Oil for old sailboat transmission

[Michael_Smith]

Hi all --

I recently acquired an old (1983) Pearson 303 sailboat, with a 13HP Yanmar 2GMF diesel
engine (if that means anything to anybody). The engine has a Kanzaki KM2A gearbox,
and it is beginning to be rather reluctant to shift. This can get awkward when you're
trying to get onto your mooring in a four-knot current.

All the boat dudes tell me I should change the gearbox oil, at the very least, which
seems sensible and harmless.

The gearbox nameplate says use SAE 20/30 HD oil.

Now I live in Manhattan, where automotive supply stores are not abundant. I have
called up a couple, and though they have SAE 30 oil, they don't have the HD flavor.
When I mention that it's a diesel engine, they all tell me that I need the HD.

I'm desperately ignorant about this sort of thing. Can somebody enlighten me? What's
the difference between HD and non-HD? What sort of disaster would I be courting if I
used non-HD oil in this gearbox?

Thanks in advance!

 

[79sunrunner]

Basically HD has a stronger additive package that can take more a beating than what you'll need in a car. This is good for high temperature applications and diesel motors. HD oils help clean the extra soot diesels leave in their oil pan too. Light and multi-vis HD oils are rarely found, except for 15w/40. The reason for straight 20/30 weight oils is the reduce the chance of severe VII breakdown over time, thinning out the operating temperature viscosity. However since 1983, the oil technology has evolved.

I'm sure you are about to get Rotella T recommendations, but HD 30 is available on Amazon if that's what you seek.

Happy sailing
Travis

 

[79sunrunner]

And a warm welcome to the forum!!!!

 

[bvance554]

I can't see any reason why you would need an HD oil in your gearbox. I think any 20-30 wt oil would suffice. Not sure it will cure your shifting problem, but maybe its really old amd that is why your boat buddies suggested it. It could get contaminaed with water and gum up. But again, its a simple gearbox. Just use the weight reccomended and don't get caught up in oil minutia.

 

[roadrunner1]

The reason for the 30 wt. HD spec for your reverse gear is;

1) the way your gears are cut in the transmission, don't use a multi-grade lube here. It will destroy the viscosity improvers in no time.

2) Its the same viscosity called for in the engine, to simplify things for the owner.
You don't need to run a straight 30 wt. in the engine, but where you're located it won't hurt a thing.

 

[UG_Passat]

I used to have a sailboat on the hudson... at either Weehawken or Haverstraw (depending on the year).

I would drive up to Haverstraw Marina as their shop is extremely helpful, especially since I had an extremely old Bayliner Bucaneer 30' with an old Volvo-Penta diesel engine.

THere's Shell Rotella T1, and you can get it in the straight 30 weight.

http://www.shell.com/rotella/products/t1.html

 

[Rand]

you are supposed to use engine oil in the gearbox.?

interesting.

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: Rand
you are supposed to use engine oil in the gearbox.?

interesting.


For a sailboat, it's relatively simple. You have a forward gear and a reverse gear. That's it and you're not moving fast

Using the motor/gearbox is primarily for docking/traveling through the no-wake zone and when the wind is so low, you can't get power from the sails to overcome the current.

 

[Ken2]

An example of the oil that will work for you is Chevron Delo 100 SAE 30. Try a boat supply store or auto parts store that sells to construction equipment owners or truck owners--a NAPA auto parts store outside of the city or in the industrial are of the city is one example. There are other brands of diesel engine 30 wt oil that will work fine; the Delo is just an example.

Motor oils in boat gearboxes is common. Many work boats with old Detroit 2 stroke engines used the same 40 wt engine oil in the gearbox and the engine.

 

[Michael_Smith]

Thanks to all for the helpful info!

 

[Michael_Smith]

Haverstraw marina is a great idea. I've never kept a boat there, but I've stopped there and refueled there several times. Very well-run place, to all appearances. Thanks!

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: Michael_Smith
Haverstraw marina is a great idea. I've never kept a boat there, but I've stopped there and refueled there several times. Very well-run place, to all appearances. Thanks!


for the winter, always used Haverstraw marina to dry-dock the boat.

 

[bvance554]

Originally Posted By: Rand
you are supposed to use engine oil in the gearbox.?

interesting.


Not really. I had an Isuzu pickup truck that used 5w-30 and there are many other many gearboxes that do.

 

[ac_tc]

STOU or UTF..
75w-90 GL4..
MTF..
ATF+4 or redline ATF C...
HDEO has proven its ability to withstand gears in motorcycles for years...

 

[Ducman]

If you will allow a retired Marine Engineer to respond.
Ken2 and UG_Passat are on the right track and they give good advise there.

Your boat is a displacement hull which can typically place a high demand on the engine/gearbox as hull speed increases.
A Heavy Duty lube is virtually essential. Right.

Where you are located I believe an SAE 20 Mono grade will be most suitable, however the SAE 30 Mono grade will be fine and more common.

You will be limited in choices these days, and you will need to be prepared to have to purchase the oil in a 20 litre drum, as these types of things aren't really mainstream.

