Pennzoil Ultra 5W-30 - 2012 Maxima VQ3.5 4900 mile

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Here's my UOA. 4900 miles on the oil. Ran from approximately 7,500 to 12,500 on the odometer. The copper is a bit concerning since everything else was quite normal.

RNxxRrb.jpg

Any thoughts?

Code:


KEVIN: Everything looks great in this sample from your Maxima until you get down to

copper. Normally 117 ppm would be a potential problem level of wear at brass/bronze

parts, and it's still worth watching, but this is still a pretty new engine and copper

does tend to take a while to wash out of new engines. For now, we suggest you just run

3,000-4,000 miles and check back. Copper will hopefully improve on its own. No fuel or

coolant showed up in this 5W/30 and the oil and air filters kept insolubles and silicon

low. Assuming copper drops, you'll be in good shape.



MI/HR on Oil 4900

MI/HR on Unit 12,403

Sample Date 7/07/13

Make Up Oil Added 0 qts



ALUMINUM 5

CHROMIUM 0

IRON 14

COPPER 117

LEAD 3

TIN 0

MOLYBDENUM 62

NICKEL 1

MANGANESE 2

SILVER 0

TITANIUM 2

POTASSIUM 2

BORON 69

SILICON 16

SODIUM 20

CALCIUM 2592

MAGNESIUM 42

PHOSPHORUS 836

ZINC 938

BARIUM 0



SUS Vis @ 210°F 55.7

cSt Vis @ 100°C 8.99

Flashpoint in °F 435

Fuel %
Antifreeze % 0.0

Water % 0.0

Insolubles % 0.1

TBN

TAN

ISO Code
 
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You're joking about the copper right? With no trend yet and it being SO new I'd wait until about 25k before judging anything.

Looks great! Hopefully it won't burn oil like past VQs!
 
Originally Posted By: brandini
You're joking about the copper right? With no trend yet and it being SO new I'd wait until about 25k before judging anything.

Looks great! Hopefully it won't burn oil like past VQs!


Actually I wasn't joking. It seemed so high above the average that it concerned me a little. I know that early UOA's normally come back high due to engine break in, but 117 vs. the 6 average seemed really high. Your reaction makes it sound like its not something to worry about until I get a few more miles on the car, so I'll take your word for it.

I traded in my '03 maxima for this one, and that was an oil burner. I think Nissan fixed the oil burning problem not long after the '03 models, so I should be fine with the 2012......hopefully.
 
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The copper is not a problem yet. Wait for 2-3 more changes then re-evaluate. The Nissan engine in your Maxima, the VQ35DE, has a VERY VERY long and highly decorated history. The only problems people seem to have with them are modifications, oil consumption, and noise. Pretty minor issues. I have one, works great.
 
Does your VQ35DE have an engine oil cooler? My Pathfinder does, I'd imagine that's where some of the copper is coming from. FWIW, my Pathfinder does not consume any appreciable amount of oil with 5k OCIs, currently have 144k miles on it.
 
UOAs this soon are genearlly worthless, unless you like seeing break-in noise, etc.

If you're going to do such short OCIs, then dino fluids are every bit as capable, will cost far less, and you can "flush" out the Cu as it normalizes.

Engine is fine.
Total waste of PU.
 
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Nice report on your young engine. The oil sheared out of grade, so 5k oci's might be the way to go if you stay with the PU. Establishing a wear trend early is a good idea too. The Cu will settle down soon. Thanks for posting!
 
Originally Posted By: Towncivilian
Does your VQ35DE have an engine oil cooler? My Pathfinder does, I'd imagine that's where some of the copper is coming from. FWIW, my Pathfinder does not consume any appreciable amount of oil with 5k OCIs, currently have 144k miles on it.


I believe it has an oil cooler, but I'm not 100% sure. That's definitely a possibility. Thanks.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
UOAs this soon are genearlly worthless, unless you like seeing break-in noise, etc.

If you're going to do such short OCIs, then dino fluids are every bit as capable, will cost far less, and you can "flush" out the Cu as it normalizes.

