BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: pscholte

Understand. With the prices of some boutique oils and a large oil sump that rapid depreciation just might eventually make the oil the most expensive part of the car! :)



The change interval is 15,000 miles, so it's not exactly like they want you to shell out $200 every 6 months. Plus the first 3 changes are on BMW's dime.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: dparm
We've discussed the OP's question tons of times. It was done, in part, to remedy oil consumption and to provide maximum protection for the extreme uses (high-speed runs, racing).

Modern 5w40s are proving to be just as capable, hence the move away from TWS.

Right.

Also the FF on M series engines for which the 10W-60 grade is still specified is only a 30wt oil so for normal use the engine doesn't actually require anything heavier.
For street use a 0W/5W-40 is all you need and even for occasional track use if you oil temp's are kept under control. It is only under some pretty extreme racing conditions where oil temp's may approach 300F. Most owners rarely see oil temp's even exceed 212F.



I'll have mine on track next weekend and will report back on your oil temp speculation.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
The change interval is 15,000 miles,

BTW, they've dialed it down to 10,000 miles starting with 2014 model year. But yeah, the cost of the oil is really non significant in the grand scheme of things. I'm sure pscholte was just joking about this.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: dparm
The change interval is 15,000 miles,

BTW, they've dialed it down to 10,000 miles starting with 2014 model year. But yeah, the cost of the oil is really non significant in the grand scheme of things. I'm sure pscholte was just joking about this.


pscholte was...you have been exposed to my sense of humor longer than the others...be sure to let me know if it has had any deleterious effects on you. :)

PS. I told Caterham I thought I had been hacked by the Elves as their way of getting back at me for straying away from Castrol. Now I am sure of it. Sometimes when I try to select Forum List it takes me to the Castrol Zone. Downright scary stuff.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
BTW, they've dialed it down to 10,000 miles starting with 2014 model year.

Probably because the engine lineup is completely different as of MY2014.

...I'd have ended that with a smiley, but in this case "different" involves the death of all naturally aspirated engines.
frown.gif
 
Originally Posted By: stchman
In a thread right below this one, BMW says you can use 10W60 or 5W30 as long as it's BMW oil or Castrol Edge.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Owner/SyntheticEngineOils.aspx

Is Castrol Edge the ultimate oil or is BMW just in bed with Castrol?

Did you read my big post earlier in the thread?

Castrol and BMW collaborate. Castrol designs oils specifically for BMW, and BMW designs its engines with those oils.
 
Someone can ask BMW why they couldn't get it done with a 5W-40 or 0W-40 when Porsche and Ferrari do with their high-revving engines. But CATERHAM is wrong to go around telling people to use a viscosity that's substantially lower than what the engine manufacturer has specified. In addition to temperature, speed, load, composite surface roughness matter as well. You don't have all of that, BMW does. As oil is an engine component, everything else is designed with it as the specification. Believe it or not, there's more to tribology than viscosity index = good and zddp = good. Stick to what they recommend, certainly don't go two grades lower.

The more I've read on this subject, the more I've come to respect engine manufacturerss oil specifications for their respective engines. They do screw up now and again, but they're still the ones that produced the engine and have far more data and expertise than anyone here. It's fine being conservative, eg. shortening oci's if you're not comfortable, but I certainly wouldn't be aggressive in going below what they call for in important areas like viscosity.

Maybe it's a typo, but interestingly on the website BMW doesn't specify the standard oil for the new M cars, but the low-SAPS diesel Castrol Edge Professional OE.
 
Originally Posted By: stchman
And a ZR1 won't be driven hard?


I would say about 95% of them are owned by old people that just putz them around town and bought a ZR1 because it was the most expensive Vette the dealer had.
 
Originally Posted By: pscholte
be sure to let me know if it has had any deleterious effects on you. :)

Besides an occasional beverage spill on the monitor or keyboard, I'm doing just fine, thank you.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: stchman
In a thread right below this one, BMW says you can use 10W60 or 5W30 as long as it's BMW oil or Castrol Edge.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Owner/SyntheticEngineOils.aspx

Is Castrol Edge the ultimate oil or is BMW just in bed with Castrol?


So now 5W-30 is OK now in my S54 engine? It will save my new set of Rod Bearings?? TWS didn't keep my first set from failing!
frown.gif
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ammolab
Originally Posted By: stchman
In a thread right below this one, BMW says you can use 10W60 or 5W30 as long as it's BMW oil or Castrol Edge.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Owner/SyntheticEngineOils.aspx

Is Castrol Edge the ultimate oil or is BMW just in bed with Castrol?


So now 5W-30 is OK now in my S54 engine? It will save my new set of Rod Bearings?? TWS didn't keep my first set from failing!
frown.gif



I neither agree or disagree with their recommendations. I am simply passing information.
 
