A solvent for cold sludge please?

[ordinarybloke]

What's a good liquid solvent agent for dissolving oil sludge?

I'm sure this question has been asked afore only I've looked and I can't see too much so for this Brits first post I ask...

I have I suspect a restricted PCV crankcase breather preventing the negative crankcase pressure most modern engines require for oil control. better compression, emissions and in the case of race engines, power. On many cars clearing sections of the PCV breather is not easy. They are above the oil line so a standard BG109 or similar solvent-flush will not flush the section of the hard -to-get-at bit of the PCV venting in the block. It's above the waterline so to speak i.e., where you would want to flush is not an oil feed, but a restricted or blocked air-way.

I may have an idea that does not involve the time/hassle or leak risk associated with dropping the pan and resealing it, Dropping the sump is a PITA on my Volvo V70 [Volvos & Saabs are known for PCV breather issues.] it involves taking down half the suspension, PAS pipes, the lot. Sod that...

I intend to get the engine hot, switch it off and just fill the sump with solvent via the dip-stick tube.

Then 'cos I have an external pump, if I circulate the flush back out via the dips stick tube, pump it into the vacuum hose feeding into the PCV venting, so that it drops into the PCV vents flushing the vents on the way,. Engine off, the solvent will stay in the sump and get pumped around the PCV breather vents.

Thus the engine is never run. Solvent stays in the sump and target-flushes the PCV system only.

Then I drain the flush and replace with a favourite flavour of synthetic oil?
So, my question… Will it fly? Is this a plan?
Any suggestions please on an effective solvent agent that can dissolve oil sludge. I can leave it pumping round for a few hours. Engine off. It hinges ont he quality of the solvent.

I see an issue, Since the process I have in mind does not run the fluid through the engine at all before being drained-off, it will be done cold.

So gents, I've heard of some using ATF, but what should my solvent be?

BG109 for example and most sludge solvents I'm guessing do their best working hot? Once the engine cools, what solvent, if any will also work cold? On my car to get to the PCV ports I will need to get the intake manifold off so it won't be hot for too long.

 

[Shannow]

The other year, I sponsored an undergrad thesis in colourimetric analysis of sludge/varnish in oils.

The sample wasfiltered through a filter paper, and the "oil" washed out leaving the varnish on the patch. Washing was petrol and toluene...and they left the varnish.

So you'll need something polar...acetone/MEK might work, but they'll destroy gaskets and seals.

Water/detergent/caustic based might work, make a godawful soapy mess maybe.

I HAVE done a kerosene fill and idle with 60s design holden sixes that were really badly sludged, but would never advise it to you on a more modern donk.

 

[salv]

Berryman B12 Chemtool has Acetone, Toluene, MethylEthylKetone.

 

[Trav]

Pro-Tec in the green bottle may just do the trick and its readily available.

 

[ordinarybloke]

Thanks fellas... I may have thsi wrong, I did a test on BG 109 cold. In that i left the old clogged PCV brehter pipe dipped in it for 5 minutes and it had little or no effect. It was this that had me assume rightly or wrongly that I need heat with BG109 and thus I assume all the usual purpsoe made Engine-flush products.

But I am mystified, BG109 and most of he flush products want you to put it in cold, and then bring to temperture, but this may well be to make the unclogging more gentle, afterall if it all falls off at once, in lumps it would block oil-ways soemwhere else. So bringing it to tempearature would slow this, but now I'm guessing.

So Protec flsuh get around the 'cold' problem? Is it diferent?

 

[Astro14]

If your problem is in a Volvo V-70, a blocked PCV is very common and there is simply one way to do it: replace all, and I mean all, the PCV components. When the flame trap box is removed from the front of the block, you can check the drain into the block with a stiff bit of plastic, like a 1/4" zip tie, to ensure that hole is clear. If that hole is clear, you can bolt up your new flame trap, re-install the intake manifold and be all set.

If that hole is plugged, then yes, you're going to have to drop the pan. A bit of chemical on the top of that plug simply will not be enough to make a difference. The pan isn't that bed, two dozen bolts to the block, two to the transmission, and you'll need the Volvo sealant and o-rings to re-seal it when done. Volvo sells this as a kit, I believe. If you've got the oil cooler, you'll need two new o-rings for that too. I am not certain what year you're talking about, but removing the sump/pan on my V-70s only requires those bolts, no suspension or other work...it's straightforward...you may be able to free up that drain hole by poking it with your plastic bit used to check it, but you're knocking chunks of sludge into the sump, and that would not be my first choice for technique...

Use a good synthetic oil, suitable for extended drain in this engine to avoid future PCV troubles. I have 152,000 miles on the T5 on the original PCV system. At 173,000 miles, the XC is starting to show signs, and I need to get a gauge on it to see if it's time...

