Amsoil not making PAO base synthetic oil anymore?

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: TTK

And how did you come to that conclusion since their formulation is proprietary and they won't say?

Ask Pablo.

I wish people would stop sweating over the base oils used. There is more to a good oil than that.


I think Mobil started it with their complaints about Castrol USA's marketing of a group III base Syntec as "synthetic". They were trying to gain a marketing advantage. Maybe even at the time a group IV/V base oil produced a better product, but these days the technology has advanced to the point where I believe "synthetic" is just another buzzword that's placed on the label to get people to pay more. Now it may be a better product regardless of what's in it, but if it doesn't say "synthetic" on the label, few people would pay a premium for it.


And what's so ironic is that Mobil 1 is now a grp III synth,and if you read their Visom presentation,they say verbatim that they intend to make the switch without alerting the paying consumers,knowing that customers will never know that they're not paying top dollar for pao basestocks.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
Wow, a secret recipe from Amsoil. LOL These days, any cie well equipped can break down the oil and see what is made of.


Yep, you could shell out $1,400.00 USD for a forensic's analysis of it, but you would not know the process nor the suppliers.

BTW, IP does not mean "Internet Protocol" rather it means "Intellectual Property" which includes "Trade Secrets." A trade secret means, "A formula, practice, process, design, instrument, pattern, or compilation of information used by a business to obtain an advantage over competitors within the same industry or profession."

Here is a solution:

See if you can get Amsoil or Shell or Mobil or JD Street, or Warren, or whomever to let you sign an NDA and then you will know what is in it.

 

[Tiboi]

Originally Posted By: Flareside302
Not better?!? Have you looked at NOACK? 4 ball wear test etc?

The only oil that comes close IMO is the SN formula of Pennzoil Ultra..


Amsoil is number 4 on this website . And it is only with 0w30. I can not put this one in my car so it does not mean anything for me.

It also depends where you take your data. There are many sources on the web and not all of them is doing it properly. Also the year in which they did the test is critical since oil cies change their recipe constantly.

Just curious, could give me your source? I would like to compare the results. Thanks

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Tiboi
Amsoil is number 4 on this website .

And here we go again with this irrelevant test. Please do a search. This has been beaten to death several times now.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
There are many sources on the web and not all of them is doing it properly.


And the proper way to make comparisons are???

 

[Tiboi]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
Wow, a secret recipe from Amsoil. LOL These days, any cie well equipped can break down the oil and see what is made of.


Yep, you could shell out $1,400.00 USD for a forensic's analysis of it, but you would not know the process nor the suppliers.


ok but saying they still use PAO, it is not like they reveal their recipe. There is nothing special in using PAO.

 

[kschachn]

Wow, that site. The questions... the answers! OMG, my eyes, my eyes!

Originally Posted By: Tiboi
Amsoil is number 4 on this website

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Tiboi
There is nothing special in using PAO.

So we're back to square one: why do you even care then?

 

[Tiboi]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Tiboi
There is nothing special in using PAO.

So we're back to square one: why do you even care then?


I mean, it is not like PAO is a secret itself. I would have like to get a group IV Synthetic oil made of it. Seems not possible anymore.

 

[threeputtpar]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Tiboi
There is nothing special in using PAO.

So we're back to square one: why do you even care then?

Wow, you guys really hit the bait HARD!

 

[Tiboi]

Originally Posted By: threeputtpar

Wow, you guys really hit the bait HARD!


keep dreaming!

I keep watching the show. You guys quit the show way to soon LOL

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
it is not like PAO is a secret itself. I would have like to get a group IV Synthetic oil made of it. Seems not possible anymore.


It is not like Cocoa Cola's water is a secret itself, nor is the steel in a car.

It never was possible to make a 100% PAO PCMO.

 

[vinu_neuro]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

But as far as questionable performance, have you ever come across a documented case where an Amsoil product caused a lubrication issue in a Euro engine?

By the way, I am not an Amsoil fanboy by any means. I have never used their products.


I have not come across an Amsoil product causing an engine failure. However, you don't need an engine failure for an engine to be compromised. It will happen with increased wear and piston deposits compared against what performance you'd get from a 229.5 or dexos product. That's the issue. How many people have run tests and then torn down the engines and measured the parts and checked engine/piston cleanliness with Amsoil products?

Has anyone ever verified that Amsoil meets dexos, Mercedes, VW, Porsche, BMW standards for oxidation, shear stability, sludge, cam/ring/bearing/timing chain wear, bore polishing, fuel economy standard, piston cleanliness,etc in the various fired engine tests?

Even if Amsoil was the same price as M1, SOPUS, Castrol, etc it'd be hard to go with them given the large manufacturer's resources and access to OEM's. But no one has any proof, including Amsoil, that they meet any of performance requirements of MB,VW,Porsche,BMW.

And where you pay $5/qt for M1 0W-40, Amsoil is $10+ /qt for 'comparable' products. So what are you paying for with their products? The lack of certainty that they perform past the meager API standards? Anyone can buy dino oil for $2/qt that meets API SN. Only a fool would buy Amsoil.

 

[Flareside302]

uhm dude.. Amsoil's OE is pretty much [censored] near equal to Mobil 1...

http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
You make it sound like PAO is some holy grail of motor oil. Newsflash: it is not.

That's right - that's reserved for VI.

 

[vinu_neuro]

Originally Posted By: Flareside302
uhm dude.. Amsoil's OE is pretty much [censored] near equal to Mobil 1...

http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html


That doesn't tell you anything about the performance of an oil, only the physical and chemical characteristics. You need fired engine and field tests, with subsequent teardowns and measurements and inspects to judge performance. Hence, OEM and industry approvals.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Flareside302
uhm dude.. Amsoil's OE is pretty much [censored] near equal to Mobil 1...

http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html

All this is telling you is that these oils are in line with API SN requirements. Another words, no red flags. You cannot draw any other conclusions from this as to the actual performance of the oils.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
You make it sound like PAO is some holy grail of motor oil. Newsflash: it is not.

That's right - that's reserved for VI.

 

[kschachn]

Actually it is making me wonder why I am spending more for M1 rather than just buying Supertech....

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Flareside302
uhm dude.. Amsoil's OE is pretty much [censored] near equal to Mobil 1...

http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html

All this is telling you is that these oils are in line with API SN requirements. Another words, no red flags. You cannot draw any other conclusions from this as to the actual performance of the oils.

 

[Tiboi]

Quote:

uhm dude.. Amsoil's OE is pretty much [censored] near equal to Mobil 1...

http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html

Nice info , thanks