cost me the same as at Part Source. Highway Robbery if you ask me.
If anyone can find it at a decent price in the GTA I will buy it down there as I have to go there now and again.
I returned the Total just because I want to Really try the ESP 5w-30.
As well I have to fix my prior post as its not 0w-30 that's specced during winter its 0w40 Dexos2 or Acea C3, so they want a thicker oil in colder temperatures. Engineers can you figure these peoples out?
Lower pour point yes but much higher HTHS in colder weather.

Lower pour point? YES. Higher HTHS? YES! You have same engine as Opel's in Europe, and they all go for HTHS 3.5 or higher. In my vocabulary, anything that has turbo should get HTHS 3.5 or higher.
Now 0W40 is thicker at operating temperature, but the first number in winter is the most important. 0W40 will have better flow then 5W30 during start. 5W30 might reach operating temperature faster. If you ask me in winter, I would go definitely with 0W40 Dexos2 or Acea C3.
Did you try Amazon?
How much is Castrol LL-03? That oils is also very good.


Edited by edyvw (07/10/15 10:44 PM)
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (Pentosin 5W40+OEM-Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 0W40+OEM-Mann)

Top
#3786872 - 07/11/15 12:36 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Chriznat20@msn.com]
ExMachina Offline


Registered: 05/31/15
Posts: 786
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Chriznat20@msn.com
So people will:

1.) Pay a premium for a diesel engine in the Cruze

2.) Pay anywhere from $.25-$.60 MORE per gallon for diesel over gasoline here in Michigan

3.) Have to buy Dexos2 oil at the dealer for $6-$8+ per QUART

What are the economic advantages of opting for a diesel engine over the gasoline engine they put in the Cruze Eco again?


Depends on how much you drive and how much you like the diesel-low-rpm-torque-punch fun and cruising range of a Cruze Deezal. OTR truckers love diesels for good reason. If I only did like less than 30 mile per day, then a gasoline car might be the right choice.

Top
#3787090 - 07/11/15 05:52 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
Koz1 Offline


Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 465
Loc: Ont Canada
Motul 8100 X-Clean C3 5w-30 It Is.
_________________________
Currently using, M1 AFE 0W-20, FF Currently and QSUD 0W-20

Top
#3787180 - 07/11/15 07:45 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Koz1]
ExMachina Offline


Registered: 05/31/15
Posts: 786
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Koz1
Motul 8100 X-Clean C3 5w-30 It Is.


Dexos2 is a tougher spec than just ACEA C3.
Motul 8100 X-clean 5w-30 is not a dexos2 oil.
Just saying, don't you want the assurance that the oil is full dexos2? There must be a reason why the X-clean 5w-30 did not qualify, and the X-clean 5w-40 did.
Lubrizol tells us dexos2 is tougher:

Top
#3787627 - 07/12/15 10:02 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: ExMachina]
Koz1 Offline


Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 465
Loc: Ont Canada
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: Koz1
Motul 8100 X-Clean C3 5w-30 It Is.


Dexos2 is a tougher spec than just ACEA C3.
Motul 8100 X-clean 5w-30 is not a dexos2 oil.
Just saying, don't you want the assurance that the oil is full dexos2? There must be a reason why the X-clean 5w-30 did not qualify, and the X-clean 5w-40 did.
Lubrizol tells us dexos2 is tougher:


Thank You for that comment.
Now overlay MB-Approval 229.51.
BMW LL-04 and VW 502 / 505 with ACEA C3.
Its a great oil and I am good with it Thanks for the info.
_________________________
Currently using, M1 AFE 0W-20, FF Currently and QSUD 0W-20

Top
#3788498 - 07/13/15 06:33 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: ExMachina]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1681
Loc: Kellogg, IA
Originally Posted By: ExMachina

Do what truckers have been doing for years when December 1 rolls around and outdoor start temperatures get brutally cold: For you, put in a cup of diesel fuel or 8% sump capacity, in your oil sump on Dec 1, and by March 1 it will be burned off.


Darn, I miss all the cool info! Let's see, well over 3 decades as commercial heavy truck driver and owner. 10 years of it in the Alaska interior. 5 million logged miles, and I have never heard of putting diesel fuel in engine oil sump. Probably because it is just about the stupidest idea I have ever heard. Fuel dilution is not desirable and condemnation limits are considerably less than the 8% you mention. That idea is good if one is trying to destroy their motor. Some folks just have $30K laying around and just can't wait to drop in a crate motor, I guess. God knows how all these "trucker solutions" get started. I never cease to be amazed at what some folks will suggest putting in equipment oil and fuel.

That had to be a facetious comment. Hard to imagine anyone actually doing that. But, I have seen some real lame brain things over the years. Some people just have way to much time on their hands and a very boring life to run around and dream this kind of stuff up. Now some joker is actually going to try this in their motor next winter.
_________________________
Burn it down.

Top
#3800783 - 07/25/15 05:32 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 89
Loc: Down Under
For a diesel Cruze, I would run any name brand, full synthetic, 5W-30 oil with the ACEA C3 spec., and sleep easy at night.

