why people hate ford?

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Originally Posted By: andrewg
My future purchase will be based on reliability, economy, and overall usefulness.

what source do you use to determine reliability?
 
Originally Posted By: Paul3637
I personally hate fords because all five I owned between model years 1968 and 1989 were a lemons ....... with special focus on engine and electrical problems despite flawless maintenance.

Ford just cannot ever get it right. Their direct injection eco boost engines are having deposit problems due to faulty design.

The Fusion is made in mexico by the way ..... camry is #1 domestic content car.

As consumer reports found, the Fusion's EPA mileage cannot be duplicated in the real world.

Repairs with ford: CONSTANT
Switched to Toyota/Lexus in 1991 ... since then, total family miles (wife & grown kids now) over 1.5 million ....... not a one of us has had a single warranty claim or repair bill other than flawless maintenance, tires, batteries and brakes.

The small displacement DI Turbos are a disaster. The titanium gets worse gas mileage and has slower acceleration the Camry V6.


Amazing that you haven't had a frame rot in half, an engine sludge up or snapped a camshaft (guess you've not owned a Tundra or Tacoma eh?).

Yes, the Fusion is assembled in Mexico, at one of the few plants that Ford operates there.

For reference:

1. AutoAlliance International - Flat Rock, Michigan
2. Buffalo Stamping - Buffalo, New York
3. Chicago Assembly - Chicago, Illinois
4. Chicago Stamping - Chicago Heights, Illinois
5. Cleveland Casting - Brook Park, Ohio
6. Cleveland Engine #1 - Brook Park, Ohio
7. Cleveland Engine #2 - Brook Park, Ohio
8. Dearborn Engine - Dearborn, Michigan
9. Dearborn Stamping - Dearborn, Michigan
10. Dearborn Truck - Dearborn, Michigan
11. Ford Renaissance Global Logistics - Detroit, Michigan
12. Essex Engine - Windsor, Ontario
13. Kansas City Assembly - Claycomo, Missouri
14. Kentucky Truck Assembly - Louisville, Kentucky
15. Lima Engine - Lima, Ohio
16. Livonia Transmission - Livonia, Michigan
17. Louisville Assembly Plant - Louisville, Kentucky
18. Michigan Assembly Plant - Wayne, Michigan
19. New Model Programs Development Center - Allen Park, Michigan
20. Oakville Assembly - Oakville, Ontario
21. Ohio Assembly - Avon Lake, Ohio
22. Rawsonville Parts - Ypsilanti, Michigan
23. Romeo Engine - Romeo, Michigan
24. Sharonville Transmission - Sharonville, Ohio
25. St. Thomas Assembly - Talbotville, Ontario (closing)
26. Twin Cities Assembly Plant - St. Paul, Minnesota (closing)
27. Van Dyke Transmission Plant - Sterling Heights, Michigan
28. Walton Hills Stamping - Walton Hills, Ohio
29. Wayne Stamping & Assembly - Wayne, Michigan
30. Windsor Engine - Windsor, Ontario
31. Woodhaven Forging - Woodhaven, Michigan
32. Woodhaven Stamping - Woodhaven, Michigan


Their Mexican operations consist of:

1. Blue Diamond Truck - Escobedo General, Nuevo Leon
2. Chihuahua Engine - Chihuahua, Chihuahua
3. Cuautitlán Assembly - Cuautitln Izcalli
4. Hermosillo Stamping & Assembly - Hermosillo, Sonora
5. IMMSA - Monterrey, Nuevo Len


In comparison:

Toyota:

1. Cambridge, Ontario
2. Woodstock, Ontario
3. Canadian Autoparts Toyota, Inc. (CAPTIN), Delta, British Columbia

4. Toyota Motor Manufacturing Mississippi
5. Toyota Motor Manufacturing Kentucky, Inc
6. Toyota Motor Manufacturing Texas, Inc (TMMTX)
7. Toyota Motor Manufacturing Indiana, Inc.
8. Toyota Motor Manufacturing Alabama, Inc. (TMMAL)
9. Toyota Motor Manufacturing West Virginia, Inc. (TMMWV)

Oh, and Toyota Mexico
wink.gif


1.Toyota Motor Manufacturing de Baja California, Baja California – Toyota Tacoma
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Well, many many thousands of buyers have a different impression because they did not buy a Ford.