My rant about using the right oil in an V-70XC on another forum here: http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?19629-Oil-Rant/page5&highlight=oil+rant

 

[Trav]

Quote:
So Protec flsuh get around the 'cold' problem? Is it diferent?

Yes it is designed to work cold and it works well.
I stumbled on this product in Germany 20 years ago when it was unheard of, its made near Manchester UK.

Since that time it has achieved a huge following, they don't have reps going garage to garage anymore selling it, its on the shelves in a lot of parts stores.
I noticed just last month it has replaced Germany's largest seller of these kinds of product in many large parts outlets.

After cycling it a few hours this stuff is safe enough to idle the engine for 15 min with to clean up any debris that may have been dislodged.
All their product are excellent, unfortunately they are for the most part not available in the US.
I have a good stash.

 

[ordinarybloke]

Thanks fo your info. Actually i'm now belatedly aware of doing the Volvo PCV the right way. I don't want to turn this into a Volvo thread. There\'s plenty of info on the Volvo PCV around. I want to know the answer to a more general question.

==================================
Non-Volvo people skip this, irrelevenat to you..
BTW: The 5/8" mod etc etc. I've done it. The block has a saxophone like hook in it which prevent you cleaning it. You really need the sump off, but I avoided it. Mine was complety clogged. I used an airline into the ports. I also ran some flush in hte standard way, to do it and it helped. but... not completly.
The man is spot-on. Synth is the way to go with these cars, and I did get it clear simply by going for a 500 mile blast after getting it partilly clear. Syth did it. Gradually I got my -ve vaccuum back. -2 Kpa (not much) But what I'm after here is the de-facto solution...
================================

Back to the question, because thsi msut apply to amny cars... Which solvent works cold?

 

[ordinarybloke]

Sorry our posts crossed. , I have my answer. Protec, and it's a Brit product too? This sort of thing is usually made Yankside. Unusual. Thanks.

 

[ordinarybloke]

If you think about it, most of the time for teh reasosn above, a solvent that works cold could be a very bad thing.

 

[Trav]

Thats probably why they use zinc as a protectant for moving parts while its in the sump.
It is an idle only product.
It might be worth making a call and getting their input.

http://www.protec-autocare.com/engine_flush.php

 

[Donald]

Forget adding ATF to the engine oil. Its a bad idea.

 

[ordinarybloke]

Protec the Blurb....

=========================
PRO TEC
PROTEC ENGINE FLUSH
LUBRICATION SYSTEM CELANER

375ml

Remove all sludge, carbon build-up and varnish from inside the engine.
Clean and free hydraulic lifters
Improve engine efficiency
Optimise compressions by removing carbon build up from rings
Keep new oil cleaner longer
Lubricate whilst cleaning

Application Fields
For all petrol and diesel engines, manual transmissions and differentials, motorcycles and other high speed engines.

Application
Add to the old circulation system prior to oil change.
Allow the engine to idle for approximately 15 minutes, afterwards carry out an oil change in the accordance to the manufacturer’s instructions.

======================================

I'm trying to get hold of Protec Tech support but not having too much luck. Standby


The blurb seems to raed like any other flush

 

[ordinarybloke]

Yes, there won't be an issue with ATF, no so much because it's a bad idea, sorry I can't see how it could harm the sump or the PCV system? It just won't work as a solvent... not cold.

 

[ordinarybloke]

Just managed to get hold of Alan at Protec. He says his product works optimally with heat, from thsi I assuem much like any other flush, but added that 'cold' he demonstrates it on sales visits in a test tube, and it knocks back sludge cold, which in my experince BG109 won't do. Protec will work cold, but is not as effective cold nor was it designed to be.

Thus it is not really what we're after, but failing all else I'll give it a go.

 

[Trav]

Good to know i saw the demo's with cold product right out of the can and it did work in the demo's.
At the garage back then we had a rep come and demo the product on a cold motor, it worked well.

Thanks for getting a hold of them and the info.

 

[ordinarybloke]

I'm told it is a German product. Best option but not what I'm really after. I suppose if not effective cold, I could leave a blow-lamp on under the sump, but I don't fancy that idea!

 

[Trav]

Quote:
The products are manufactured in two factories, Manchester England and Durban South Africa to [censored] and ISO accreditation

They may have opened a manufacturing facility in Germany i don't know but the stuff i have here has made in the UK.
I had the same train of thought only i was thinking a stick on pad type heater, that should get it warm enough.

http://www.amazon.com/Kats-24250-Watt-Universal-Heater/dp/B000I8XDFS/ref=pd_sim_auto_7

Edit: The censor censored the word B.S. out.

 

[ordinarybloke]

A heater pad? Well, it will work, but a bit pricey unless you live in Alaska - I'll keep plugging at this

 

[Trav]

If you find something better please post it, there are parts cleaners out there that dissolve almost anything cold but i wouldn't want them rolling around in engine.