why is it so freakin hard to get a set of tires balanced properly? The inconvenience of having to take the car back again and again till they get it right is annoying to say the least!
Wheel Balancing
- Thread starter oilchangeguy
- Start date
- Status
Off topic-
I've noticed a strange thing in the last couple years,
Right after I get my tires balanced I sometimes get a slight vibration on the higway. But if I wait a few days it will go away and never return.
I've experienced it on my last two vehicles. I have no explanation why it happens. My only guess has to do with the tires changing position, and perhaps needing a small amount of wear to sort of wear-in to the alignment specs in their new position. But I'm reaching pretty far for that explanation...
I've noticed a strange thing in the last couple years,
Right after I get my tires balanced I sometimes get a slight vibration on the higway. But if I wait a few days it will go away and never return.
I've experienced it on my last two vehicles. I have no explanation why it happens. My only guess has to do with the tires changing position, and perhaps needing a small amount of wear to sort of wear-in to the alignment specs in their new position. But I'm reaching pretty far for that explanation...
I think just a regular spin balance. If they end up after 2-3 visits make it right, why dont they the first time?
Alloy rims not centering properly in the machine? Dunno. Maybe only one guy out three is any good at it in this shop.
Vehicles in good repair otherwise? I'd expect an improperly balanced tire would be noticed sooner with bad shocks or worn components.
Vehicles in good repair otherwise? I'd expect an improperly balanced tire would be noticed sooner with bad shocks or worn components.
Most spin balances are a dynamic balance, unless for some reason they're choosing to do a static balance.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
I have had the same issue with my local shop. BRAND NEW tires and they wobble on the highway, it was VERY bad at first but they have "worn in" and are not as bad now.
On my vehicles it hasn't happened when the tires were new, only when I got a rotate and balance.
If they vibrated from day one I would take them back for a rebalance.
I have had the same issue with my local shop. BRAND NEW tires and they wobble on the highway, it was VERY bad at first but they have "worn in" and are not as bad now.
On my vehicles it hasn't happened when the tires were new, only when I got a rotate and balance.
If they vibrated from day one I would take them back for a rebalance.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: oilchangeguy
why is it so freakin hard to get a set of tires balanced properly? The inconvenience of having to take the car back again and again till they get it right is annoying to say the least!
What tires? I've never had this issue, and that's dealing with 3x separate shops. Tires have usually all been Michelin's though.
why is it so freakin hard to get a set of tires balanced properly? The inconvenience of having to take the car back again and again till they get it right is annoying to say the least!
What tires? I've never had this issue, and that's dealing with 3x separate shops. Tires have usually all been Michelin's though.
agree, michelin and costco.
some tires have uneven springy ness or are not round. impossible to balance.
some tires have uneven springy ness or are not round. impossible to balance.
Last edited:
The usual practice of mounting the new tires and balancing them right away doesn't work well for some tires. The next time you buy a set, maybe see if you can have tie tires put on, take the car for a drive, then return for the balancing. It's an inconvenience to do it that way, but no worse than doing the multiple visits thing.
Originally Posted By: oilchangeguy
why is it so freakin hard to get a set of tires balanced properly?
It's not the balancing, it's the MOUNTING. Nobody knows how to do MOUNTING properly. It's not tough, but does require that the tech actually give a hoot, and to know more than the bare-minimum to avoid blowing himself up.
Costco techs receive training directly from the tire manufacturers. They know more than most. Get your tires from them.
Ignore anybody who says that tires are difficult to make round, or that rims are bent, or that you need a road-force balancer. None of those are true.
why is it so freakin hard to get a set of tires balanced properly?
It's not the balancing, it's the MOUNTING. Nobody knows how to do MOUNTING properly. It's not tough, but does require that the tech actually give a hoot, and to know more than the bare-minimum to avoid blowing himself up.
Costco techs receive training directly from the tire manufacturers. They know more than most. Get your tires from them.
