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#3133666 - 09/23/13 05:23 PM stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good?
ziggy Offline


Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 1100
Loc: stamford, CT
Just got back from my local autozone. They have the blue bottles of stp oil additive, with zinc zddp as advertised for lesser wear, and a high mileage one, advertising for cars over 75,000 also with zinc. How much zinc is in this stuff? and is it worth it? $3.99 a bottle, says to add too every 4-5 quarts of oil.

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#3133676 - 09/23/13 05:35 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: ziggy]
ziggy Offline


Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 1100
Loc: stamford, CT
OK found some threads. I use 10w 30 dino right now. apparently it will raise the oils weight??? is that right/ so adding an entire bottle of the blue one, will make my 10w 30 a 54w0? or 15w 50 or something?

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#3133679 - 09/23/13 05:40 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: ziggy]
Char Baby Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7353
Loc: Rochester NY
A very long time ago(back in the early-mid 90's) Consumer Reports did one of their Taxi Cab/Oil Test. They also tested STP Products(Blue & Red Bottles) and, IIRC, CR said that these STP Oil Treatments changed the grade of oil into a grade not recomended by the engine MFG's.

Use this STP product with caution as, IMHO it's last resort stuff!


Edited by Char Baby (09/23/13 05:41 PM)
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1980 Firebird FORMULA V8-NEW
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#3133683 - 09/23/13 05:45 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: ziggy]
NHGUY Offline


Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3397
Loc: USA
Too much ZDDP will cause corrosion.I think ZDDP has been overly coveted by older car fans...todays oils have far less,and todays oils are the best ever.There are plenty of other additives that work better than ZDDP.And the newest oils have it.

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#3133684 - 09/23/13 05:45 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: ziggy]
chubbs1 Offline


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4574
Loc: Merritt Island FL, USA
Use this junk at your own risk. There is absolutely no benefit from this product that you cant get with the proper oil selection for your vehicle. Use a HM oil if you want.
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#3133694 - 09/23/13 05:56 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: ziggy]
ziggy Offline


Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 1100
Loc: stamford, CT
Thats what i figure chubbs smirk almost bought it too. decided to do som e research first.
advance auto has hyper lube zinc aditive, a clear liquid, but at $15.99 for a 12 bottle yikes!!! it appears to not be a oil thickener.
i think stp's line of stuff is [censored]. thier air filter boxes do not state at what efficiency, thier oil fitlers are 96% multi pass, and thier line of products seems it owuld do more harm. I remember as a teen, 1992-93, had used stp gas additive, in a 91 saturn, and a 85 isuzu I mark hatchback. it would always case my fuel light too go on, so stopped suing it, light would never return. eh, at least at autozone, i noticed (4967 filter) it was no longer an e core* but had slits instead of holes in the tube itself, inside filter.

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#3133792 - 09/23/13 07:31 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: ziggy]
Phishin Offline


Registered: 05/01/12
Posts: 1499
Loc: Indiana
If you want increased zinc, Lucas Break-In additive is your answer. It's the only Lucas product I'll buy.

50,000 ppm zinc in that stuff. So every ounce raises zinc approx. 125 ppm in a 4 quart sump.
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2010 Accord-LX K24: PU 5w30
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#3133797 - 09/23/13 07:34 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: ziggy]
CourierDriver Offline


Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 3145
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: ziggy
Thats what i figure chubbs smirk almost bought it too. decided to do som e research first.
advance auto has hyper lube zinc aditive, a clear liquid, but at $15.99 for a 12 bottle yikes!!! it appears to not be a oil thickener.
i think stp's line of stuff is [censored]. thier air filter boxes do not state at what efficiency, thier oil fitlers are 96% multi pass, and thier line of products seems it owuld do more harm. I remember as a teen, 1992-93, had used stp gas additive, in a 91 saturn, and a 85 isuzu I mark hatchback. it would always case my fuel light too go on, so stopped suing it, light would never return. eh, at least at autozone, i noticed (4967 filter) it was no longer an e core* but had slits instead of holes in the tube itself, inside filter.
If u will go to the home page in here: see Oil University data, lots of good reading on oils and such,,lots of stuff.....
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#3134149 - 09/24/13 07:59 AM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: NHGUY]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11669
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Too much ZDDP will cause corrosion.I think ZDDP has been overly coveted by older car fans...

