Would it be a good idea to change the oil more often while running a high flow air filter?
High flow air filters let more dirt into the engine right?
High flow air filters let more dirt into the engine right?
Change oil more often with high flow air filter?
- Thread starter Merkava_4
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gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
which filter and why? Most times, high flow air filters alone provide zero benefit, IMO.
Fram AirHog and the reason I run it is because I get brisker acceleration with it on.
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
I ran an AEM dry-flow cold-air intake (with a proper tune for AEM-specific MAF scaling on my specific vehicle) and didn't notice any increase in Si.
The boost for the tune was raised a little, and while the car SOUNDED faster, it wasn't by much. This is on a boosted engine, and the entire intake was swapped out.
The boost for the tune was raised a little, and while the car SOUNDED faster, it wasn't by much. This is on a boosted engine, and the entire intake was swapped out.
IIRC air filters filter better as they better as they get older (to a point).
If you are concerned about filtration, is "brisk" that important?
If you are concerned about filtration, is "brisk" that important?
Originally Posted By: tom slick
If you are concerned about filtration, is "brisk" that important?
I don't wanna suffocate it either. I know what it's like trying
to breath through a respirator with clogged filters.
If you are concerned about filtration, is "brisk" that important?
I don't wanna suffocate it either. I know what it's like trying
to breath through a respirator with clogged filters.
I use a higher flow reusable filter. I think it filters fine. What are ur OCI habits currently? If u change every 5k miles it wont make any difference. Maybe if you are trying to set long over 10k miles intervals it would be best to do a UOA. Im not worried that the engine pulls in more dirt. I bet the difference is minimal. The high flow filter is half the width of the original. I do sense better accel but could be a mind thing..but i dont care..
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
The high flow filter is half the width of the original.
My Fram AirHog element is at least twice as thick as the paper version and the
seal is at least three times as thick. I really like it because that thick seal goes
way back into the air box and it fits the air box better than the paper filter.
The K&N filter for my car is the same exact thickness as the paper filter. It looks
like a purple version of the paper filter. I won't ever be buying a K&N for my car.
The high flow filter is half the width of the original.
My Fram AirHog element is at least twice as thick as the paper version and the
seal is at least three times as thick. I really like it because that thick seal goes
way back into the air box and it fits the air box better than the paper filter.
The K&N filter for my car is the same exact thickness as the paper filter. It looks
like a purple version of the paper filter. I won't ever be buying a K&N for my car.
Only way to find out is to run some UOA's.
A lot depends on specific circumstances of where your car is, and how much dust it ingests.
As far a suffocating an engine, that is the job of the throttle body, not the air filter. The air filter is kinda at the low pressure side of things, unless you are doing formula 1, or auto cross, or something extreme like that.
A lot depends on specific circumstances of where your car is, and how much dust it ingests.
As far a suffocating an engine, that is the job of the throttle body, not the air filter. The air filter is kinda at the low pressure side of things, unless you are doing formula 1, or auto cross, or something extreme like that.
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I used a drop in K&N filter in my Old Explorer and Corolla. Explorer- definitely better acceleration. Started to ping on highway under light load even with premium. Mechanic did a decarbonize with BG products and said not to use the K&N. He showed me the real time readouts of the car with factory and K&N. K&N was causing lean condition that the car couldn't compensate for. Stayed with paper, lost a little oomph, no more ping on regular. Tried the K&N again, back to ping.
Corolla- No difference in power. UOA after install showed large increase in Si where blackstone asked if I put a high flow filter on. Switched back, Si dropped.
Your motor, your call. I'm sticking with the factory versions. IMO less dirt = good thing for longevity.
Corolla- No difference in power. UOA after install showed large increase in Si where blackstone asked if I put a high flow filter on. Switched back, Si dropped.
Your motor, your call. I'm sticking with the factory versions. IMO less dirt = good thing for longevity.
It's pretty hard to clog a paper air filter unless you neglect it. Everything varies by vehicle, but without an restriction gauge your just guessing.
http://www.knfilters.com/filterminder.htm
http://www.filterminder.com/products.asp
I don't want to invest in my old beaters, so i am just going with Purolator PureOne air filters and setting a 30,000 interval for them.
The PureOne filters are very impressive, with the "lightly" wetted media, they should be more efficient than paper filters and flow more than the engine needs.
http://www.knfilters.com/filterminder.htm
http://www.filterminder.com/products.asp
I don't want to invest in my old beaters, so i am just going with Purolator PureOne air filters and setting a 30,000 interval for them.
The PureOne filters are very impressive, with the "lightly" wetted media, they should be more efficient than paper filters and flow more than the engine needs.
Hot Rod magazine did a flow test with different filters. All were 14"x3". All were new, but hardly any difference in flow. 3 were paper type and the K&N. But they did say with out a doubt as the filters got dirtier the K&N would start to shine because of its design.
You can't clog a K&N Filter, that's not the issue. I have heard of K&N filters completely caked in a layer of filth and they still measure near clean capacity, the issue is how much dirt are you letting in your engine. With the K&N you are giving up a lot.
I can see how they might be an advantage if the air filter housing is very difficult to service and leaving it be for extended periods of time is describable, but filtration is important for passenger cars.