Ignore anybody who says that tires are difficult to make round, or that rims are bent, or that you need a road-force balancer. None of those are true.
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: oilchangeguy
why is it so freakin hard to get a set of tires balanced properly?
It's not the balancing, it's the MOUNTING. Nobody knows how to do MOUNTING properly. It's not tough, but does require that the tech actually give a hoot, and to know more than the bare-minimum to avoid blowing himself up.
Costco techs receive training directly from the tire manufacturers. They know more than most. Get your tires from them.
Ignore anybody who says that tires are difficult to make round, or that rims are bent, or that you need a road-force balancer. None of those are true.
Would you like to expand just a bit on this? Give us the basics of what they are all doing wrong? You seem to know a lot about this subject.
Originally Posted By: oilchangeguy
why is it so freakin hard to get a set of tires balanced properly?
It's not the balancing, it's the MOUNTING. Nobody knows how to do MOUNTING properly. It's not tough, but does require that the tech actually give a hoot, and to know more than the bare-minimum to avoid blowing himself up.
Costco techs receive training directly from the tire manufacturers. They know more than most. Get your tires from them.
Ignore anybody who says that tires are difficult to make round, or that rims are bent, or that you need a road-force balancer. None of those are true.
Would you like to expand just a bit on this? Give us the basics of what they are all doing wrong? You seem to know a lot about this subject.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: user52165
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: oilchangeguy
why is it so freakin hard to get a set of tires balanced properly?
It's not the balancing, it's the MOUNTING. Nobody knows how to do MOUNTING properly. It's not tough, but does require that the tech actually give a hoot, and to know more than the bare-minimum to avoid blowing himself up.
Costco techs receive training directly from the tire manufacturers. They know more than most. Get your tires from them.
Ignore anybody who says that tires are difficult to make round, or that rims are bent, or that you need a road-force balancer. None of those are true.
Would you like to expand just a bit on this? Give us the basics of what they are all doing wrong? You seem to know a lot about this subject.
+2, you lube them, they pop in. The human isn't really much of that equation.
After they pop in, make sure the little "curb feeler bumper" thing lines up evenly with the rim flange.
Or are you talking about the little circle dots lining up with the valve stem?
About it. ???
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: oilchangeguy
why is it so freakin hard to get a set of tires balanced properly?
It's not the balancing, it's the MOUNTING. Nobody knows how to do MOUNTING properly. It's not tough, but does require that the tech actually give a hoot, and to know more than the bare-minimum to avoid blowing himself up.
Costco techs receive training directly from the tire manufacturers. They know more than most. Get your tires from them.
Ignore anybody who says that tires are difficult to make round, or that rims are bent, or that you need a road-force balancer. None of those are true.
Would you like to expand just a bit on this? Give us the basics of what they are all doing wrong? You seem to know a lot about this subject.
+2, you lube them, they pop in. The human isn't really much of that equation.
After they pop in, make sure the little "curb feeler bumper" thing lines up evenly with the rim flange.
Or are you talking about the little circle dots lining up with the valve stem?
About it. ???
One thing I think is a problem with a lot of people balancing tires is not taking the time to use the fine balance mode on their machine. In the normal mode you can show all zeros on the display, which sometimes is okay, but it will round out .3 oz. to zero. But when on fine mode it can show .3 oz on the inside and outside. If the .3 oz. from side to side is 180 degrees apart no problem, will be zero static. But if the .3 oz ends up straight across from each other imbalance is over 1/2 ounce, which is a problem. Also it is possible for a tire to slip on the wheel under hard braking or accelerating right after tires are installed because the tire lube hasn't dried.
Boy do I love tire threads. Everyone has an opinion and some of those are just flat wrong.
First, no one has mentioned "uniformity". (Think "out of round" and you won't be far off the mark.)
You can have a non-uniform (out of round) assembly that is perfectly balanced - and it will vibrate.