Your oil specification/requirements are very basic.
SAE 20/30 Mono grade (mineral) motor oil is indeed the original spec for use in both
your engine and marine reversing gearbox, and should be available to you through your local Yanmar distributor. Try giving them a call. I'm sure they will either have a recommendation, or can supply you with the right stuff.
It is highly recommended to not go with a multi grade alternative in the gearbox stick with a Mono grade. You will be better served all round.

I did a quick search of the Penrite website here in Australia, and it came up with the right stuff in a SAE 30 Mono grade mineral oil that's stated to be suitable for pre 1983 Japanese 4 stroke engines and certain Komatsu and Allison gearboxes.

Castrol is usually the most readily available brand in that type of thing globally, and is often the first port of call. (no pun intended)

If you're really stuck for getting your hands on SAE 30 Mono grade motor oil for the gearbox, the modern day equivalent product to an SAE 30 Mono grade motor oil would be an 80w GL4 gear oil designed for car transmissions.
A 75w GL4 may be closer to a SAE 20 Mono grade motor oil.
Both of these should be available in smaller quantities.
It could be argued to be even better modern day alternative to a straight SAE 30 Mono grade if it's a GL4 spec.
Just make sure it's not a GL5 gear oil(though most unlikely), because a GL5 may potentially attack any Bronze/Brass bushes or thrusts at elevated temps.
GL4 gear oil is going to be better for your gearbox/application under any circumstances.
Also look at Amsoil CTJ which is a SAE 30 synthetic transmission fluid.

If you find yourself stuck, the following synthetics will work for your Engine oil. A good old fashioned 15w-40 grade HD diesel oil may possibly work as a substitute. Amsoil makes a good one in their AME.
Alternately their HHD in 5w-30 would offer similar performance to a SAE 20 Mono grade.
Also their ACD in 10w-30/SAE 30 will be a close match for the thicker oil.
However being top quality synthetics, they may be a bit overkill for a 13 HP engine.

Hope this helps for a point of reference.

 

[Michael_Smith]

Most informative, thanks!

I really hope, however, that I don't have to buy a 20 L drum of motor oil, since I live in a Manhattan apartment!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: bvance554
I can't see any reason why you would need an HD oil in your gearbox. I think any 20-30 wt oil would suffice.

I would suggest you are quite right in this regard. Given vintage of the thing, just about every 30 grade at the time was "dual rated," and any current 30 grade would have the appropriate diesel spec relevant to the time, if it one could officially get such a license today in the first place.

@Michael_Smith: Ducman is right. You may have a little bit of trouble finding a monograde in a container of a sensible size. That being said, it won't be impossible. You'll likely have to do some running around. Up here, Castrol insists upon having GTX in every conceivable grade just about everywhere it's sold, so a monograde 30 is easy to get in a litre bottle here. A parts shop or a lubricant distributor might give you more options than something like Walmart.

 

[hattaresguy]

Any straight 30 is fine, I use none detergent in my Twin Disc.

Is the shift linkage adjusted properly? Those little gear boxes are pretty durable, they don't fail to often.

 

[Ducman]

Originally Posted By: Michael_Smith
Most informative, thanks!

I really hope, however, that I don't have to buy a 20 L drum of motor oil, since I live in a Manhattan apartment!


Yep, I thought so.

That's why I gave you the alternative 80w/75w gear oil specs that are available these days for car transmissions. They may be available in 1 liter and 5 liter quantities.

Still working on a yearly oil change interval for both engine and gearbox, that 20 liter drum (which will be economical) will last you for probably 4 complete oil changes/5 years.
It could make a great coffee table stand in your living room with a nice thick piece of round glass on the top. It would be an interesting talking point for a grotty yachty;-)

I did a bit of a search after my last post, and it looks like Castrol have an SAE 30 HD oil available in the US that's actually called HD 30. Looking at the picture it's available in smaller amounts (maybe .6 - 1 liter)

It's available from Castrol in the UK called "Tection" MONO grade in SAE 20 and SAE 30, but no good to you in the US of course. Just saying it's out there.

Don't forget the great suggestions from Ken2 and UG_Passat.


Further, I will say this for the benefit of the uninitiated.
Do try to keep with the SAE 20 or 30 HD Mono grade oil for your application wherever possible.
The main reason for this is that ambient engine room/engine box temps can tend to rise in the largely enclosed and typically small machinery spaces found in boats. You can feel the heat generated in the engine box if you just open the lid.
This extra heat that's generated via the exhaust is sucked straight into the engine, which will elevate combustion temps and so on. Especially common with the high speed diesels (like your Yanmar). And don't forget the high loads from pushing your displacement hull form with that little engine.
This can place higher than normal demands upon the oil in the engine and gearbox because there's no fresh air being continually circulated (higher ambient temps).
I'm not talking about a potential thermal runaway condition, but you need to be mindful/respectful.
Trust me, this is my field of expertise ;-)

Cheers and good luck in your quest.