BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!!

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Was talking to a friend the other night and he was talking about his buddy's BMW M5 that takes this "special" oil. After some reading, it turns out BMW M-cars take a 10W60 engine oil.

10W60 is a really odd viscosity. It looks like oil of that viscosity costs about $15 a quart.

My thing is WHY? Why such an odd viscosity? The BMW M5 has 560HP and the Cadillac CTS-V has 556HP. The difference is the Cadillac can use normal Mobil 1 5W30 while the BMW has to have 10W60.

Heck even the ZR1 with its 638HP engine uses Mobil 1 5W30.

I just don't understand why BMW wanted to do this. Is it a European thing? Is 10W60 like 5W30 is here in the US?
 
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
They have done it since the early 00's IIRC. I was told they were having issues with engine failures and the 10W60 cured it.


So the "Ultimate Driving Machine" was having engine failures? Not very ultimate.
 
It's an Ultimate Driving Machine. They never claimed it to be an Ultimate Reliability Machine.
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
They have done it since the early 00's IIRC. I was told they were having issues with engine failures and the 10W60 cured it.


So the "Ultimate Driving Machine" was having engine failures? Not very ultimate.


The M cars tend to be driven very hard. FWIW Ford uses 5W50 in the GT500's, BOSS302s, and Track Pack Mustang GTs. Corvette Racing uses 0W50 in their C6R's.
 
10-60 is not what you Can call normal here in Europe. I believe bmw is the only maker who specs it.

bmw m engines often rev higher then the American pushrod engines. Maybe it has something to do with it?

10-60 is however often used in tuning communities.

I think 5-30 and 5-40 is most used in Europe.
 
Originally Posted By: shDK
10-60 is not what you Can call normal here in Europe. I believe bmw is the only maker who specs it.



Audi specs it for the R8 GT.

I wouldn't be suprised if Lambo uses it also
 
Castrol and BMW had established a partnership around 2000, when the E46 M3 was introduced. One of the things Castrol brought to the partnership was their 10w-60 oil, which had been developed in racing. They were planning to cooperate with BMW to adapt that oil for M cars.

Then, M3s started having rod bearing issues, so BMW introduced a number of changes to the engine. That's when they took the opportunity to switch from BMW's 5w-30 synthetic (also custom-made by Castrol) to the new 10w-60 oil.

By that time, Castrol and BMW had developed the 10w-60 into a specialty product; Castrol tweaked it for BMW, and BMW designed its M engines with that oil in mind. That's why later M cars with high-revving (>8,000 RPM) engines started requiring the 10w-60 as well.

More recently, BMW's M cars stopped coming with high-revving naturally aspirated engines, and gradually switched to lower-revving turbocharged engines. With that change, they switched back to the 5w-30.

As for why any BMW engines ever used the 10w-60, oil temperatures are probably the main reason. BMW M cars are designed to run on race tracks all day, even in the hottest temperatures. In those conditions, oil temps on the high-RPM engines can exceed 300º F. It's crucially important to have an oil that doesn't thin out too much at those temps. Also, as I said earlier, the specific 10w-60 that BMW uses is a custom-made product, so it has (supposedly) the perfect blend of base stocks and additives for the cars that spec it.
 
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
They have done it since the early 00's IIRC. I was told they were having issues with engine failures and the 10W60 cured it.


So the "Ultimate Driving Machine" was having engine failures? Not very ultimate.


The M cars tend to be driven very hard. FWIW Ford uses 5W50 in the GT500's, BOSS302s, and Track Pack Mustang GTs. Corvette Racing uses 0W50 in their C6R's.


And a ZR1 won't be driven hard?
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
It's an Ultimate Driving Machine. They never claimed it to be an Ultimate Reliability Machine.
lol.gif



Love the sense of humor, QP. I am sure you love your Bimmer but you can take the comments in stride. Wish more could. My Audi A6 twin turbo was FABULOUS to drive but it also was not a stranger to the Audi service bays.
 