Don't worry, there's a VOA somewhere here of the STP having very little in the way of ZDDP, to the point that it will actually dilute the ZDDP level of an ordinary SN/GF-5 PCMO. Another steaming pile of manure from an additive company....
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2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3134393 - 09/24/13 11:48 AM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: ziggy]
ziggy Offline


Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 1100
Loc: stamford, CT
Its amazing how much useless [censored] is out thier, misleading, false advertising: ( thier must be not much or no regulation over these products. i keep thinking, years ago, had heard or read, stp was started by some race car driver... cant say stp was the same product back then, than it is today

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#3135122 - 09/24/13 09:37 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: Garak]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 4627
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Too much ZDDP will cause corrosion.I think ZDDP has been overly coveted by older car fans...

Don't worry, there's a VOA somewhere here of the STP having very little in the way of ZDDP, to the point that it will actually dilute the ZDDP level of an ordinary SN/GF-5 PCMO. Another steaming pile of manure from an additive company....


Yes, this. It has Zinc but probably less than the oil you're adding it to.

STP Oil treatment is old school. When I was a kid no oil change was complete without a can of STP. It is priced right though and still has it's place if your oil has sheared on you or you have an old oil burner it will slow it down. My "old school" Jeep seems to kinda like the stuff too. Wouldn't use it in anything "modern" though.
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#3135221 - 09/25/13 12:46 AM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: KCJeep]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11669
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
It may have its place, I suppose, but those places would be extremely limited. I don't like blending oils, let alone using additives. There are enough viscosity choices out there, even within grades, that I don't see a lot of use for such an additive.

No one should be using such a thing under warranty anyhow, and if they're out of warranty or, worse, are nursing a vehicle along, a lot of options open up. But, you're right. Given the price point, along with its availability and visibility over the years, it doesn't surprise me that people use it.

These days, with the choices available and the success I've had with things like MaxLife, I wouldn't even consider it. There's no doubt some things do better on a thicker oil. Buy thicker then! wink
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3135524 - 09/25/13 10:37 AM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: ziggy]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 4627
Loc: Mahzurrah!
My Jeep likes "thick" oil but grumbles a little at start up with it. STP is peculiar, it thickens the oil but does not seem to have any adverse affect on start up, if anything starts are better with it. Doesn't make sense to me. Anyway I am going to run an OCI with it for giggles soon and do a UOA for curiousity's sake.

I don't think we have a single UOA on here with STP in the crank (for obvious reasons ha ha) so it will be interesting.

Oh, regarding the original topic OP the regular blue bottle STP is the better buy IMO. The HM has even less additives because it contains seal conditioners instead, otherwise it's just the same viscosity improver (oil thickener) and it costs a lot more. Pass on the HM IMO.
_________________________
2004 Jeep GC WJ 4.0 @ 123k Pennzoil HM 10w30 - MoS2
Napa Silver 31515
KIA Sedona 40k, Chevy Lumina 174k, Chrysler Sebring 172k, Chrysler Concorde 97k

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#3181590 - 11/07/13 06:48 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: ziggy]
Plumber Offline


Registered: 10/23/13
Posts: 122
Loc: Northern Illinois
I am running some STP and 5w-30 dino National brand in my 54 Plymouth. I plan on doing a UOA next driving season for kicks.

I also run the same mix in my 91 Chevy 1500 4.3.

I am aware it thickens the oil, but this allows me to buy all the same weight oil. All my vehicles require 5w-30. Well, the 54 requires 30wt.

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#3182079 - 11/08/13 10:36 AM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: ziggy]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 4627
Loc: Mahzurrah!
My STP experiment didn't work out. I used too much and got the oil too thick. Maybe I'll revisit that again later if I've got something thin I want to thicken up and run in the Jeep.