Not all of us feel that Ford simply "outclasses" the competition.

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I suppose that "pretty clearly" depends on what you like in a vehicle, and what you want in a vehicle. Vehicles on both sides of the hyphens above have pros and cons. To someone who owns three Fords, I'm sure the Ford products DO look pretty good. To someone else, they may not.


In a good percentage of those classes, Ford is matching and/or beating the Chevrolet counterpart in sales with significantly higher average transaction prices, especially true in the case of the Fusion/Malibu, Focus/Cruze, Fiesta/Sonic, and Escape/Equinox. I'm not sure how you interpret "outclassing", but if sales are comparable (or in Ford's favor) yet customers are paying ~$1.5K-$3K more for the Ford counterpart on average, the market must agree that Ford has GM outclassed in those segments.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-31...ding-camry.html


While I respect the logic I must say that this may simply make Ford buyers more gullible!

J/K, but in all seriousness there is a reason that Ford is not the only mfgr of automobiles selling in the US. While their marketing expertise is plainly obvious in their sales numbers and their quality is competitive there remain many many other choices, and that's good for everyone...
 
Maybe since they don't have to? And with all the GM's I've had if they chased any bugs out they must of caused new ones.. same with Dodge. Not impressed.. if I had time I need to go back and find your post Steve where you state your unbiased when it comes to car brands. Doesn't seem the case eh?
 
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Maybe since they don't have to? And with all the GM's I've had if they chased any bugs out they must of caused new ones.. same with Dodge. Not impressed.. if I had time I need to go back and find your post Steve where you state your unbiased when it comes to car brands. Doesn't seem the case eh?


Well, since we owned 3 Fords up until last year you may not know everything you imagine you do. The article I posted is factual, what kind of 'bias' is that?

I am definitely unbiased. Our purchases show it. The only GM products I even own these days are fleet trucks.

What kind of bias are you alleging? You may wish to note your own bias first and work on that...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Maybe since they don't have to? And with all the GM's I've had if they chased any bugs out they must of caused new ones.. same with Dodge. Not impressed.. if I had time I need to go back and find your post Steve where you state your unbiased when it comes to car brands. Doesn't seem the case eh?


Well, since we owned 3 Fords up until last year you may not know everything you imagine you do. The article I posted is factual, what kind of 'bias' is that?

I am definitely unbiased. Our purchases show it. The only GM products I even own these days are fleet trucks.

What kind of bias are you alleging? You may wish to note your own bias first and work on that...


3 Ford's only huh? And up till last year so none currently. Let's see you referred to the ecoboost as "ego boost" in another thread if I remember correctly. You know that Chevy in my list below has a leak at the front and rear of the trans, may have to replace the PS pump.. compared to my grandparents 04 Ford E450 with 40k only 10k more than ours they have had no issues period. Chevy/Dodge are the 2 I won't own... just common and financial sense not to buy certain makes/models. Oh yeah and your Charger may be fast but it sucks
grin.gif
 
I didn't like them as a kid, I got caught up in the Ford/Chevy. What I think happened was my mother got me a subscription to Super Chevy instead of Fabulous Ford or whatever, and it just stuck. Over time I did notice that Ford seemed to have these little changes every so often, while GM seemed to make the same thing unchanged for decades. [Whether that is a plus or a minus depends upon if it was done right in the first place.]

My brother has been buying used Exploders, and he seems to have the worst luck. My VW has had less issues. His current one had to have the engine replaced for the timing chain; something about running one of the chains on the backside of the motor, and being cheaper to just replace... I think the replacement motor pulled the same failure mode in short order too. Transmission has gone at least once, and I recall him having a devil of a time getting rear idler arms for it--like they weren't available for a year. HVAC controls that don't work. Right now if he pulls a trailer the headlights don't come on, or maybe it's the blinkers--can't pull his popup at night because of it. This is the the second or third Exploder with the same pattern of random stuff breaking.

Of course, what they did in the 70's / 80's is pretty irrevalent now. What they did in the 90's too. Heck, what they did up until like 2005 is probably irrevelent. The Big 3 have made huge strides.

I still don't like 'em though. I have a tough time wading through what they did historically (fallen apart) and what these latest models will do at high miles.
 
