Honda FULL synthetic vs Mobil 1??

[Gabe]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: Gabe
High VI oils are more prone to shearing and increased TAN. A higher VI doesn't guarantee a better oil.


Care to explain that?


Sure.

In order to get a smaller viscosity spread, a higher percentage of VII can be used. Those VII are very susceptible to shearing and oxidation. Walmart's Super Tech oil has a VI of 168; PU has a VI of 165. Despite a higher VI, Super Tech is not superior to PU.

Afton Knowledge Sharing

 

[Phishin]

Originally Posted By: wag123

I have been told that Hondas run much quieter with 5W-30 in them. I am considering switching to this when the warranty expires as it is Honda's recommended grade everywhere else in the world except North America.


My 2010 Accord runs MUCH quiter on my M1 mix. 1.4 quarts M1 0w40 and 2.8 quarts M1 0w20 AFE. I really like the price, convenience, proven performance...coupled with my own observations.

 

[Phishin]

Originally Posted By: Gabe
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: Gabe
High VI oils are more prone to shearing and increased TAN. A higher VI doesn't guarantee a better oil.


Care to explain that?


Sure.

In order to get a smaller viscosity spread, a higher percentage of VII can be used. Those VII are very susceptible to shearing and oxidation. Walmart's Super Tech oil has a VI of 168; PU has a VI of 165. Despite a higher VI, Super Tech is not superior to PU.

Afton Knowledge Sharing


But its been shown times and time again that the Idemitsu 0w20's are about shear-proof....they use a new lube of stable VII's.

 

[Gabe]

Originally Posted By: Phishin
But its been shown times and time again that the Idemitsu 0w20's are about shear-proof....they use a new lube of stable VII's.


Idemitsu is probably a good oil, but we cannot deny the drawbacks of using more VII. In order to get better shear stability, an oil must contain more chemically smaller VII. That will decrease high temperature performance and increase oxidation.

 

[Roob]

Better/faster lubricity and fluidity?
I would say that an improvement could be seen especially in the cold starts. I saw one.
When I had M1afe 0w20 in my accord the winter starts were quite sluggish. This was in the -10 and lower temps and when the car had sat a day or two.
The engine just didn't seem to run as smoothly as it should and I didn't see any mpg improvements.
I changed out the oil to the new Mazda oil in my sig and it was night and day.
Quick turnovers in cold temps, smooth effortless acceleration, quiet running engine and a big increase in mpg.
For me, when I buy an oil, I want the most bang for my buck. My priorities for oil is add pack, cold start viscosity, Vi and synthetic. The Mazda, TGMO and Honda all have those qualities and are priced well and available.
Each to their own I guess. If M1 works for you then great, but if you do get a chance to try either of the above try it.

 

[Roob]

That's a nice looking mix.
Have you ever added TGMO to it?

 

[Roob]

Well I don't believe a high Vi is the end all be all, but its an effective/important component.
If I can get high Vi, 40c viscosity below 40(Mazda is 35) strong moly add pack and full synthetic I am happy....
I just follow the science and the advice from the experts here, so far neither have steered me wrong and I am reaping the benefits.
In my case the engine did notice a difference, much better cold starts, smoother engine, quieter engine, mpg increase.
Same thing for the transmission when I drained and filled with DW1+lubegard,, Big difference from Z1.
What works for one doesn't work for all.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Gabe
Originally Posted By: Phishin
But its been shown times and time again that the Idemitsu 0w20's are about shear-proof....they use a new lube of stable VII's.


Idemitsu is probably a good oil, but we cannot deny the drawbacks of using more VII. In order to get better shear stability, an oil must contain more chemically smaller VII. That will decrease high temperature performance and increase oxidation.

You couldn't be more mistaken.

The new type of very high VI multi-branched PMA polymers used to formulate the 200+ 0W-20s are very shear stable and actually require less actual polymer vs the much lower VI copolymers that are typically used.
For example the Toyota 0W-20 (216 VI) has proven to be more shear stable than M1 AFE 0W-20.

For the OP, The CoP made Honda full syn' 0W-20 (177 VI) is not a very high VI oil although it is higher than M1 0W-20 (173).
Honda/Acura Canada uses the Idemitsu made 0W-20 which has a higher 197 VI.
Yes I would prefer the Honda 0W-20 over M1 AFE but the oil I'd really recommend would be TGMO 0W-20. Another OEM oil to consider would be the Idemitsu made Mazda moly 0W-20 (221 VI).
The main advantage of these very high VI oils is that they are lighter on start-up meaning they are a more efficient lubricant.

 

[Jay1981]

Do you plan on changing the oil yourself? M1 is around $25 for a 5qt jug at walmart, and Honda oil is only available from a Honda dealer, and the syn probably costs $10 plus per quart. I'd go with the M1.

 

[Falken]

Mazda dealer 0W20 should run you around $6.50 a Litre.

I have heard some reports that some dealers are charging $10+ a Litre for this Idemitsu product.

The next step would be to try a Subaru dealer. I believe they use Idemitsu as a supplier as well.

I am hoping that what Caterham says applies to the Montreal region and Honda/Acura uses Idemitsu for their SN 0W20.

I know Acura would give it to me for $6.50 a Litre, that is where I got my SM Acura 0W20 last Fall.

I am hoping that I am not disappointed in the cold starts with Pennzoil Ultra SN 5W20, Acura SM 0W20 was great.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Falken

I am hoping that what Caterham says applies to the Montreal region and Honda/Acura uses Idemitsu for their SN 0W20.

I know Acura would give it to me for $6.50 a Litre, that is where I got my SM Acura 0W20 last Fall.

I am hoping that I am not disappointed in the cold starts with Pennzoil Ultra SN 5W20, Acura SM 0W20 was great.

The last time I checked, a couple of months ago, the Idemitsu made Honda/Acura bottled 0W-20 was still the SM GF-4 oil. The SN 0W-20 supplier to Subaru is not same high VI high moly oil which is probably why Honda Canada hasn't switched to it.
I'm hoping when Honda Canada does finally start using the SN oil they use Idemitsu's most recent high moly very high VI formulation that's supplied to Mazda USA.

I know you got a deal on the PU 5W-20 but it is a heavier than necessary oil for the Fit which comes with a FF of 0W-16.
The best current synthetic 20wt oil deal in Canada is TMGO 0W-20 at $5.65/L or $25/5L jug.