oil for 2009 Smart...

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I need an oil recommendation for my 2009 Smart car...

Needs to be a MB 229.5 spec...

Car does not like thick oil, but it works hard and runs hot...

Weather does not get really cold here, a few days below zero, but a lot above 90...

Looking at Mobil 1 0W-40, 5W-40, or Castrol Edge 0W-40...
 
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Anything with the MB 229.5 spec will be similar in terms of oil thickness, so take your pick.

What makes you think the car does not like thick oil? Which oils have you tried running in it? Which oil did it like best?
 
Originally Posted By: EricF
I'd just use Mobil 1 5W40 ESP Formula M
it has MB229.51 spec for Mercedes Benz.

Care to elaborate on your thought process here?
 
Mobil 1 is avaliable in many weights and has proven itself.
If you buy at walmart its 25/jug which makes it an effective way to lubricate.
 
Any get up and go
this little car has
gives up and leaves
when you use a thick oil....

I've driven deuce and a half (2 1/2 ton) military trucks that accelerated faster...
 
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Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
I've driven deuce and a half (2 1/2 ton) military trucks that accelerated faster...

That's what 1 liter (70hp) engine does in a 1900 lbs vehicle. One reason why the wife didn't buy it. The engine sounded awful and the car couldn't get out of its own way. But we digress...

If you want lighter oil, you're going to have to move away from the MB 229.5 spec.
 
I'm sure it's good for its intended purpose. My wife was just misguided in wanting it in the first place based on her needs.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
What makes you think the car does not like thick oil?

He asked it and it told him; those cars are pretty Smart, you know.
 
They're are probably lots of examples of cars that the experts did not like and owner/drivers loved them. I've driven a Smart Car and you will never be on the fence. You'll either embrace it or hate it. If you own one be careful about taking it to a quick lube oil change place. You will get the wrong oil.
 
Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
I need an oil recommendation for my 2009 Smart car...

Needs to be a MB 229.5 spec...

Car does not like thick oil, but it works hard and runs hot...

Weather does not get really cold here, a few days below zero, but a lot above 90...

Looking at Mobil 1 0W-40, 5W-40, or Castrol Edge 0W-40...

It is typical european engine. It requires thicker oil. You can try GC 0W30. It meets MB 229.5, it is thick enough, but still less thicker then M1 0W40.
Try it, and see what feels best. Still I would stick with either M1, GC or PU 5W40.
 
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Originally Posted By: edyvw
It is typical european engine. It requires thicker oil. You can try GC 0W30. It meets MB 229.5, it is thick enough, but still less thicker then M1 0W40.
Try it, and see what feels best. Still I would stick with either M1, GC or PU 5W40.


The engine is actually a Mitsubishi unit, and the original smaller displacement version was designed to power one of Mitsubishi's own kei cars.

Since smart is a Daimler brand, Mercedes-Benz has applied its maintenance schedule and oil specifications to the smart, despite the fact that the car does not utilise a MB-designed or manufactured engine. MB calls for the oil to meet the 229.5 spec and to be changed on a 1 year/10,000 mile interval.

I've owned 3 smarts and have used a number of different oils in them, many of which are not on the 229.5 sheet. One thing I've never noted was an appreciable difference in fuel economy or power output when using various viscosities ranging from Mobil 1 0W-20 to Rotella T6 5W-40.

Currently I'm using Rotella T6 year-round along with a Fram Ultra 6607 filter, though I may switch to Delo 400 LE 5W-40 or Rotella T5 10W-30 and a Tough Guard for the next change. I prefer HDEO for this application, and the 1 gallon container is perfect for the smart's 3.7 quart capacity.

Just as an additional FYI, the OEM smart filter changed last year from a Tokyo Roki to a Mann. The Tokyo Roki can still be sourced by the appropriate Mitsubishi or Yamaha part number.
 
Originally Posted By: Padawan
Originally Posted By: edyvw
It is typical european engine. It requires thicker oil. You can try GC 0W30. It meets MB 229.5, it is thick enough, but still less thicker then M1 0W40.
Try it, and see what feels best. Still I would stick with either M1, GC or PU 5W40.


The engine is actually a Mitsubishi unit, and the original smaller displacement version was designed to power one of Mitsubishi's own kei cars.

Since smart is a Daimler brand, Mercedes-Benz has applied its maintenance schedule and oil specifications to the smart, despite the fact that the car does not utilise a MB-designed or manufactured engine. MB calls for the oil to meet the 229.5 spec and to be changed on a 1 year/10,000 mile interval.

I've owned 3 smarts and have used a number of different oils in them, many of which are not on the 229.5 sheet. One thing I've never noted was an appreciable difference in fuel economy or power output when using various viscosities ranging from Mobil 1 0W-20 to Rotella T6 5W-40.

