Timing belt replacement. To water pump or not??

[artificialist]

Both my parents had a car where the t-belt was replaced, and then the water pump failed halfway in the life of the replacement timing belt.

Replace that water pump, it could easily fail halfway into the life of the replacement timing belt, and cost too much because of it.

And if I could, I would find the people responsible for making cars with timing belts, and hang them with one.

 

[kschachn]

And the tensioners, those too.

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Both my parents had a car where the t-belt was replaced, and then the water pump failed halfway in the life of the replacement timing belt.

Replace that water pump, it could easily fail halfway into the life of the replacement timing belt, and cost too much because of it.

And if I could, I would find the people responsible for making cars with timing belts, and hang them with one.

 

[Johnny248]

We orderd that kit from eBay. It shipped today so I'll update when it gets here. Don't know what I'll have to report. Hard to look at new parts and know anything. I still think that a complete kit like that with Korea vs China parts was to good to pass up for $72

 

[Johnny248]

Don't know if anyone is watching this anymore, but wanted to post an update.

I purchased a kit from eBay which included all Korean Parts

Timing Belt (forgot the name on it)
Tensioner - Djeng
Idler - Djeng
Water Pump & metal gasket - Auto Top Company
Drive Belts - Dongil
Crank, Cam, & oil pump seals.

All of the parts have Korea markings, everything seemed to be a high quality. The replacement went as expected. Nothing out of line to report. The worst part was removing the original water pump paper gasket which was a pain to get all cleaned off. The new pump came with a coated metal gasket, much better imo. I didn't replace any of the cam,crank, or oil pump seals. Didn't see any reason to go that far into it. Everything looked fine. In fact, the OEM Gates Powergrip T-Belt is still in pretty good shape. The OEM Bando drive belts were not in such great shape, had a bunch of cracking and some parts missing.

Everything is back together and running great. Hopefully it will last another 90k +

All of those Korea parts for $72 and free shipping. I think that I got a better deal and better parts than one of the China kits that are out there.

Original parts were Gates Timing Belt, Gates Tensioner with GMB Pulley on both the tensioner and idler. Bando drive belts. Hyundai/Kia marketed water pump.

Here are the pictures of of my kit (after I installed the parts of course, doh!) and some pics of the old parts.

 

[stephen9666]

I'm still watching. Pictures or uncommon part brands are one of my favorite things to see on the forum.

If you have any better pics of the new parts then post them up. I'd be very interested in seeing more of them.

 

[cptbarkey]

i'm experimenting with using a used (but excellent condition) water pump on a 2.2l subaru, as long as it looks good that is good enough for me. I would at least unbolt it, inspect the fins, and reseal it with permatex.

however this is quibbling over 20-50 bucks, in my case i'm trying to be cheap. but that depends on how you can sleep at night knowing those facts.

 

[Johnny248]

Here are some pics of the new tensioner, timing belt, and a/c belt installed.

 

[jim302]

For me, replacing the water pump depends on the replacement interval of the belt and what kind of pump you are going to install...

I wouldn't replace the OE pump with a rebuild or cheap aftermarket part of unknown quality at just 60,000 miles... chances are, the OE pump will probably be OK until 120,000 miles... on the other hand, on a car with a >100,000 mile replacement interval, I would replace the water pump since it probably won't last for over 200,000.

On the other hand, if I ran into a good deal on high quality parts like Johnny248 did, it probably would make sense to go ahead and replace the water pump regardless of the mileage.

 

[Rylan]

Interesting, I bought some Bando Rib-Ace belts that look identical to the Dongil, yet are made in Japan. Similar part numbers as well.
If OEM Hyundai/Kia Dongil-Bando are Korean made, why manufacture them in Japan as well? Are belts that widely used and interchangeable?

Most water pumps now come with a weep hole that allows you to see if the internal seal has failed or if it has seized.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: Rylan
Interesting, I bought some Bando Rib-Ace belts that look identical to the Dongil, yet are made in Japan. Similar part numbers as well.
If OEM Hyundai/Kia Dongil-Bando are Korean made, why manufacture them in Japan as well? Are belts that widely used and interchangeable?


I think there's a little confusion here.

Bando is a Japanese company and Dongil is a Korean company. They may look similar, but I think the two belts you're talking about may not be identical and were made by two separate companies.

I think many belts use part numbers that include standard industry size designations, so part numbers from multiple companies are often similar.

Dongil
http://drbcl.en.ec21.com/company_info.jsp

Bando
http://www.bando.co.jp/english-1/en-nt3.html

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: Rylan
Interesting, I bought some Bando Rib-Ace belts that look identical to the Dongil, yet are made in Japan. Similar part numbers as well.
If OEM Hyundai/Kia Dongil-Bando are Korean made, why manufacture them in Japan as well? Are belts that widely used and interchangeable?

Most water pumps now come with a weep hole that allows you to see if the internal seal has failed or if it has seized.


