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#3143820 - 10/03/13 01:07 PM BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!!
stchman Offline


Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 517
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Was talking to a friend the other night and he was talking about his buddy's BMW M5 that takes this "special" oil. After some reading, it turns out BMW M-cars take a 10W60 engine oil.

10W60 is a really odd viscosity. It looks like oil of that viscosity costs about $15 a quart.

My thing is WHY? Why such an odd viscosity? The BMW M5 has 560HP and the Cadillac CTS-V has 556HP. The difference is the Cadillac can use normal Mobil 1 5W30 while the BMW has to have 10W60.

Heck even the ZR1 with its 638HP engine uses Mobil 1 5W30.

I just don't understand why BMW wanted to do this. Is it a European thing? Is 10W60 like 5W30 is here in the US?
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#3143830 - 10/03/13 01:13 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: stchman]
bdcardinal Offline


Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 6602
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
They have done it since the early 00's IIRC. I was told they were having issues with engine failures and the 10W60 cured it.
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#3143833 - 10/03/13 01:17 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: bdcardinal]
stchman Offline


Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 517
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
They have done it since the early 00's IIRC. I was told they were having issues with engine failures and the 10W60 cured it.


So the "Ultimate Driving Machine" was having engine failures? Not very ultimate.
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#3143838 - 10/03/13 01:19 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: stchman]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25907
Loc: Michigan
It's an Ultimate Driving Machine. They never claimed it to be an Ultimate Reliability Machine. LOL
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#3143840 - 10/03/13 01:20 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: stchman]
bdcardinal Offline


Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 6602
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
They have done it since the early 00's IIRC. I was told they were having issues with engine failures and the 10W60 cured it.


So the "Ultimate Driving Machine" was having engine failures? Not very ultimate.


The M cars tend to be driven very hard. FWIW Ford uses 5W50 in the GT500's, BOSS302s, and Track Pack Mustang GTs. Corvette Racing uses 0W50 in their C6R's.
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#3143846 - 10/03/13 01:23 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: stchman]
shDK Offline


Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 545
Loc: Denmark
10-60 is not what you Can call normal here in Europe. I believe bmw is the only maker who specs it.

bmw m engines often rev higher then the American pushrod engines. Maybe it has something to do with it?

10-60 is however often used in tuning communities.

I think 5-30 and 5-40 is most used in Europe.

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#3143901 - 10/03/13 02:07 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: shDK]
UG_Passat Offline


Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 1060
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: shDK
10-60 is not what you Can call normal here in Europe. I believe bmw is the only maker who specs it.



Audi specs it for the R8 GT.

I wouldn't be suprised if Lambo uses it also

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#3143902 - 10/03/13 02:07 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: stchman]
bepperb Offline


Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 4746
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
10-60 is clearly twice as good as 5-30. One more thing the Germans are way ahead of us on.


Edited by bepperb (10/03/13 02:07 PM)
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#3143904 - 10/03/13 02:09 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: stchman]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 9215
Loc: PA
Castrol and BMW had established a partnership around 2000, when the E46 M3 was introduced. One of the things Castrol brought to the partnership was their 10w-60 oil, which had been developed in racing. They were planning to cooperate with BMW to adapt that oil for M cars.

Then, M3s started having rod bearing issues, so BMW introduced a number of changes to the engine. That's when they took the opportunity to switch from BMW's 5w-30 synthetic (also custom-made by Castrol) to the new 10w-60 oil.

By that time, Castrol and BMW had developed the 10w-60 into a specialty product; Castrol tweaked it for BMW, and BMW designed its M engines with that oil in mind. That's why later M cars with high-revving (>8,000 RPM) engines started requiring the 10w-60 as well.

More recently, BMW's M cars stopped coming with high-revving naturally aspirated engines, and gradually switched to lower-revving turbocharged engines. With that change, they switched back to the 5w-30.

As for why any BMW engines ever used the 10w-60, oil temperatures are probably the main reason. BMW M cars are designed to run on race tracks all day, even in the hottest temperatures. In those conditions, oil temps on the high-RPM engines can exceed 300º F. It's crucially important to have an oil that doesn't thin out too much at those temps. Also, as I said earlier, the specific 10w-60 that BMW uses is a custom-made product, so it has (supposedly) the perfect blend of base stocks and additives for the cars that spec it.
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#3143905 - 10/03/13 02:10 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: bdcardinal]
stchman Offline


Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 517
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
They have done it since the early 00's IIRC. I was told they were having issues with engine failures and the 10W60 cured it.


So the "Ultimate Driving Machine" was having engine failures? Not very ultimate.


The M cars tend to be driven very hard. FWIW Ford uses 5W50 in the GT500's, BOSS302s, and Track Pack Mustang GTs. Corvette Racing uses 0W50 in their C6R's.


And a ZR1 won't be driven hard?
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#3143907 - 10/03/13 02:11 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: Quattro Pete]
pscholte Offline


Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 5180
Loc: Der Schwarzwaldwesten
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
It's an Ultimate Driving Machine. They never claimed it to be an Ultimate Reliability Machine. LOL


Love the sense of humor, QP. I am sure you love your Bimmer but you can take the comments in stride. Wish more could. My Audi A6 twin turbo was FABULOUS to drive but it also was not a stranger to the Audi service bays.


Edited by pscholte (10/03/13 02:13 PM)
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#3143908 - 10/03/13 02:11 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: stchman]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 9215
Loc: PA
A ZR1 doesn't have piston speeds higher than those of a Formula 1 car.
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#3143922 - 10/03/13 02:18 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: stchman]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25907
Loc: Michigan
Interestingly enough, I'm looking at the US owner's manual of a 2013 M5, and read the following:

Quote:
Viscosity grades for engine oils
When selecting an engine oil, ensure that the engine oil belongs to the viscosity grade SAE 0W-30 or SAE 0W-40 or malfunctions or engine damage may occur.
Alternatively, also engine oils with viscosity grades SAE 5W-30 or SAE 5W-40 may be used
The engine oil quality is critical for the life of the
engine.
Some types of oils in some cases are not available in all countries.

Approved oil types
Specification
ACEA A3/B4
API SK/CF or superior grade specification


Strangely no mention of LL-01 spec. And API SK? What is that? There never was such a thing. smile

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#3143930 - 10/03/13 02:22 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: Quattro Pete]
pscholte Offline


Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 5180
Loc: Der Schwarzwaldwesten
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Interestingly enough, I'm looking at the US owner's manual of a 2013 M5, and read the following:

Quote:
Viscosity grades for engine oils
When selecting an engine oil, ensure that
the engine oil belongs to the viscosity grade
SAE 0W-30 or SAE 0W-40 or malfunctions or
engine damage may occur.
Alternatively, also engine oils with viscosity
grades SAE 5W-30 or SAE 5W-40 may be
used.◀
The engine oil quality is critical for the life of the
engine.
Some types of oils in some cases are not avail‐
able in all countries.
Approved oil types
Specification
ACEA A3/B4
API SK/CF or superior grade specification


Strangely no mention of LL-01 spec. And API SK? What is that? There never was such a thing. smile



You MUST use 0W-30 or -40 or engine damage may occur. You MUST do this...unless of course you want to use 5w-30 or -40. SK oil comes from SKandinavia (sic)


Edited by pscholte (10/03/13 02:23 PM)
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#3143931 - 10/03/13 02:22 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: Quattro Pete]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 9215
Loc: PA
Maybe that's a typo on API SJ?
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