Affinity confusion: what's in a name?

[faramir9]

So, contrary to a recent thread I started, at the last second The Boss opted for two tires rather than four. (Long story. I am sure none of you guys have ever been through it.)

For two tires, it made no sense to order online, since the rebate deals apply only to sets of four. She wanted---and got---two Firestone Affinity Touring, on sale BOGO 50% off at the local Firestone shop.

Here's the thing: I almost refused to take part in this deal, after I read reviews of the Affinity Touring listed at TR. Then it dawned on me that the UTQG was different on the Affinity Touring listed at the Firestone site....plus the tread looked different....meantime, the specs and tread pattern of the Affinity Touring at the Firestone site matched what's listed as Precision Touring at TR.

You probably figured it out already, but the well-reviewed tire called Precision Touring at TR is essentially the same as the tire called Affinity Touring sold at Firestone retail shops. Meantime, the Affinity Touring listed at TR---with middling reviews at best---is _not_ the same tire as either of the above.

This explains it better: http://is.gd/8oZ7Zd

Strange. The branding confusion almost cost them a sale with us. It 'would' have cost the sale, had I not researched matters and deferred to the boss.

Anyway, it worked out and the lady has decent tires on her Taurus---but has anyone heard of anything like this before?

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: faramir9
She wanted---and got---two Firestone Affinity Touring, on sale BOGO 50% off at the local Firestone shop.


Is she pretty good looking? Post some pictures if you want.

Worst tire I ever had was a Firestone Affinity. Cupping, shifting belts, the store "prorating" them but still cost $93 on some 15 inch wheels. Finally, after 30k, I dumped them. These were 60k tires and the previous Michelins that came with the car went 58k miles.

 

[mrsilv04]

Yes... there's something a little wonky with Firestone's tire lineup.

My sister, who is a Michelin snob, bought a used Subaru with a set of nearly new Firestone Precision Touring tires on it.

Well, she decided to make the best of it, and left the Precision Touring tires on it. Since she had just bought a car, she didn't have a spare $600 laying around to drop on a new set of Michelins.

She said that she's quite surprised with the Precision Touring tires. They've performed much better than she ever expected.

This is the tread pattern that she has:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?...p;affiliate=VZ4

 

[faramir9]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Yes... there's something a little wonky with Firestone's tire lineup.

My sister, who is a Michelin snob, bought a used Subaru with a set of nearly new Firestone Precision Touring tires on it.

Well, she decided to make the best of it, and left the Precision Touring tires on it. Since she had just bought a car, she didn't have a spare $600 laying around to drop on a new set of Michelins.

She said that she's quite surprised with the Precision Touring tires. They've performed much better than she ever expected.

This is the tread pattern that she has:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?...p;affiliate=VZ4


That's the one. Called "Affinity Touring" at Firestone shops, "Precision Touring" for the rest of the world. Even that would be OK---if Firestone did not also market an (inferior) "Affinity Touring" tire sold by online retailers.

Almost like a Marx Brothers routine.

 

[mrsilv04]

Originally Posted By: faramir9
Almost like a Marx Brothers routine.


It is Firestone. Enough said. You caught something that I also noticed when trying to research the tires on Sis's car... but we're probably the 2, out of the 100,000 who didn't catch it.

 

[CapriRacer]

A couple of thoughts:

Tire names can be quite confusing.

First is that tires supplied to vehicle manufacturers (commonly called OE - Original Equipment - tires) are built to the vehicle manufacturer's specs and are unique in themselves - that is, they are not the same as any other tire even though the name on the sidewall is the same. The tread pattern may be different - and sometimes completely different.

In the case of Tire Rack's Firestone Affinity Touring, this looks like a line of OE tires. There are 3 different versions of P195/65R15, many are labeled LRR, and there are only 7 tires in the line.

Second, one of the major complaints from regular tire dealers is that they have to compete with all sorts of outlets for tires - internet, warehouse clubs, mass retailers (whose dedication to tires is minimal - like WallMart). Sometimes it is an issue of advertised price - and people aren't too keen on the tire dealer adding shipping costs LATER in the sale process (like Tire Rack does)

To avoid this problem, many tire manufacturers will offer essentially the same tire, but with a different name on the sidewall to the different retail streams. This is what appears to be going on with Firestone and their Affinity Touring. The F/S website has a long list of tire sizes - and it probably includes the ones Tire Rack has, which have a different tread pattern.

It would not surprise me to find that Bridgestone makes another tire identical to the Precision/Affinity for another retail outlet.