Currently I'm using Rotella T6 year-round along with a Fram Ultra 6607 filter, though I may switch to Delo 400 LE 5W-40 or Rotella T5 10W-30 and a Tough Guard for the next change. I prefer HDEO for this application, and the 1 gallon container is perfect for the smart's 3.7 quart capacity.

Just as an additional FYI, the OEM smart filter changed last year from a Tokyo Roki to a Mann. The Tokyo Roki can still be sourced by the appropriate Mitsubishi or Yamaha part number.


T6 falls well into required specs for European cars.
When it comes to the choice of filters, I try to stay away from FRAMM and their bombastic names and cheap products.
I have more then exhoustive experience with MANN and would stick with them.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
T6 falls well into required specs for European cars.
When it comes to the choice of filters, I try to stay away from FRAMM and their bombastic names and cheap products.
I have more then exhoustive experience with MANN and would stick with them.


I'm not sure what you mean by "required specs for European cars", but Rotella T6 is not on the MB 229.5 approved list. Clearly that isn't something that concerns me, but the original poster did mention wanting a 229.5 oil.

Everyone has his/her own filter preferences, though the Ultra is widely regarded as one of the best off-the-shelf filters available.
 
Originally Posted By: Padawan
Originally Posted By: edyvw
T6 falls well into required specs for European cars.
When it comes to the choice of filters, I try to stay away from FRAMM and their bombastic names and cheap products.
I have more then exhoustive experience with MANN and would stick with them.


I'm not sure what you mean by "required specs for European cars", but Rotella T6 is not on the MB 229.5 approved list. Clearly that isn't something that concerns me, but the original poster did mention wanting a 229.5 oil.

Everyone has his/her own filter preferences, though the Ultra is widely regarded as one of the best off-the-shelf filters available.


The specs for T6 are good enough for many European cars.
Not sure about NOACK on T6 though, so not sure about MB 229.5. If NOACK on T6 is below 10% then I do not see reason why cannot be replacement for MB 229.5. Everything else when it comes to T6 is complimentary with MB 229.5.
I opened several FRAMM TG and Ultra etc, and def. not going on my engine!
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
The specs for T6 are good enough for many European cars.
Not sure about NOACK on T6 though, so not sure about MB 229.5. If NOACK on T6 is below 10% then I do not see reason why cannot be replacement for MB 229.5. Everything else when it comes to T6 is complimentary with MB 229.5.


How can you say this? MB229.5 has a large number of laboratory and engine tests required to achieve the approval - the specifications that T6 carries do not overlap with MB229.5 at all. It is primarily a HDEO and as such has achieved a load of HD-relevant specs. The only engine test that is common across these and MB229.5 is the OM646, and the requirements for this are stricter in the MB229.5 specification than in 228.31 and ACEA E9.

I'm sure it is a great oil and may do a good job but you can not recommend it as being 229.5-capable.
 
Originally Posted By: weasley
Originally Posted By: edyvw
The specs for T6 are good enough for many European cars.
Not sure about NOACK on T6 though, so not sure about MB 229.5. If NOACK on T6 is below 10% then I do not see reason why cannot be replacement for MB 229.5. Everything else when it comes to T6 is complimentary with MB 229.5.


How can you say this? MB229.5 has a large number of laboratory and engine tests required to achieve the approval - the specifications that T6 carries do not overlap with MB229.5 at all. It is primarily a HDEO and as such has achieved a load of HD-relevant specs. The only engine test that is common across these and MB229.5 is the OM646, and the requirements for this are stricter in the MB229.5 specification than in 228.31 and ACEA E9.

I'm sure it is a great oil and may do a good job but you can not recommend it as being 229.5-capable.


Well I can read, and I did, both sheets.
I did not say it meets every single spec. I even said I am not sure about NOACK, which is big deal when it comes to MB 229.5.
That being said, considering wide use of this oil in gasoline applications, especially in European turbo engines, there is something about this oil that makes it applicable in gas applications where requirements are more stringent, like HTHS 3.5 or higher etc.
That oil does not carry VW502.00, but it is widly used in many VW turbo engines. Personally, I would use T6 before Castrol 5W40 in VW application, and considering roots of Smart engine, I do not think it is any problem using it in that application.
 
There's a lot more to the OEM approvals than just the oil's properties. They have to perform in fired (gasoline) engine tests to a certain level. If T6 was adequate for 229.5, Shell would get it approved instead of producing a completely different product in Helix/Ultra Euro. T6 is a fine oil, I use it. But no one should use it in their engine expecting it to perform to the level of a 229.5 type oil (including LL-01 and 502.505).

EDIT: this is reiterating weasley's point.
 
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