Why Change The Oil At All?
- Thread starter BlueOvalFitter
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The oil that is burning off will be the "lighter" fraction of the blend and would likely concentrate heavier, waxier molecules as you ran the engine without draining. More than additives, viscosity increase would be my main concern - increase in viscosity @100C is easy to test for, and would likely translate to cold-flow testing.
Is there an actual gasket leak to fix, or is oil being burned in the combustion chamber? If the engine is actually burning the oil, switching to thicker, synthetic oil may help.
Is there an actual gasket leak to fix, or is oil being burned in the combustion chamber? If the engine is actually burning the oil, switching to thicker, synthetic oil may help.
Originally Posted By: jake88
The oil that is burning off will be the "lighter" fraction of the blend and would likely concentrate heavier, waxier molecules as you ran the engine without draining. More than additives, viscosity increase would be my main concern - increase in viscosity @100C is easy to test for, and would likely translate to cold-flow testing.
Is there an actual gasket leak to fix, or is oil being burned in the combustion chamber? If the engine is actually burning the oil, switching to thicker, synthetic oil may help.
Before I moved back to La. we replaced the VC gasket and crank seal, which both were leaking. Also, the pcv valve. It puts out the typical blue puff of smoke at startup which tells me the valve seals are bad. It very well could be the oil rings also.
He is currently using ST HM 10W40 but I am going to advise him to try the VML 10W40 and see what that does.
The oil that is burning off will be the "lighter" fraction of the blend and would likely concentrate heavier, waxier molecules as you ran the engine without draining. More than additives, viscosity increase would be my main concern - increase in viscosity @100C is easy to test for, and would likely translate to cold-flow testing.
Is there an actual gasket leak to fix, or is oil being burned in the combustion chamber? If the engine is actually burning the oil, switching to thicker, synthetic oil may help.
Before I moved back to La. we replaced the VC gasket and crank seal, which both were leaking. Also, the pcv valve. It puts out the typical blue puff of smoke at startup which tells me the valve seals are bad. It very well could be the oil rings also.
He is currently using ST HM 10W40 but I am going to advise him to try the VML 10W40 and see what that does.
I think my Saturn falls into the severe burner category
1 qt. every 500 miles since I bought it used. I've always wondered the same thing, never had enough nerve to just top off, mainly due to my concern of the buildup of contaminates.
I just end up changing it when it's 1/2 to 1 quart low. I'm always curious to hear opinions on the subject so thanks for creating the thread.
I just end up changing it when it's 1/2 to 1 quart low. I'm always curious to hear opinions on the subject so thanks for creating the thread.
Originally Posted By: 05LGTLtd
The tinkerer in me likes this approach!
I'd also like to know where the oil is going to some degree before much more action is taken. Stuck rings? Soak and cleanse with your preferred additives, and see if it helps. PCV clogged? Replace PCV valve and hoses if necessary. Clean and re-install if your playing on the super cheap. Valve seals? RMS? well options are limited depending on condition of the rest of the car.
Toyotanation.com in the corolla sub-forum has endless "my corolla burns oil" threads. Some as much as 1qt or more every 300 miles. Mine had 220k on it when it was totaled and got 38+ mpg on the highway. It was worth the try for me to reduce the usage which worked. I didn't know about Kreen and really didn't think about MMO. I did do many gunk idle flushes over the years. Valve seals might be helped by a HM oil but the consumption (if not leaking) is from the rings. Try some inexpensive things to free them up and motor should run a long time. Mine was spec'd for 10w-30 but I think went 5W-30 later in its life. I did also do some M1 for winter to help with the cold starts.
The tinkerer in me likes this approach!
I'd also like to know where the oil is going to some degree before much more action is taken. Stuck rings? Soak and cleanse with your preferred additives, and see if it helps. PCV clogged? Replace PCV valve and hoses if necessary. Clean and re-install if your playing on the super cheap. Valve seals? RMS? well options are limited depending on condition of the rest of the car.
Toyotanation.com in the corolla sub-forum has endless "my corolla burns oil" threads. Some as much as 1qt or more every 300 miles. Mine had 220k on it when it was totaled and got 38+ mpg on the highway. It was worth the try for me to reduce the usage which worked. I didn't know about Kreen and really didn't think about MMO. I did do many gunk idle flushes over the years. Valve seals might be helped by a HM oil but the consumption (if not leaking) is from the rings. Try some inexpensive things to free them up and motor should run a long time. Mine was spec'd for 10w-30 but I think went 5W-30 later in its life. I did also do some M1 for winter to help with the cold starts.