And just a throw-away thought: From Tire Rack's perspective, they only know about what they are offered by Firestone. The fact that the F/S stores have tires with the same name, but a different tread pattern would be completely outside their knowledge base. So asking them about this would be futile. And the same for "Firestone" (I put that word in quotes because it depends on how their call center is structured and what they are willing reveal. Many call centers are operated by the retail end of the business and not the manufacturing and design part of the business.)

 

[faramir9]

Thanks, Barry. Good info as always.

My question concerns why Firestone would produce two tires with exactly the same name, one of which is by all accounts far superior to the other---and then sell the superior of the two identically named tires at their own shops....though folks (like me) who do basic research could easily believe the tire at the Firestone shop is not worth buying. That darn near happened in my case.

I never did understand big business.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: faramir9
Thanks, Barry. Good info as always.

My question concerns why Firestone would produce two tires with exactly the same name, one of which is by all accounts far superior to the other---and then sell the superior of the two identically named tires at their own shops....though folks (like me) who do basic research could easily believe the tire at the Firestone shop is not worth buying. That darn near happened in my case.

I never did understand big business.



Faramir,

First, vehicle manufacturer's specs can be quite tight when it comes to things like balance and uniformity (think "roundness" and you'll be close) - much tighter than tires supplied through tire dealers. As a result, there will be a lot of tires that do not meet the OE specs, but are otherwise OK. These are called "Downstreams" - as in, these are tires downstream of the culling process.

Because of the HUGE volume of tires produced when supplying an OE, there may be a large amount of downstream tires that need to find a home. To give you an idea, the company I used to work for supplied over a million tires a year for 3 years straight of one particular size/pattern. Even a 90% yield would have resulted in 100,000 tires per year downstream. That's a lot of tires.

And since the name on the sidewall is fixed BEFORE the tires are measured for acceptance, they are stuck with the name regardless.

What appears to have happened is that Firestone (Bridgestone) has chosen to distinguish these OE tires from their replacement market lines by the name on the sidewall - EXCEPT for their own internal outlet, where they use the name for a whole line.

HOWEVER, if you were to purchase a tire in the same size offered by Tire Rack, you would get the exact same tire as Tire Rack offers - BUT - it would have a different tread pattern that the rest of the tires in the line.

And I think the point that is getting confused here is that normally a line of tires is identical in construction and tread pattern - EXCEPT for OE tires, which are unique in themselves and different from any other tire in the line. - and if I had to hazard a guess, the line of tires existed first and the guys designing OE tires used that name because it was already there.

What I find very interesting about the OE tire business is that otherwise knowledgeable vehicle engineers would think that an existing line of tires of the same name adds credence to the tire even though they know it is uniquely designed for their application.

 

[Papa Bear]

Can a tire dealer get OE spec tires if he requests them from a company?

Is there a premium price for those tires from a dealer?

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
Can a tire dealer get OE spec tires if he requests them from a company?

Is there a premium price for those tires from a dealer?


No, tire manufacturers don't allow tire dealers to access the OE stock.

- and I should amend what I wrote to add that it is not uncommon for the downstreams to include tires that were formerly designated for OE use - due to the sales volumes. Plus it is also not unusual for the downstreams to include tires are meet the OE uniformity specs and fail for some minor appearance issue.

So it isn't as though the downstreams are the dregs, but they certainly aren't the "cream".

 

[Papa Bear]

But getting the "OE" tires from a dealer would be a craap-shoot.

The dealer wouldn't even know then which of his new shipment of tires meet OE and which don't .....

Is this correct?

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
But getting the "OE" tires from a dealer would be a craap-shoot.

The dealer wouldn't even know then which of his new shipment of tires meet OE and which don't .....

Is this correct?


I assume that the reason a dealer would want the OE tires would be to reduce the likelihood of a vibration, so he would order ONLY OE level tires, so he would know what he ordered.

Of course, if he just placed an order as normal and the tire manufacturer "salted" OE tire in the mix, there may be some indicators - like OE tires will have some sort of radial high point (RHHP) mark, while the downstreams might not. The difference can not be generalized as there are considerable differences between what vehicle manufacturers specify for the RHHP marks and some use the same marking system some tire manufacturers use (and not all tire manufacturers use the same marks).

Nevertheless, a tire dealer CAN NOT specifically order OE level tires.

 

[Papa Bear]

Thanks

 

[Hokiefyd]

This is why I generally prefer to order tires that are not OE tires. As an example, the Michelin Defender or the Continental ProContact Eco Plus. Neither of these tire names comes as original equipment on anything (yet). So there's never any confusion on what you're getting. Are you getting the tread pattern you think you ordered? Are you getting an OE version or the aftermarket version? Sometimes you don't want the OE version, but have no real way of guaranteeing that you don't get it.