Amsoil not making PAO base synthetic oil anymore?

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Hi, I just red the FAQ on their webiste:
Quote:
What kind of base stocks does AMSOIL use? Are AMSOIL synthetic lubricants PAO-based?
Answer: AMSOIL maintains formulation details as proprietary and does not divulge specifics regarding the type of synthetic base stocks used in its synthetic lubricants. AMSOIL developed the world’s first API-qualified synthetic motor oil in 1972 and has remained the leader in the synthetic lubricant industry by continually researching new technologies and demanding only the highest-quality raw materials. As the company moves forward with new technologies it is increasingly more important that this information remains proprietary. AMSOIL views synthetic base oils the same as it views additives, with each having its own set of unique properties. AMSOIL does not insist on a particular type of base stock, but insists on particular performance parameters. AMSOIL chooses whichever synthetic base stock or combination of base stocks delivers the desired result and tailors its lubricants to be application-specific (gasoline, diesel, racing, transmission, gear, extended drain, extreme temperatures, etc.). At the end of the day, the type of base stock used to formulate the oil is inconsequential; the product’s performance is what matters


So conclusion...they are still making good oil but they dont use PAO anymore but rather some excellent additives. Right?
 
Originally Posted By: Tiboi
So conclusion...they are still making good oil but they dont use PAO anymore

How did you come to this conclusion? That is not what was written in the above paragraph. As most other oil manufacturers, Amsoil uses a combination of different oil bases to achieve the desired performance. This may include some PAO in some cases, but not necessarily in every product they sell. For example, their XL line is predominantly group III based.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Tiboi
So conclusion...they are still making good oil but they dont use PAO anymore

For example, their XL line is predominantly group III based.


And how did you come to that conclusion since their formulation is proprietary and they won't say?
shocked.gif
 
I'm sure Amsoil is not POA alone but a blend of several base stocks. XM has been doing that for many years now and their oils are better now than any time I have used their lubes. Amsoil is a very good product, so use it with confidence.
 
Amsoil used to claim "Genuine PAO" and plaster it on their boxes. Amsoil ended up doing what Mobil and others were doing and that is mixing several different high end base oisl to formulate the final product. Amsoil followed others here.

Based on NOACK volatility, I'd say they are majority PAO though.
 
Originally Posted By: TTK

And how did you come to that conclusion since their formulation is proprietary and they won't say?
shocked.gif


Ask Pablo.

I wish people would stop sweating over the base oils used. There is more to a good oil than that.
 
Checking the flash point listed on the PDS is a clue to base stock. If it's 230 C (446 F) or higher it likely has a majority of PAO as the base.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
Amsoil used to claim "Genuine PAO" and plaster it on their boxes.


That is exactly what I mean! They don't mention it anymore.

If they are still using some PAO in their mix, they would have been proud to mention it in their FAQ section, no? I mean logically. I am not expecting them to tell me their recipe but rather inform people if their synthetic oil is made or not of PAO base oil. They are getting away with their long answer and avoiding the real topic.. It is not because they are Amsoil that they god, sounds like a religion thing for some people.

Again I do believe they still doing of of the best oil on the market, but I am not going to get fool
crazy.gif
that they are still making Group IV oil without prove of it. If the base oil is not PAO, they can not be group IV, thats' it. They are in group III like the others.
 
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Quote:
If they are still using some PAO in their mix, they would have been proud to mention it in their FAQ section, no? I mean logically. I am not expecting them to tell me their recipe but rather inform people if their synthetic oil is made or not of PAO base oil.


There is a contradiction here. You are expecting them to tell you if there is GroupIV in the mix, but you are expecting them NOT to tell you their recipe?

Quote:
They are getting away with their long answer and avoiding the real topic.. It is not because they are Amsoil that they god, sounds like a religion thing for some people.


Amsoil religion? That's a new one on me!
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They are not getting away with anything, they are protecting their IP.

Quote:
AMSOIL developed the world’s first API-qualified synthetic motor oil in 1972 and has remained the leader in the synthetic lubricant industry by continually researching new technologies and demanding only the highest-quality raw materials.