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Maybe since they don't have to? And with all the GM's I've had if they chased any bugs out they must of caused new ones.. same with Dodge. Not impressed.. if I had time I need to go back and find your post Steve where you state your unbiased when it comes to car brands. Doesn't seem the case eh?


Well, since we owned 3 Fords up until last year you may not know everything you imagine you do. The article I posted is factual, what kind of 'bias' is that?

I am definitely unbiased. Our purchases show it. The only GM products I even own these days are fleet trucks.

What kind of bias are you alleging? You may wish to note your own bias first and work on that...


3 Ford's only huh? And up till last year so none currently. Let's see you referred to the ecoboost as "ego boost" in another thread if I remember correctly. You know that Chevy in my list below has a leak at the front and rear of the trans, may have to replace the PS pump.. compared to my grandparents 04 Ford E450 with 40k only 10k more than ours they have had no issues period. Chevy/Dodge are the 2 I won't own... just common and financial sense not to buy certain makes/models. Oh yeah and your Charger may be fast but it sucks
grin.gif



Missed again! It's a 300C SRT8. MUCH better than a Charger!!!

Ego boosters are just that. We had them, they do not get the magic mileage that Ford advertises even when driven by a nearly 80 year old man. Plus Ford actually states in an ad in Car and Driver that they "burn air, not fuel"! I cannot believe you Ford fans fell for it.

And remember there is no such thing as "Common Sense". Since only some have it it should be called UNcommon!
 
Originally Posted By: supton
I didn't like them as a kid, I got caught up in the Ford/Chevy. What I think happened was my mother got me a subscription to Super Chevy instead of Fabulous Ford or whatever, and it just stuck. Over time I did notice that Ford seemed to have these little changes every so often, while GM seemed to make the same thing unchanged for decades. [Whether that is a plus or a minus depends upon if it was done right in the first place.]

My brother has been buying used Exploders, and he seems to have the worst luck. My VW has had less issues. His current one had to have the engine replaced for the timing chain; something about running one of the chains on the backside of the motor, and being cheaper to just replace... I think the replacement motor pulled the same failure mode in short order too. Transmission has gone at least once, and I recall him having a devil of a time getting rear idler arms for it--like they weren't available for a year. HVAC controls that don't work. Right now if he pulls a trailer the headlights don't come on, or maybe it's the blinkers--can't pull his popup at night because of it. This is the the second or third Exploder with the same pattern of random stuff breaking.

Of course, what they did in the 70's / 80's is pretty irrevalent now. What they did in the 90's too. Heck, what they did up until like 2005 is probably irrevelent. The Big 3 have made huge strides.

I still don't like 'em though. I have a tough time wading through what they did historically (fallen apart) and what these latest models will do at high miles.


Actually my fleet experience with GM is quite good here. We have several which means at least we are not railing about a single vehicle. But my own cars are not GM and my Wife will consider anything she has a fancy for when she buys a new car/truck this year sometime.

I really feel it is a bit of a [censored], you can get a bad example out of any mfgr. From what I've seen even the unhappy customers could easily be won over with some great service but that rarely happens at the stealership.

I have had bad experiences at all of the Big 3, and a couple of Imports. That's where they should spend the money resolving problems quickly and then it wouldn't be a 'marked for life' issue to some of us!
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Maybe since they don't have to? And with all the GM's I've had if they chased any bugs out they must of caused new ones.. same with Dodge. Not impressed.. if I had time I need to go back and find your post Steve where you state your unbiased when it comes to car brands. Doesn't seem the case eh?


Well, since we owned 3 Fords up until last year you may not know everything you imagine you do. The article I posted is factual, what kind of 'bias' is that?

I am definitely unbiased. Our purchases show it. The only GM products I even own these days are fleet trucks.

What kind of bias are you alleging? You may wish to note your own bias first and work on that...


3 Ford's only huh? And up till last year so none currently. Let's see you referred to the ecoboost as "ego boost" in another thread if I remember correctly. You know that Chevy in my list below has a leak at the front and rear of the trans, may have to replace the PS pump.. compared to my grandparents 04 Ford E450 with 40k only 10k more than ours they have had no issues period. Chevy/Dodge are the 2 I won't own... just common and financial sense not to buy certain makes/models. Oh yeah and your Charger may be fast but it sucks
grin.gif



Missed again! It's a 300C SRT8. MUCH better than a Charger!!!