I have used it in the past in more moderate doses and it worked fine. No UOA though.
_________________________
2004 Jeep GC WJ 4.0 @ 123k Pennzoil HM 10w30 - MoS2
Napa Silver 31515
KIA Sedona 40k, Chevy Lumina 174k, Chrysler Sebring 172k, Chrysler Concorde 97k

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#3182103 - 11/08/13 11:00 AM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: KCJeep]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21381
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
STP is peculiar, it thickens the oil but does not seem to have any adverse affect on start up, if anything starts are better with it. Doesn't make sense to me.


It's funny you mention it doesn't have adverse effects on start up. You brought me back in time, a long time. Years ago, many years, I used it in an old oil burning beater I bought to commute to college with when funds were low. I used it to slow consumption until I could afford a nicer car. Anyway I remember easy winter starts with it in the sump, God only knows how it flowed once the engine fired up, but it spun up real easy. Their advertising in the 60's and 70's touted its ability to make oil cling so cold starts were easier. I wonder if there was any truth to that? LOL
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#3182167 - 11/08/13 12:35 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: demarpaint]
Plumber Offline


Registered: 10/23/13
Posts: 122
Loc: Northern Illinois
I saw an ad on Ebay for sale a while back. STP had an illustration of an engine with a coat and hat on, covered in ice and snow.

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#3182229 - 11/08/13 01:48 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: KCJeep]
Finz Offline


Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 411
Loc: Northern NJ
Why do you say too thick? What happened?
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#3185909 - 11/12/13 04:05 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: Finz]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 4627
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Originally Posted By: Finz
Why do you say too thick? What happened?


A bottle in a 6 qt sump seems to work just fine, I've done it even in winter with no adverse affects whatsoever that I could detect. Like I mentioned if anything cold starts seemed easier. A bottle and half...lifter noise the first few minutes of running. Too much LOL.

I still want to run a single bottle and UOA sometime just out of curiousity.
_________________________
2004 Jeep GC WJ 4.0 @ 123k Pennzoil HM 10w30 - MoS2
Napa Silver 31515
KIA Sedona 40k, Chevy Lumina 174k, Chrysler Sebring 172k, Chrysler Concorde 97k

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#3186283 - 11/13/13 03:49 AM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: ziggy]
default Offline


Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 527
Loc: Michigan
Its a good way to thicken oil in an emergency, keep your lawnmower with a rod knock or oil burning issue running, shut up a noisy worn out FWD manual transaxle, etc. Beyond that its junk, definitely doesn't belong in anything in good working order.

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#3186770 - 11/13/13 03:51 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: ziggy]
Mystic Offline


Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 7546
Loc: Colorado
I never cared much for STP Oil Treatment myself. It is basically thick oil with some chemical additives, and according to VOAs here it has a low amount of ZDDP. Newer vehicles require thinner oil and STP basically will just slow down oil consumption in an oil burner. Even in an oil burner a person might be better off just using thicker oil, like 20W50.

The one time I noticed a difference with STP was with a small car and the STP they used to have for small four cylinder engine cars. The car really did seem to run better.

I did not know they even still made STP.


Edited by Mystic (11/13/13 03:52 PM)

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#3188027 - 11/14/13 08:36 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: Mystic]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11669
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Mystic
I never cared much for STP Oil Treatment myself. It is basically thick oil with some chemical additives, and according to VOAs here it has a low amount of ZDDP. Newer vehicles require thinner oil and STP basically will just slow down oil consumption in an oil burner. Even in an oil burner a person might be better off just using thicker oil, like 20W50.

Absolutely. If you want a thicker oil, buy a thicker oil. If you want more ZDDP, buy an oil that has more (which is probably going to be thicker, too).
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3210252 - 12/08/13 10:41 AM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: ziggy]
Michael_P Offline


Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 1013
Loc: Ohio
Question. If too much zinc can cause corrosion, why is zinc used as sacrificial anodes to protect marine metals such as aluminum and steel? Zinc would be the least noble metal of any metal found in an engine. What about the phosphorous that accompanies zinc, or the dithiophosphate compound? I have seen cam surfaces with rust pocks on them where the mechanic called it zinc poisoning. Furthermore, zinc corrosion seems to be magnified in a marine environment, or at least that is what I have been told. I am by no means a chemist, but know enough to sound dumb. My boat with over 2500 hours on it had zero internal corrosion on a teardown and it has seen 1600PPM zinc oil since day one. I have gone as far as 220 hours on an OCI as well.