If I wanted more I would look for the DEXOS 2 or MB229.51 spec. I would probably go the MB as it is easier to find and a great standard.

The only DEXOS 2 oil I have seen around here is the valvoline SynPower MST 5W-40. It's rated C3, BMW LL04, MB 2295.51 and DEXOS 2. It's a little heavy, but that wouldn't bother me too much once the car was out of warranty.

Still I would probably go for the SynPower XL-III 5W-30 which is rated ACEA C3, BMW LL-04 and MB229.51.

We also have a Castrol Edge Diesel 5W-30 which is ACEA C3 and BMW LL-04.

I'm sure there are more options, but that is what is stocked at my local store. If I had to buy one today, I would go the SynPower XL-III 5W-30.

Top
#3800789 - 07/25/15 05:49 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Garak]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 89
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Garak
I suppose it depends on how old they are. If they bought gasoline or motor oil in the early 1970s, they would have been doing so with Imperial measures. I bet I can still find containers in my garage that list Imperial, U.S., and metric measures.

Miles are the same in the Imperial system and the U.S. system.


Same here in Oz, we had all three measurements, but mostly metric now. People still often talk using the older terms.

Hey, G37, nice car !!!
How many Leagues to the Hogshead do you get out of that ?



Edited by SR5 (07/25/15 05:50 AM)
Edit Reason: Spelling

Top
#3801303 - 07/25/15 07:08 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: SR5]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 13623
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
I'm not sure how many of those I get; I'd have to get Abraham Simpson to do the conversion. On a highway trip, I can get under 8 L/100 km, but I usually get closer to 11.4 L/100 km, averaged throughout the year.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#3801607 - 07/26/15 03:16 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Garak]
chrisri Offline


Registered: 06/01/14
Posts: 856
Loc: Fiume,Croatia,EU
Originally Posted By: Garak
I'm not sure how many of those I get; I'd have to get Abraham Simpson to do the conversion. On a highway trip, I can get under 8 L/100 km, but I usually get closer to 11.4 L/100 km, averaged throughout the year.

That is actually very good consumption you're getting here! I know a guy that had 350Z , he was getting about 15-17l/100km , but car was used around town mostly.
_________________________
99 FIAT Punto Sporting 16v (Mobil Super 3000x1 5w40)
06 FIAT Stilo MW 1.9 Multijet (Selenia WR 5w40)
93 Ford Escort 1.3 HCS (HDO 5w30)

Top
#3802248 - 07/26/15 06:29 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: chrisri]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 13623
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Around town is the worst, of course. When I had my Town Car, that had the biggest difference. Getting under 8 L/100 km was very easy on the highway. In the city, look out.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#3802422 - 07/26/15 09:33 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
Greasymechtech Offline


Registered: 07/11/14
Posts: 1000
Loc: Paradise of Florida
http://www.centerforqa.com/gm/dexos2-brands

Besides the above bribes paid in full fluids, below are some rebels:

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/m...etic-motor-oil/
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=142&pcid=21
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=144&pcid=21

Since its GM, I'd probably be a little early on the oil changes. Don't want to find out that the algorithm for the OLM is incorrect, or other issue that will be R&D'd by the consumer.

Dog gonnit, no manual trans for the diesel?
_________________________
At what point should a lurker start posting :-)

Top
#3802938 - 07/27/15 11:53 AM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
Jetronic Offline


Registered: 02/27/09
Posts: 510
Loc: down in the park
the same diesel engine in the Giulietta is scheduled for 22k or 2 year changes...
_________________________
AR Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2 -- TQI MC3 5w40

Top
#3802991 - 07/27/15 12:41 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: Jetronic]
chrisri Offline


Registered: 06/01/14
Posts: 856
Loc: Fiume,Croatia,EU
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
the same diesel engine in the Giulietta is scheduled for 22k or 2 year changes...

It's not the same any more. After the unholy marriage ended evolution of Jtd engine went in somewhat different ways. Engines in 159, Croma and G. Punto share most similarities with their GM Opel siblings, but still different engine management.
_________________________
99 FIAT Punto Sporting 16v (Mobil Super 3000x1 5w40)
06 FIAT Stilo MW 1.9 Multijet (Selenia WR 5w40)
93 Ford Escort 1.3 HCS (HDO 5w30)

Top
#3803035 - 07/27/15 01:42 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
Jetronic Offline


Registered: 02/27/09
Posts: 510
Loc: down in the park
I doubt there's any significant difference. even a lot of the bolt-on stuff is interchangeable.

turbo's are different though... not enough to make significant maintenance differences though.
_________________________
AR Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2 -- TQI MC3 5w40

Top
#3803036 - 07/27/15 01:43 PM Re: 2014 diesel chevy cruze - what oil [Re: CMB]
Jetronic Offline


Registered: 02/27/09
Posts: 510
Loc: down in the park
I doubt there's any significant difference. even a lot of the bolt-on stuff is interchangeable.

turbo's are different though... not enough to make significant maintenance differences though.
_________________________
AR Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2 -- TQI MC3 5w40

Top
Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 ... 9 10 >