I'd say just top it off and use a good filter,then change the oil once per year.
My '97 Corolla (1.6 liter, 3-speed auto) is getting reading to turn over 325,000 miles, and I cant remember draining the pan any more than a few times every now and then since it started burning so much oil (started around 100,000). The last 4-5 years at least, maybe once a year or so..? Typically I spin a new Purolator filter on every 5-6 months or 5000-7000 miles or whenever, and use a black marker and write the mileage and date on it so I know how long its been there. It uses about a quart every 300-400 miles or thereabouts, depending on how and how much my son drives it (it uses a lot more when driven on the highway, compared to city driving). Never once seen a puff of smoke out of the tailpipe, not even a little, which I find a bit strange at that level of consumption.....
My theory is, given how much we drive it and how much new oil is constantly being thrown into this oil thirsty beast, I cant see there being too much of an issue with contaminates settling out in the pan, likely most if not all of it is constantly churned up, held in suspension, and going out the tailpipe with the rest of the oil. Not trying to state facts here necessarily, just throwing out my own opinion. But I keep seeing people say only the lighter fraction is burning off and leaving the heavier, more viscous oil and its contaminates in the pan. I'm not buying it, at least not in this case. I could be really wrong about that.
It is well known in Toyota circles as to why these engines burn oil. This isnt a situation of excessive heat from racing, or super hot spots in the engine, a bad PCV design, or whatever else. The oil drain holes in these pistons are far too small, after 75,000-100,000 more or less, depending on the owners oil change habits and choice of oil, they get clogged with carbon, the oil control rings then get clogged with carbon, and the oil burning starts. I've seen countless pictures on the various forums, I've talked to too many other Corolla owners, and been inside enough of these engine with my own two hands to see the how and why of this happening. I had one torn down and I was able to remove the top (compression) rings with my fingers, yet the oil control ring I literally could not remove with a chisel, hammer, and 20 minutes of mild-to-moderate profanity.
What would the mechanism be that only the lighter fraction of the oil is getting past these gunked up rings? How and/or why would not contaminates be going with it? This is a significant amount of oil physically leaking (for lack of a better word) past two parts it shouldnt be leaking past, and getting into the combustion chambers and burning with the air/fuel mixture. I'm just not seeing a realistic mechanism that only the lighter parts of the oil are doing this, while the heavier parts, along with whatever moisture, combustion products, sludge, copper, iron, and whatever else, is staying behind and flowing back down to the pan.
At the level of consumption and constant replenishment I'm experiencing with this engine, I'd wager a friendly bet that the oil in this Corolla on most given days is probably cleaner and less contaminated than what most other people have in their daily drivers that see 5000-7000 miles between changes, probably a cleaner pan too. Am I willing to get a UOA on it? Sure, why not. If I'm wrong and I end up letting go of some stubborn/wrong/pedantic belief, then its money well spent. I dont think its going to end up showing much more than a bunch of fairly clean oil, if you want my opinion.
It was July 15th when I drained it last and put a new filter on. According to my records, it has used nine quarts total since then, four of which are still in the engine. Tell me how long you want me to go without draining the pan, and I'll get a UOA. As it stands, the car is being driven about 1500 miles a month, give or take.
(PS..Everything I have stated here is just my own opinion based on my own experiences, not trying to state any of my personally theories as fact or toss criticism at anyone in particular.
)
My theory is, given how much we drive it and how much new oil is constantly being thrown into this oil thirsty beast, I cant see there being too much of an issue with contaminates settling out in the pan, likely most if not all of it is constantly churned up, held in suspension, and going out the tailpipe with the rest of the oil. Not trying to state facts here necessarily, just throwing out my own opinion. But I keep seeing people say only the lighter fraction is burning off and leaving the heavier, more viscous oil and its contaminates in the pan. I'm not buying it, at least not in this case. I could be really wrong about that.
It is well known in Toyota circles as to why these engines burn oil. This isnt a situation of excessive heat from racing, or super hot spots in the engine, a bad PCV design, or whatever else. The oil drain holes in these pistons are far too small, after 75,000-100,000 more or less, depending on the owners oil change habits and choice of oil, they get clogged with carbon, the oil control rings then get clogged with carbon, and the oil burning starts. I've seen countless pictures on the various forums, I've talked to too many other Corolla owners, and been inside enough of these engine with my own two hands to see the how and why of this happening. I had one torn down and I was able to remove the top (compression) rings with my fingers, yet the oil control ring I literally could not remove with a chisel, hammer, and 20 minutes of mild-to-moderate profanity.