And they didn't tell you they used a GroupV base oil of di-esters in the 1972 API 10W40. So what is your point again?
 
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There is nothing "proprietary" about the base oils used in synthetic motor oil formulations. Every manufacturer knows what base oils are used in their competitor's oils, and the consuming public are hardly a threat, so who are companies trying to protect themselves from? The real technology lies in the additive system.

For decades synthetic oil manufacturers openly disclosed their base oils, and only in the last few years, after Group IIIs became the economical choice, did this information suddenly become secret.

My rule of thumb is that any synthetic motor oil manufacturer who does not proudly boast that they are exclusively using expensive Group IV and V base oils probably are not. Silence on the subject promotes consumer perceptions that the base oils are unchanged from the last disclosed composition, which for many companies is desirable.

Tom NJ
 
Quote:
My rule of thumb is that any synthetic motor oil manufacturer who does not proudly boast that they are exclusively using expensive Group IV and V base oils probably are not.


I would only add that they are all using mixes of GroupIII, IV, and V in various ratios to achieve a specific performance/cost ratio.
 
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Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
There is nothing "proprietary" about the base oils used in synthetic motor oil formulations. Every manufacturer knows what base oils are used in their competitor's oils, and the consuming public are hardly a threat, so who are companies trying to protect themselves from? The real technology lies in the additive system.

For decades synthetic oil manufacturers openly disclosed their base oils, and only in the last few years, after Group IIIs became the economical choice, did this information suddenly become secret.

My rule of thumb is that any synthetic motor oil manufacturer who does not proudly boast that they are exclusively using expensive Group IV and V base oils probably are not. Silence on the subject promotes consumer perceptions that the base oils are unchanged from the last disclosed composition, which for many companies is desirable.

Tom NJ


Well said!!!
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Originally Posted By: Tiboi
If they are still using some PAO in their mix, they would have been proud to mention it in their FAQ section, no?

You make it sound like PAO is some holy grail of motor oil. Newsflash: it is not.

The question in the FAQ was: What kind of base stocks does AMSOIL use? Are AMSOIL synthetic lubricants PAO-based?

They cannot possibly answer this with a blanket statement that all their lubricants are PAO-based because they're not. They've got a number of product lines in their offering. Some may include some PAO. Others may not.

Just as their competitors do, Amsoil uses a mix of various base stocks and just chose not to disclose them all. That does not automatically mean that they don't use PAO in some of their products.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: TTK

And how did you come to that conclusion since their formulation is proprietary and they won't say?
shocked.gif


Ask Pablo.

I wish people would stop sweating over the base oils used. There is more to a good oil than that.



+1 Wife's tales...
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: TTK

And how did you come to that conclusion since their formulation is proprietary and they won't say?
shocked.gif


Ask Pablo.

I wish people would stop sweating over the base oils used. There is more to a good oil than that.


I think Mobil started it with their complaints about Castrol USA's marketing of a group III base Syntec as "synthetic". They were trying to gain a marketing advantage. Maybe even at the time a group IV/V base oil produced a better product, but these days the technology has advanced to the point where I believe "synthetic" is just another buzzword that's placed on the label to get people to pay more. Now it may be a better product regardless of what's in it, but if it doesn't say "synthetic" on the label, few people would pay a premium for it.
 
All these labels, titles and categories mean nothing. Spec's are what you're looking for. Well, that and real world performance as expressed in the analysis of used oil. If the oil in question meets the spec for your vehicle and the viscosity is appropriate for your situation then you're done. Oh, and if it's on sale so much the better. All the rest is hype. If Amsoil meets our spec and you're okay with the price and you've carefully searched the UOA's then you're done. Again, what's on the label is data or hype or noise, not information.
 
Who cares what the base oils are. What matters is industry and OEM approvals, and Amsoil is pretty lacking. And it's expensive. Anyone who'd use it over M1, PP, PU, etc is out of their mind.
 
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