Ego boosters are just that. We had them, they do not get the magic mileage that Ford advertises even when driven by a nearly 80 year old man. Plus Ford actually states in an ad in Car and Driver that they "burn air, not fuel"! I cannot believe you Ford fans fell for it.

And remember there is no such thing as "Common Sense". Since only some have it it should be called UNcommon!


Sorry had to type quick had another meeting.. truthfully SRT's of any flavor are pretty cool. Just have a hard time owning one. Don't own a ecoboost so can't comment.. I'd stay away just because of the turbo simpler the better in my book. You got that right common sense isn't so common anymore!
 
Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
Originally Posted By: andrewg
My future purchase will be based on reliability, economy, and overall usefulness.

what source do you use to determine reliability?

Any and all sources available. History of the make/model (if it exists), recalls, opinions of actual owners, message boards, word of mouth, and any other resource I can get my hands on. For instance, while at this time I do not like Ford (see previous post), I do know that one of the most reliable small trucks I've ever owned ( I've had two) was a Ford Ranger. (4 cylinder). I knew that from research before buying....and this was confirmed after owning two. My current Ford (2009 Focus) WAS a great car for about 2 years. After that it started having too many issues. I have taken very good care of this car but it was to no avail. A single lemon out of the bunch? Maybe, but from the research I did AFTER purchasing the car, I found out the issues I was having had been similar to what others had dealt with. The car, in my opinion, was cheaply produced using poor materials. And for that, I am done with Ford.
 
Since purchasing my first new vehicle in 1972 I've only owned VW's and Ford's. I've had mixed results with new VW quality but for me my new Fords have been relatively trouble free. And work I needed done was good by the selling dealer. In one case they even got Ford to pay for a clutch repair out of warranty time wise, the only major problem I've experienced my new Ford's over the years. I've been happy with them and will stick with them. And yes, you can get good and bad vehicles from any manufacture.

Whimsey
 
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: Spazdog

No, that's irony.

Ford sent Hitler 50,000 Deutsch Marks every year on Hitler's birthday. That's verifiable.



Priceless!


This is in fact a very heavy issue that took me many years to even begin considering. It's indeed quite disconcerting, this story, and people would soil their jockey shorts to really know how many prominent figures, were, and still are now, nazis (come from nazi roots, cling to nazi values) and there's a saying that goes something like 'a leopard doesn't change it's spots'. The nazis never lost WW2- they just dispersed and cleverly integrated. Most of the current actions and efforts of the resulting institutions, when examined very closely and fundamentally, result in death, illness, genocide war, disease, extortion (taxes/fines) and oppression; the complete opposite of their outward appearance- ie health, medical, government, safety, banking, charity orgs.

Of course it's not obvious to see, you have to step back, shake off the conditions and belief systems that were solicited to you and accepted without a second though- (if we understand language, we all have these) put all those preconceptions of normalcy aside, and look at the bare cause-effect model in front of you. I won't go into much more detail. {removed rant that was messing up formatting of page}

These institutions operate on severe and secure concentric rings of "compartmentalization", where less then 1% know the true intentions and call the shots. The labour force producing for these people are regular people and think they are doing good and helping- and they're not about ready to think any differently. The levels of compartmentalization are highly advanced and was done so by the nazis during the WW2 era itself. During the war, these people owned science (and still do- where are the major chemical companies located? BASF? IG FARBEN? etc). They spent a lot of time and resources (and lives) conducting this research- the research of CONTROL; the control of information, the control of minds, the control of desires. This area of science is now one of the most advanced - ever.

A direct symptom of why 'things' seem to keep getting worse, and not better, despite knowing that they should be getting better. Fluoride in the water since WW2 era, mercury being refined and integrated into populations-one fluorescent tube can gas a huge amount of people- mercury vapour poisoning is subtle and mostly undetected by the injured) Vaccines have clever organomercuries installed in those things. How many of you have mercury IN YOUR MOUTH off gassing vapour for your whole life?
This is progress- autism exploding exponentially, alzheimers/dementia/parkinsons/memory loss/irrationality/ ie more syndromes and diseases rooted specifically in neurological injury, then the political side of economic dependency (food stamps, welfare), while continuing to extort the working man more and more with taxes and inflation to the point he breaks. It's not a mistake, all this degeneration.