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#3210786 - 12/08/13 08:36 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: Michael_P]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11669
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Maybe Mola will read this and share his insights. As for the "limits" I place on ZDDP content, I'm probably being conservative. But, there is a point of diminishing returns even before spalling occurs, if I recall correctly.

As for zinc anodes to protect from corrosion versus spalling inside an engine, an aqueous solution is totally different from the environment inside an engine.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3211630 - 12/09/13 07:24 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: Michael_P]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14659
Loc: Midwest
Originally Posted By: Michael_P
Question. If too much zinc can cause corrosion, why is zinc used as sacrificial anodes to protect marine metals such as aluminum and steel? Zinc would be the least noble metal of any metal found in an engine. What about the phosphorous that accompanies zinc, or the dithiophosphate compound? I have seen cam surfaces with rust pocks on them where the mechanic called it zinc poisoning. Furthermore, zinc corrosion seems to be magnified in a marine environment, or at least that is what I have been told. I am by no means a chemist, but know enough to sound dumb. My boat with over 2500 hours on it had zero internal corrosion on a teardown and it has seen 1600PPM zinc oil since day one. I have gone as far as 220 hours on an OCI as well.


Cathodic protection is due to an electro-chemical effect and can hardly be compared to surface interactions in tribology.

Here is a good explanation of cathodic protection and sacrificial anodes:
Cathodic Protection

But you're right Michael, it the concentration of phosphorous and sulfur in the ZDDP molecule.

Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphates or ZDDP (or Dithiophosphoric Acid, O,O'-Isobutyl Amyl Ester, Zinc Salt ) is an ester which is used as an Anti-Wear agent and an Anti-Oxidant agent (a multifunctional additive) in oil additives and is composed of the elements of zinc, phosphorous, and sulfur.

When concentrations get above approx. 1200 ppm, and when under high moisture conditions and extremely high temperatures, there is the potential for the ZDDP molecule to split apart (via hydrolosis) and form acids attacking the metals as acids of sulfuric and phosphoric acid.

Marine oils, both gear lubes and PCMO's, as well as classic car and HDEO oils, have a higher level of anti-corrosion agents which tend to combat any acid attack. Most Marine engines also tend to run cooler, only to expel moisture at WOT when hot.


Edited by MolaKule (12/09/13 07:25 PM)
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#3212964 - 12/10/13 11:24 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: ziggy]
Michael_P Offline


Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 1013
Loc: Ohio
Great explination MolaKule. Thanks.
So would a higher TBN combat this or are anti corrosion agents needed for this?

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#3213458 - 12/11/13 01:50 PM Re: stp oil additive with zddp, and high mileage,good? [Re: ziggy]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14659
Loc: Midwest
The tbn is primarily deterrmined by the calcium or sodium detergents.

Quote:
Detergents (Surface Protective Additive): metallo-organic compounds of sodium, calcium, magnesium, boron phenolates, phosphates and sulfonates such as alkylbenzene sulfonic acids, alkylphenol sulfides, alkylsalacyclic acids; Lift deposits from surfaces to keep them suspended.


The corrosion inhibitors include some additional agents that include Metal Deactivators and Rust inhibitors:

Quote:
Metal Deactivator (Protective Additive): ZDDP, ZTDC, Moly TDC, Antimony TDC, family of diphenylamines and amides, and olefin sulfides, heterocyclic sulfur-nitrogen compounds; inhibits corrosive effects of oxygen with metals and decreases metal interaction with oxygen compounds to reduce oxidation of oil.

Rust Inhibitor (Surface Protective Additive): Barium sulfonates, amine phosphates, phosphordithioates, sodium thizoles (for coolants),


Chemistry of Additives
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