And just so everyone understands - nothing is perfectly round. It is especially difficult to manufacture "round" tires, because they are formed in molds that get heated and cooled, which warps the mold. What is of issue is what tolerance is acceptable - and every tire manufacturer has slightly different take on this.
There is a machine - Hunter GSP9700 - which can measure the amount of non-uniformity. They call this value "Road Force" to distinguish it from other methods of measuring non-uniformity. Personally, I think every tire shop should be using these. It takes only a slight bit more time, but it can help eliminate the very thing that this thread is about - bounce back.
But there are things besides tires that can cause non-uniformity - and non-concentric tire mounting is one of them.
Contrary to popular opinion, tires sometimes only partially seat on the wheel. I've seen Road Force values drop in half by lubing the rim during the mounting process - and I would recommend everyone who mounts tires do that. Yes, I know it takes extra time, but the results. show a noticeable improvement.
- AND -
Non-concentric tire mounting can throw the balance off, so when the tire fully seats, it needs re-balancing.
There is also the issue of inflating the tire to 40 psi before setting the tire to the usage pressure.
And I am not a fan of paste mounting lube. I think liquid lubes are more likely to get to where there is potential sticking spots.
And lastly: My experience is that vehicles are generally insensitive to balance values up to 1/4 oz (5 grams). You have to get up to 1/2 oz (10 grams) before MOST vehicles "feel" the imbalance. That's why tire balancers use 1/4 oz (5 grams) as the tolerance and why the weights come in those increments.
Spending extra time to try to improve the balance tighter than 1/4 oz (5 grams) is largely a waste of time.
I just returned from Houston where this problem was the subject - and interestingly, my counter-parts at Michelin shared my opinions as expressed above.
First, no one has mentioned "uniformity". (Think "out of round" and you won't be far off the mark.)
You can have a non-uniform (out of round) assembly that is perfectly balanced - and it will vibrate.
And just so everyone understands - nothing is perfectly round. It is especially difficult to manufacture "round" tires, because they are formed in molds that get heated and cooled, which warps the mold. What is of issue is what tolerance is acceptable - and every tire manufacturer has slightly different take on this.
There is a machine - Hunter GSP9700 - which can measure the amount of non-uniformity. They call this value "Road Force" to distinguish it from other methods of measuring non-uniformity. Personally, I think every tire shop should be using these. It takes only a slight bit more time, but it can help eliminate the very thing that this thread is about - bounce back.
But there are things besides tires that can cause non-uniformity - and non-concentric tire mounting is one of them.
Contrary to popular opinion, tires sometimes only partially seat on the wheel. I've seen Road Force values drop in half by lubing the rim during the mounting process - and I would recommend everyone who mounts tires do that. Yes, I know it takes extra time, but the results. show a noticeable improvement.
- AND -
Non-concentric tire mounting can throw the balance off, so when the tire fully seats, it needs re-balancing.
There is also the issue of inflating the tire to 40 psi before setting the tire to the usage pressure.
And I am not a fan of paste mounting lube. I think liquid lubes are more likely to get to where there is potential sticking spots.
And lastly: My experience is that vehicles are generally insensitive to balance values up to 1/4 oz (5 grams). You have to get up to 1/2 oz (10 grams) before MOST vehicles "feel" the imbalance. That's why tire balancers use 1/4 oz (5 grams) as the tolerance and why the weights come in those increments.
Spending extra time to try to improve the balance tighter than 1/4 oz (5 grams) is largely a waste of time.
I just returned from Houston where this problem was the subject - and interestingly, my counter-parts at Michelin shared my opinions as expressed above.
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Off topic-
I've noticed a strange thing in the last couple years,
Right after I get my tires balanced I sometimes get a slight vibration on the higway. But if I wait a few days it will go away and never return.
I've experienced it on my last two vehicles. I have no explanation why it happens. My only guess has to do with the tires changing position, and perhaps needing a small amount of wear to sort of wear-in to the alignment specs in their new position. But I'm reaching pretty far for that explanation...