Last edited:
Interestingly enough, I'm looking at the US owner's manual of a 2013 M5, and read the following:

Quote:
Viscosity grades for engine oils
When selecting an engine oil, ensure that the engine oil belongs to the viscosity grade SAE 0W-30 or SAE 0W-40 or malfunctions or engine damage may occur.
Alternatively, also engine oils with viscosity grades SAE 5W-30 or SAE 5W-40 may be used
The engine oil quality is critical for the life of the
engine.
Some types of oils in some cases are not available in all countries.

Approved oil types
Specification
ACEA A3/B4
API SK/CF or superior grade specification


Strangely no mention of LL-01 spec. And API SK? What is that? There never was such a thing.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Interestingly enough, I'm looking at the US owner's manual of a 2013 M5, and read the following:

Quote:
Viscosity grades for engine oils
When selecting an engine oil, ensure that
the engine oil belongs to the viscosity grade
SAE 0W-30 or SAE 0W-40 or malfunctions or
engine damage may occur.
Alternatively, also engine oils with viscosity
grades SAE 5W-30 or SAE 5W-40 may be
used.◀
The engine oil quality is critical for the life of the
engine.
Some types of oils in some cases are not avail‐
able in all countries.
Approved oil types
Specification
ACEA A3/B4
API SK/CF or superior grade specification


Strangely no mention of LL-01 spec. And API SK? What is that? There never was such a thing.
smile.gif




You MUST use 0W-30 or -40 or engine damage may occur. You MUST do this...unless of course you want to use 5w-30 or -40. SK oil comes from SKandinavia (sic)
 
Last edited:
We've discussed the OP's question tons of times. It was done, in part, to remedy oil consumption and to provide maximum protection for the extreme uses (high-speed runs, racing).

Modern 5w40s are proving to be just as capable, hence the move away from TWS.
 
Originally Posted By: pscholte
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
It's an Ultimate Driving Machine. They never claimed it to be an Ultimate Reliability Machine.
lol.gif



Love the sense of humor, QP. I am sure you love your Bimmer but you can take the comments in stride. Wish more could. My Audi A6 twin turbo was FABULOUS to drive but it also was not a stranger to the Audi service bays.

Ha!

And to be honest, my 530i isn't exactly an Ultimate Driving Machine either. An M car may be.

Alas, I see no reason to get rid of it and I'm certainly not itching to deplete my bank account for a quickly depreciating asset that's going to sit in the garage most of the time because I don't really drive much. And if I want some fun, I just use my bike.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: pscholte
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
It's an Ultimate Driving Machine. They never claimed it to be an Ultimate Reliability Machine.
lol.gif



Love the sense of humor, QP. I am sure you love your Bimmer but you can take the comments in stride. Wish more could. My Audi A6 twin turbo was FABULOUS to drive but it also was not a stranger to the Audi service bays.

Ha!

And to be honest, my 530i isn't exactly an Ultimate Driving Machine either. An M car may be.

Alas, I see no reason to get rid of it and I'm certainly not itching to deplete my bank account for a quickly depreciating asset that's going to sit in the garage most of the time because I don't really drive much. And if I want some fun, I just use my bike.




Understand. With the prices of some boutique oils and a large oil sump that rapid depreciation just might eventually make the oil the most expensive part of the car! :)
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Maybe that's a typo on API SJ?



The older "Castrol TWS" was API SJ. The new "Castrol Edge Professional TWS" is API SN.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
We've discussed the OP's question tons of times. It was done, in part, to remedy oil consumption and to provide maximum protection for the extreme uses (high-speed runs, racing).

Modern 5w40s are proving to be just as capable, hence the move away from TWS.

Right.

Also the FF on M series engines for which the 10W-60 grade is still specified is only a 30wt oil so for normal use the engine doesn't actually require anything heavier.
For street use a 0W/5W-40 is all you need and even for occasional track use if you oil temp's are kept under control. It is only under some pretty extreme racing conditions where oil temp's may approach 300F. Most owners rarely see oil temp's even exceed 212F.
 
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