Engine is fine.
Total waste of PU.


I know that the VQ's are typically quite hard on oils, so I wanted to see how it was holding up with regards shearing and to see if I could get longer than the 5,000k OCI's. As Indymac indicated, it sheared slightly out of spec so I'll likely stick to 5,000k OCI's for now. Perhaps I'll "downgrade" to Platinum and see if that performs similarly to save a few bucks each change.

Thanks for all of the input guys. I've done some reading over the years about OCI's and taking samples, but I'm definitely still a newbie at it. So I really appreciate the responses.

BTW.....i don't see a multi-quote function that I see on other sites. Am I missing it or can I really only quote one post at a time here?

Thanks again.
 
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Originally Posted By: kgallerie
I know that the VQ's are typically quite hard on oils, so I wanted to see how it was holding up with regards shearing and to see if I could get longer than the 5,000k OCI's. As Indymac indicated, it sheared slightly out of spec so I'll likely stick to 5,000k OCI's for now. Perhaps I'll "downgrade" to Platinum and see if that performs similarly to save a few bucks each change.



Several things to note:
- A "5,000k" mile OCI would be a five-million-mile OCI run; very impressive if you can pull that off (that's just a typo I presume
grin.gif
).

- I'm not saying dino oil will do "better" at protecting your engine, but what I am saying is that is it HIGHLY likely that it won't do any worse. I'm sure the OCI duration of 5k miles does not REQUIRE synthetics by the OEM. Therefore, any wear and cleanliness protection would likely be easily filled by a large manner of qualified conventional fluids.

- Until you run a dino, for comparison and contrast, you'll have no idea what what is satisfactory; you've got no baseline to judge wear by. You can look at macro data results; that is what I predicate my information on, to you.

- Many lubes shear after some period of time, but that does not automatically assure some form of equipment degredation. Shearing and oxidation tend to offset each other somewhat; you cannot assume that a lube that didn't shear in vis, didn't also thicken by combustion byproducts and ox. My point is that, regardless of the shearing, the wear rates (although certainly shifting in this "new" engine) are not appreciably effected by the thinner lube. A lube that shifts WAY out of grade is a cause to watch for wear or sludge traits, but one that only shifts slightly is totally normal and not of any concern whatsoever.


In short, you are presuming something that is likely untrue. You are assuming that if these syns (EdgeTi and PU) only can do this well, then a dino oil must, by default, do worse. Nothing could be further from the truth, but you'll never be able to convince yourself otherwise until you actually try it.

Although the engine series is completely differnt, check out the data streams from 2010_FX4; see how he discovered that dinos are EVERY bit as capable as his PU runs.
 
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Thanks for the detailed and informative response. Yes....5,000k is 5 million miles....brain [censored] from being crazy swamped at work
crazy.gif
Sorry about that.

I am by no means saying that dino oil sucks and that its not capable of protecting my engine well. I figured I would start safe, and use one of the better oils to test out what I might use for an OCI. The one set of results I have indicate that for now, a 5,000m OCI appears to be reasonable. Like you said, its only one sample, but its all I have to go on for now.

Based on these results, I may think about going down a notch to PP and see how that compares. If the results from the PP come back just as good, I would consider giving dino oil a shot to see if it will perform as well. Perhaps I am going about this backwards, and should have started with dino oil and worked my way up?

Even though I know dino oils can perform on par with some (if not most) synthetic oils, I may stick with the synthetic anyway to satisfy my OCD with my new car (at least I can admit it, right
laugh.gif
). I change the oil 4 or 5 times a year, so the extra $10 per oil change isnt an earth shattering difference to me.

Thanks again for all the great info. I'll report back after I get my results from blackstone after my next oil change.


edit: I just noticed this site censors the 4 letter f word used to describe the release of gas from your rear end.....LOL! Thats funny.
 
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Fair enough. For reference, I have a sample of PYB 5w-30 for a UOA from my G37 when I get the chance. I ran the PYB for the majority of the G's life and was very satisfied with it.
 