If you have time and curiosity,
Google the symptoms of mercury vapour poisoning.
Google the symptoms of cumulative fluoride poisoning.
Google the history of using fluoride as a drug and effects on IQ, self-direction, motivation and complacency.
Google the Prozac molecule, not the fluorine molecule and read it's product sheet about suicidal thoughts and psychological effects.
Google fluoride's affinity to bind to Iodine receptors, displacing it, causing thyroid problems, and thusly weight problems. Are people getting fatter? Dumber?
With fluoride displacing iodine, how about iodine? It's the most common deficiency?
"Iodine deficiency is the single most common cause of preventable mental retardation and brain damage in the world." Is that true? Does fluoride displacing iodine in biology have any relation?
How about the ADA/CDA's INSISTENCE on fluoride being self-medicated by people each day via toothpaste and lobbying (successfully) for water fluoridation in certain areas.
While you're on google, find out the electronegativity of fluorine, as an element and compare it to every other element on the table.
Go to wal mart and go to the water section, look for a jug of baby distilled water that's been redoped with fluoride.

As many 'traps' as there are for us to fall from, the use of fluoride and mercury as drugs and population control agents is borne directly out of nazi science; look around, notice anything? What is going on here?

But I digress. Yup H. Ford nazi sympathizer/association one of the best known (relatively) examples that got out of the bag, but NOT close to being the only one we now "know and trust" that have secret, inverse interests than what we would imagine and have believed.



THIS. Friends, wake up.
 
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
As a Ford truck guy, in all honesty I think Henry Ford was a nut job and had a screw loose. Dude had some really crazy ideas and world views. He probably could have/would have been institutionalized had he not been smart enough to develop affordable cars. The Nazi sympathies, Harry Bennett (his company thug), etc. kind of point to him being not very rational and definitely a nasty person to a lot of people.

He made his own son, who was a pretty decent hard working person, absolutely miserable. Edsel Ford had stomach ulcers and a laundry list of other health issues due to the pressure his father put on him. Nothing Edsel did was ever good enough, despite Edsel actually being very competent and sane compared to his father.

Henry Ford did lay a lot of the groundwork for North America's auto industry, but I don't really idolize him. It just so happens that from about 1967 to about 2011 the company he founded built trucks that I really like. Those trucks are the products of other people, who will never make it into history books.


Knowing what you do. Why would you want to associate yourself with those people? Why would you want to support their legacy? By driving a Ford you technically stand for everything the founder believed in, whether ignorant of it or not.
 
Originally Posted By: Peted
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
As a Ford truck guy, in all honesty I think Henry Ford was a nut job and had a screw loose. Dude had some really crazy ideas and world views. He probably could have/would have been institutionalized had he not been smart enough to develop affordable cars. The Nazi sympathies, Harry Bennett (his company thug), etc. kind of point to him being not very rational and definitely a nasty person to a lot of people.

He made his own son, who was a pretty decent hard working person, absolutely miserable. Edsel Ford had stomach ulcers and a laundry list of other health issues due to the pressure his father put on him. Nothing Edsel did was ever good enough, despite Edsel actually being very competent and sane compared to his father.

Henry Ford did lay a lot of the groundwork for North America's auto industry, but I don't really idolize him. It just so happens that from about 1967 to about 2011 the company he founded built trucks that I really like. Those trucks are the products of other people, who will never make it into history books.


Knowing what you do. Why would you want to associate yourself with those people? Why would you want to support their legacy? By driving a Ford you technically stand for everything the founder believed in, whether ignorant of it or not.


So by using electricity, you support everything Thomas Edison, who was just as nutty as Henry Ford, supported too, right? Time to light the candles up big guy and move into a log cabin! Unless of course you don't support the genocide and atrocities committed towards the native peoples by the pioneers and subsequently, likely your relatives. And if that's the case you might as well just crack out the noose and hang yourself now.
 
My only experiences lately for comparison are with a Toyota Camry 2013 and two Ford Fusions, a 2012 and 2013, all rentals and all with the V6's.

Fit, form, space, power, interior noise, and overall handling goes without a doubt to the Ford Fusions over the Camry.
 
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