What would the mechanism be that only the lighter fraction of the oil is getting past these gunked up rings? How and/or why would not contaminates be going with it? This is a significant amount of oil physically leaking (for lack of a better word) past two parts it shouldnt be leaking past, and getting into the combustion chambers and burning with the air/fuel mixture. I'm just not seeing a realistic mechanism that only the lighter parts of the oil are doing this, while the heavier parts, along with whatever moisture, combustion products, sludge, copper, iron, and whatever else, is staying behind and flowing back down to the pan.
At the level of consumption and constant replenishment I'm experiencing with this engine, I'd wager a friendly bet that the oil in this Corolla on most given days is probably cleaner and less contaminated than what most other people have in their daily drivers that see 5000-7000 miles between changes, probably a cleaner pan too. Am I willing to get a UOA on it? Sure, why not. If I'm wrong and I end up letting go of some stubborn/wrong/pedantic belief, then its money well spent. I dont think its going to end up showing much more than a bunch of fairly clean oil, if you want my opinion.
It was July 15th when I drained it last and put a new filter on. According to my records, it has used nine quarts total since then, four of which are still in the engine. Tell me how long you want me to go without draining the pan, and I'll get a UOA. As it stands, the car is being driven about 1500 miles a month, give or take.
(PS..Everything I have stated here is just my own opinion based on my own experiences, not trying to state any of my personally theories as fact or toss criticism at anyone in particular.
Originally Posted By: TomYoung
I would be interested in the overall condition and your intentions for this vehicle. While it may have consumed less oil in the past, it is certainly not consuming an undue amount now. This suggests that the engine has loosened up, has some wear, but still has a long way to go.
The problem with only adding oil is that the oil that is burnt off does not take contaminants with it. In fact, they concentrate. This motor is known to be prone to sludge.
My opinion is that vehicles should be maintained properly throughout their lives for the simple reason that you don't know how long that life would be. A few of the posts are looking for you to stop changing oil and essentially "see what happens". You could do that and squander 100k of usable life remainining.
I would go to a 5 or 10 40 high mileage Dino oil, bought on sale and change to ab7500 to 10000 oci.. That is the grown-up solution.
So the engine is a distillery that returns the contaminants to the oil pan???
Phooey, no way...
What's suspended in the oil and is too small to be trapped by the filter goes right out the tail pipe, along with the burned oil...
At 1000-1200mi per quart, I'd maybe change oil & filter at 15K mi...
Oh yeah the Purolator Classic??? I threw a couple of those in the trash after I experienced bad start up knock on a 26K mi Ford 4.6... That was probably three years ago and I haven't had a issue since with a Pure One or Motorcraft...
I would be interested in the overall condition and your intentions for this vehicle. While it may have consumed less oil in the past, it is certainly not consuming an undue amount now. This suggests that the engine has loosened up, has some wear, but still has a long way to go.
The problem with only adding oil is that the oil that is burnt off does not take contaminants with it. In fact, they concentrate. This motor is known to be prone to sludge.
My opinion is that vehicles should be maintained properly throughout their lives for the simple reason that you don't know how long that life would be. A few of the posts are looking for you to stop changing oil and essentially "see what happens". You could do that and squander 100k of usable life remainining.
I would go to a 5 or 10 40 high mileage Dino oil, bought on sale and change to ab7500 to 10000 oci.. That is the grown-up solution.
So the engine is a distillery that returns the contaminants to the oil pan???
Phooey, no way...
What's suspended in the oil and is too small to be trapped by the filter goes right out the tail pipe, along with the burned oil...
At 1000-1200mi per quart, I'd maybe change oil & filter at 15K mi...
Oh yeah the Purolator Classic??? I threw a couple of those in the trash after I experienced bad start up knock on a 26K mi Ford 4.6... That was probably three years ago and I haven't had a issue since with a Pure One or Motorcraft...
If you were changing the oil at 5k.. I'd go 7k or so., and top it off between if its using that much oil.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Yeah, just change the filter every 5k and keep it topped off...
Purolator Classic filter every 5K miles, or a synthetic filter every 8-10K miles?
I like a higher quality filter for longer interval. For that matter you co uld spin on an Amsoil 15-or 25k filter.
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Yeah, just change the filter every 5k and keep it topped off...
Purolator Classic filter every 5K miles, or a synthetic filter every 8-10K miles?
I like a higher quality filter for longer interval. For that matter you co uld spin on an Amsoil 15-or 25k filter.
This is a great topic for the VTEC guys. The last time I did an oil change on it was over a year ago. Put maybe 8,000 on the M1 and filter plus add oil after 1,000 miles. To keep adding or dump?
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