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
Someone can ask BMW why they couldn't get it done with a 5W-40 or 0W-40 when Porsche and Ferrari do with their high-revving engines. But CATERHAM is wrong to go around telling people to use a viscosity that's substantially lower than what the engine manufacturer has specified. In addition to temperature, speed, load, composite surface roughness matter as well. You don't have all of that, BMW does. As oil is an engine component, everything else is designed with it as the specification. Believe it or not, there's more to tribology than viscosity index = good and zddp = good. Stick to what they recommend, certainly don't go two grades lower.

The more I've read on this subject, the more I've come to respect engine manufacturerss oil specifications for their respective engines. They do screw up now and again, but they're still the ones that produced the engine and have far more data and expertise than anyone here. It's fine being conservative, eg. shortening oci's if you're not comfortable, but I certainly wouldn't be aggressive in going below what they call for in important areas like viscosity.

And I think you should stick to what the manufacturer recommends.
My recommendations are always qualified and directed to those who first raise the question and are interested in thinking for themselves and less in dogma.
The oil grade one uses ultimately is not important, it's operational viscosity that matters. It is much more precise and safer to heed the test oil pressure spec's of a manufacturer in conjunction with oil temp's in determining how much of a viscosity safety margin one has for the way they operate their car. Not everyone is into that but some are.
Even with just an oil temp' gauge certain very safe assumptions can still be made. In the case of the M3 one is, if you're never seeing oil temp's above 212F then yes a premium 0W/5W-40 will more than meet the engines viscosity requirements.
And as far as being two grades lighter than spec', remember the FF is 3 grades lighter.
 
The LL-01 list is quite small compared to the VW 502/505 list, especially for the US. Basically just M1 0w40, GC, SynPower, and PU Euro.

I will be using M1 0w40 when my M3 is due for an oil change in about 1000 miles (I'm doing 7500 mile changes).
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
Someone can ask BMW why they couldn't get it done with a 5W-40 or 0W-40 when Porsche and Ferrari do with their high-revving engines. But CATERHAM is wrong to go around telling people to use a viscosity that's substantially lower than what the engine manufacturer has specified. In addition to temperature, speed, load, composite surface roughness matter as well. You don't have all of that, BMW does. As oil is an engine component, everything else is designed with it as the specification. Believe it or not, there's more to tribology than viscosity index = good and zddp = good. Stick to what they recommend, certainly don't go two grades lower.

The more I've read on this subject, the more I've come to respect engine manufacturerss oil specifications for their respective engines. They do screw up now and again, but they're still the ones that produced the engine and have far more data and expertise than anyone here. It's fine being conservative, eg. shortening oci's if you're not comfortable, but I certainly wouldn't be aggressive in going below what they call for in important areas like viscosity.

And I think you should stick to what the manufacturer recommends.
My recommendations are always qualified and directed to those who first raise the question and are interested in thinking for themselves and less in dogma.
The oil grade one uses ultimately is not important, it's operational viscosity that matters. It is much more precise and safer to heed the test oil pressure spec's of a manufacturer in conjunction with oil temp's in determining how much of a viscosity safety margin one has for the way they operate their car. Not everyone is into that but some are.
Even with just an oil temp' gauge certain very safe assumptions can still be made. In the case of the M3 one is, if you're never seeing oil temp's above 212F then yes a premium 0W/5W-40 will more than meet the engines viscosity requirements.
And as far as being two grades lighter than spec', remember the FF is 3 grades lighter.




Doh, all those equations solved in models in papers published by OEM engine and lubricant manufacturers.got pwned by BITOG's CATERHAM. They forgot the oil pressure gauge!
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
The LL-01 list is quite small compared to the VW 502/505 list, especially for the US. Basically just M1 0w40, GC, SynPower, and PU Euro.

There is also Castrol 0w-40 and Total Quartz 9000 5w-40. I think Lubro Moly sold at NAPA also has something that meets LL-01 in their lineup.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
BTW, they've dialed it down to 10,000 miles starting with 2014 model year.

Probably because the engine lineup is completely different as of MY2014.

...I'd have ended that with a smiley, but in this case "different" involves the death of all naturally aspirated engines.
frown.gif



Doesn't apply to everyone but if you lived at 6-7000 feet and drove at even higher altitudes, you would wish, as I do, that every model of every marque had a turbo or supercharger. You lose SO MUCH HP.
 
Originally Posted By: ammolab
Originally Posted By: stchman
In a thread right below this one, BMW says you can use 10W60 or 5W30 as long as it's BMW oil or Castrol Edge.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Owner/SyntheticEngineOils.aspx

Is Castrol Edge the ultimate oil or is BMW just in bed with Castrol?


So now 5W-30 is OK now in my S54 engine? It will save my new set of Rod Bearings?? TWS didn't keep my first set from failing!
frown.gif



Rod Bearings is great in concert...that gravelly voice of his is a winner!
 
Sometimes reading these threads I feel like I should either put on a referee's jersey or give some participants a binky
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top