I can see how they might be an advantage if the air filter housing is very difficult to service and leaving it be for extended periods of time is describable, but filtration is important for passenger cars.
I run an AEM V2 cold air intake on my Accord. Never had any issue with Si (or Civic Si's haha)
I also race the vehicle on tracks, so it sucks plenty of air
I also race the vehicle on tracks, so it sucks plenty of air
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Not all high flow filters kits are low efficiency. Generally, though, if you want more flow with an efficient media, you have to increase the amount of media as you would with a full CAI vs a drop in. That or go with less efficiency to attain better flow. For the most part, it's either/or as long as you are keeping similar media area.
If you lived in a dusty environment and had a low efficiency filter, it would probably be wise to change the oil more often. In the short term, it might not matter much. If you like to keep your cars for a long period, it would likely matter a lot.
If you want to run long OCIs, you should be especially careful to run a high efficiency filter because the air filter is the open door to oil contamination. The more dirt your air filter catches, the less gets into your oil, the longer the oil lasts in service.
The stuff that ends up in the crankcase is usually too small for the oil filter to get much of (unless you have a very tight bypass filter installed) so contamination levels can rise dramatically. That's why you change the oil.
I have flow and dyno tested a fair number of cars and truck with air filter improvements for my job. Few showed any increases at all with a drop-in, element. They do better with a full system but that is as much the plumbing as it is the filter. Generally, the incremental gains (if any) from a drop-in element do return the extra costs and IMO, do not counter the loss of efficiency.
If you lived in a dusty environment and had a low efficiency filter, it would probably be wise to change the oil more often. In the short term, it might not matter much. If you like to keep your cars for a long period, it would likely matter a lot.
If you want to run long OCIs, you should be especially careful to run a high efficiency filter because the air filter is the open door to oil contamination. The more dirt your air filter catches, the less gets into your oil, the longer the oil lasts in service.
The stuff that ends up in the crankcase is usually too small for the oil filter to get much of (unless you have a very tight bypass filter installed) so contamination levels can rise dramatically. That's why you change the oil.
I have flow and dyno tested a fair number of cars and truck with air filter improvements for my job. Few showed any increases at all with a drop-in, element. They do better with a full system but that is as much the plumbing as it is the filter. Generally, the incremental gains (if any) from a drop-in element do return the extra costs and IMO, do not counter the loss of efficiency.
i'll bite the hypothetical question,
If you think this is letting in more dirt or particles, this isn't affecting your oil. The oil still is good, it's the OIL FILTER you should worry about, needing to catch those extra particles.
So you better get your extended drain, high capacity, super nano-fiber unicorn tear purity oil filter to match your air filter.
There will be Bonus performance if the colors of the filters match up.
If you think this is letting in more dirt or particles, this isn't affecting your oil. The oil still is good, it's the OIL FILTER you should worry about, needing to catch those extra particles.
So you better get your extended drain, high capacity, super nano-fiber unicorn tear purity oil filter to match your air filter.
There will be Bonus performance if the colors of the filters match up.
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Honestly its been proven the paper filters do a better job, but i don't think most people will keep their cars long enough to see the effects of the extra grams of dust let into the engine.
Originally Posted By: raytseng
i'll bite the hypothetical question,
If you think this is letting in more dirt or particles, this isn't affecting your oil. The oil still is good, it's the OIL FILTER you should worry about, needing to catch those extra particles.
It doesn't work that way. Most of what gets into the oil from the intake is small stuff... too small for the oil filter to catch high percentages of (unless you have a high efficiency bypass system). Also, a lot of fines (and the silicon fines are highly abrasive and create more iron wear particles) on the cylinder walls increases the wear , so at some point, you lose a significant amount of your ring sealing, which decreases compression (and engine efficiency) as well as increase the amount of blowby into the crankcase, which further reduces oil life and lubrication quality. Small stuff in the lubricating oil at low levels is not particularly harmful in and of itself (for most engines.. there are exceptions, such as those engines with VVT) but if you have a continual influx of small particles (think of how much air actually runs thru the engine) it can build up to a high level quickly and become harmful, as well as deplete the additives in the oil as it tries to deal with it. Overall, it's better to stop it at the air filter than deal with it when it's in the crankcase.
i'll bite the hypothetical question,
If you think this is letting in more dirt or particles, this isn't affecting your oil. The oil still is good, it's the OIL FILTER you should worry about, needing to catch those extra particles.
It doesn't work that way. Most of what gets into the oil from the intake is small stuff... too small for the oil filter to catch high percentages of (unless you have a high efficiency bypass system). Also, a lot of fines (and the silicon fines are highly abrasive and create more iron wear particles) on the cylinder walls increases the wear , so at some point, you lose a significant amount of your ring sealing, which decreases compression (and engine efficiency) as well as increase the amount of blowby into the crankcase, which further reduces oil life and lubrication quality. Small stuff in the lubricating oil at low levels is not particularly harmful in and of itself (for most engines.. there are exceptions, such as those engines with VVT) but if you have a continual influx of small particles (think of how much air actually runs thru the engine) it can build up to a high level quickly and become harmful, as well as deplete the additives in the oil as it tries to deal with it. Overall, it's better to stop it at the air filter than deal with it when it's in the crankcase.
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