Belts are belts. Length, ribs, and and angle. The 855, 890 part of the number is the length and most companies share similar part numbers. Same goes for things like brake pads and other parts. Example d454 may be used my 20 different companies for a brake pad that all fit the same application.

Also, Brando does make belts in the us also. The oem alt and ac belts were Brando, where as the timing and PS were a Gates belt. I know it sounds weird, but I'm sure irnal has to so with vendor contracts and pricing as well.

 

[Johnny248]

I wish I could find a similar kit for my Eclipse. The OEM water pumps for that car about $200. I don't feel comfortable replacing it with a cheap China pump. I'm leaning towards just replacing the timing belt, idler and tensioner pulleys and hydraulic tensioner. I'm thinking OEM belt OE am Mitsiboshi (oem supplier) with the rest of those parts being aftermarket. The Kia water pump is very simple to replace so Im not as concerned about the aftermarket parts I put on it, but the Mitsu V6 is just more time consuming and not something I want to more than once because a cheap water pump went bad.

 

[Johnny248]

Oh, and one other note. I ended up replacing the coolant with Prestone Extended life because its silicate/phosphate/borate/nitrate free and I didn't have to make a trip to the dealer for it.

 

[SHOZ]

I'm doing the timing belt on my Hyundai Accent this weekend. New belts too. 90k miles and it's the second timing belt and tensioner. The idler is good. The accessory belts were pretty bad. The timing belt was still looking good.

But the tensioner spring had popped over the stop for the tang on one end and was bent by the crank pulley. It's been a while as the spring is pretty rusty. I guess I was lucky with that one.

 

[Ram01]

Save your money don't change the timing belt you can go 120k easy on the orginal belt

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
I wish I could find a similar kit for my Eclipse. The OEM water pumps for that car about $200. I don't feel comfortable replacing it with a cheap China pump. I'm leaning towards just replacing the timing belt, idler and tensioner pulleys and hydraulic tensioner. I'm thinking OEM belt OE am Mitsiboshi (oem supplier) with the rest of those parts being aftermarket. The Kia water pump is very simple to replace so Im not as concerned about the aftermarket parts I put on it, but the Mitsu V6 is just more time consuming and not something I want to more than once because a cheap water pump went bad.

I looked into rockauto, and I found some Aisin and Beck/Arnley pumps for much less. Beck/Arnley could very well be the overpriced OEM pump, and Aisin makes numerous OEM water pumps.

I would use that Aisin pump they have.

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: Ram01
Save your money don't change the timing belt you can go 120k easy on the orginal belt


Agreed. 2nd belt in 90k is too often. The belt I just replaced at ~90k still looked fine and Im sure had more like 150k on it.

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: artificialist

I looked into rockauto, and I found some Aisin and Beck/Arnley pumps for much less. Beck/Arnley could very well be the overpriced OEM pump, and Aisin makes numerous OEM water pumps.

I would use that Aisin pump they have.


I'll look at Rock. I don't ever plan to do business with them ago. I ordered parts from them once and had an issue. Their customer service was horrible and they refused to help at all with the situation. That left a bad taste in my mouth and I don't care much for them. You can buy parts at the same prices other places and I prefer to buy local when I can unless there is a big price difference.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
I ordered parts from them once and had an issue. Their customer service was horrible and they refused to help at all with the situation.



Hmmmm...

I've ordered a bunch of times from them (something like 15-20 times) and only once did I have a problem. Their customer service was very helpful and took care of the problem right away by shipping out another part for free and letting me keep the original part that had an issue.

Sometimes you can find similar prices at other places, but not always. I always shop around and the times I've ordered, RA was the cheapest. I also like that RA generally has very fast shipping. Amazon sometimes takes several days to ship my orders.

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: Johnny248
I ordered parts from them once and had an issue. Their customer service was horrible and they refused to help at all with the situation.



Hmmmm...

I've ordered a bunch of times from them (something like 15-20 times) and only once did I have a problem. Their customer service was very helpful and took care of the problem right away by shipping out another part for free and letting me keep the original part that had an issue.

Sometimes you can find similar prices at other places, but not always. I always shop around and the times I've ordered, RA was the cheapest. I also like that RA generally has very fast shipping. Amazon sometimes takes several days to ship my orders.


Well, I know a lot of people use then and are happy but I just had a bad experience

Try to make a long story short...

I ordered some front and rear sway bar bushings. I've worked 15+ years in the service side and every set of sway bar bushings have always come in a pair. There are two bushings per bar. So I got my order and I received one front and one rear bushing. I went back on the site to see if somewhere it said it only contains one part. It did not. I talked to them and explained the situation. They agreeded but said this only comes with one. So I offered to pay for the other parts and asked if they would at least cover the shipping and meet me in the middle since it would not have ended up costing me roughly a total of $20 for the shipping of of these bushings. I could have bought them all locally and saved some money. They wouldn't do anything at all to help me so I just said screw it. No more.

Just wasn't happy with the way it worked out