I'm assuming you are getting your tires balanced as part of a tire rotation - and if that is the case, here's a possible cause.
Tire wear is different for different wheel positions. Rotating tires puts tires with different (and potentially irregular) wear in positions that would cause a vibration. then the tire starts to wear in the pattern of its new position - and might just erase the old wear pattern - if you catch it early enough - which is why regular tire rotation is recommended by both tire and vehicle manufacturers.
There is also the fact that the tire in the Left Front position is the one that the driver feels the most. Take a vibrating tire from the LF to the RR (farthest from the driver) and the driver might not even notice it. What that means is that the alignment of the rear axle could be causing irregular wear - and vibrating tires - and it isn't until those tires are moved up front that the driver can feel them.
Off topic-
I've noticed a strange thing in the last couple years,
Right after I get my tires balanced I sometimes get a slight vibration on the higway. But if I wait a few days it will go away and never return.
I've experienced it on my last two vehicles. I have no explanation why it happens. My only guess has to do with the tires changing position, and perhaps needing a small amount of wear to sort of wear-in to the alignment specs in their new position. But I'm reaching pretty far for that explanation...
I'm assuming you are getting your tires balanced as part of a tire rotation - and if that is the case, here's a possible cause.
Tire wear is different for different wheel positions. Rotating tires puts tires with different (and potentially irregular) wear in positions that would cause a vibration. then the tire starts to wear in the pattern of its new position - and might just erase the old wear pattern - if you catch it early enough - which is why regular tire rotation is recommended by both tire and vehicle manufacturers.
There is also the fact that the tire in the Left Front position is the one that the driver feels the most. Take a vibrating tire from the LF to the RR (farthest from the driver) and the driver might not even notice it. What that means is that the alignment of the rear axle could be causing irregular wear - and vibrating tires - and it isn't until those tires are moved up front that the driver can feel them.
Last edited:
I would love to have a road force balance machine, but I don't. It would be great to have the extra info it provides, although the roller taking the measurements is only 14 inches or so in diameter compared to the 24 thousand mile diameter of the earth. So far I have never had a vibration issue that balance didn't correct. I can always see some run-out in the tires, and with a straight wheel it doesn't seem to be a issue, although the variations in the tire could cause a problem, not much you can do about it even lubing the wheel and tire properly and I always air down and re-inflate once too. Also some tires seat up so tight sometimes it mights take lots of miles and heating and cooling cycles to find it's home. Gotta love the GSP9700 if someone takes the time to use correctly. I really want one.
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: oilchangeguy
why is it so freakin hard to get a set of tires balanced properly?
It's not the balancing, it's the MOUNTING. Nobody knows how to do MOUNTING properly. It's not tough, but does require that the tech actually give a hoot, and to know more than the bare-minimum to avoid blowing himself up.
Costco techs receive training directly from the tire manufacturers. They know more than most. Get your tires from them.
Ignore anybody who says that tires are difficult to make round, or that rims are bent, or that you need a road-force balancer. None of those are true.
Actually, in New England (aka, Pothole-land), damaged rims are a VERY real possibility!
Originally Posted By: oilchangeguy
why is it so freakin hard to get a set of tires balanced properly?
It's not the balancing, it's the MOUNTING. Nobody knows how to do MOUNTING properly. It's not tough, but does require that the tech actually give a hoot, and to know more than the bare-minimum to avoid blowing himself up.
Costco techs receive training directly from the tire manufacturers. They know more than most. Get your tires from them.
Ignore anybody who says that tires are difficult to make round, or that rims are bent, or that you need a road-force balancer. None of those are true.
Actually, in New England (aka, Pothole-land), damaged rims are a VERY real possibility!
You can balance a square tire perfectly, but that won't make it roll any smoother. Balancing gets blamed for a lot of other tire problems.
- Status