Originally Posted By: kgallerie
Thanks for the detailed and informative response. Yes....5,000k is 5 million miles....brain [censored] from being crazy swamped at work
crazy.gif
Sorry about that.

I am by no means saying that dino oil sucks and that its not capable of protecting my engine well. I figured I would start safe, and use one of the better oils to test out what I might use for an OCI. The one set of results I have indicate that for now, a 5,000m OCI appears to be reasonable. Like you said, its only one sample, but its all I have to go on for now.

Based on these results, I may think about going down a notch to PP and see how that compares. If the results from the PP come back just as good, I would consider giving dino oil a shot to see if it will perform as well. Perhaps I am going about this backwards, and should have started with dino oil and worked my way up?

Even though I know dino oils can perform on par with some (if not most) synthetic oils, I may stick with the synthetic anyway to satisfy my OCD with my new car (at least I can admit it, right
laugh.gif
). I change the oil 4 or 5 times a year, so the extra $10 per oil change isnt an earth shattering difference to me.

Thanks again for all the great info. I'll report back after I get my results from blackstone after my next oil change.


edit: I just noticed this site censors the 4 letter f word used to describe the release of gas from your rear end.....LOL! Thats funny.


Wear rates per mile will be equal between a syn and conventional until the conventional is depleted. So conventional protects just as well as synthetic its just synthetic lasts longer before it begins to sludge.
 
Here's a couple more updated UOA's. The copper is still quite high. I did go 7500 miles on this run so the copper per mile is less. It appears to be tapering down, however its still way above the normal level. Now that I have 30k miles on the car, is it something to start worrying about? Any ideas what might be causing it?

I know there is an issue with these engines having to do bearing knock. Is it possible that a worn/bad engine bearing would cause excess copper?

2012MAXIMA-092014_zpsefed79ef.jpg

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks.
 
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I wouldn't be too concerned about the copper personally. Also it looks like there is not much change in the oil from 5k and 7.5k OCIs so 7.5k is perfectly fine.

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Wear rates per mile will be equal between a syn and conventional until the conventional is depleted. So conventional protects just as well as synthetic its just synthetic lasts longer before it begins to sludge.


I personally disagree with this and some of the other posters also saying dino is the same as synthetic at short OCIs. Synthetics don't just provide longer OCIs, they are all-round higher performance oil.

Dino provides good protection, but I feel synthetic will provide superior protection at all times, not just at long OCIs. Whether that difference is significant, I don't know, but I feel the more miles on the engine the bigger the difference will be.
 
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
I wouldn't be too concerned about the copper personally. Also it looks like there is not much change in the oil from 5k and 7.5k OCIs so 7.5k is perfectly fine.

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Wear rates per mile will be equal between a syn and conventional until the conventional is depleted. So conventional protects just as well as synthetic its just synthetic lasts longer before it begins to sludge.


I personally disagree with this and some of the other posters also saying dino is the same as synthetic at short OCIs. Synthetics don't just provide longer OCIs, they are all-round higher performance oil.

Dino provides good protection, but I feel synthetic will provide superior protection at all times, not just at long OCIs. Whether that difference is significant, I don't know, but I feel the more miles on the engine the bigger the difference will be.


I disagree with Clevy as well. I don't feel like typing out why but I do disagree. I'll let this do my talking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5SngB0mAUQ
 
Originally Posted By: Throt
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
I wouldn't be too concerned about the copper personally. Also it looks like there is not much change in the oil from 5k and 7.5k OCIs so 7.5k is perfectly fine.

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Wear rates per mile will be equal between a syn and conventional until the conventional is depleted. So conventional protects just as well as synthetic its just synthetic lasts longer before it begins to sludge.


I personally disagree with this and some of the other posters also saying dino is the same as synthetic at short OCIs. Synthetics don't just provide longer OCIs, they are all-round higher performance oil.

Dino provides good protection, but I feel synthetic will provide superior protection at all times, not just at long OCIs. Whether that difference is significant, I don't know, but I feel the more miles on the engine the bigger the difference will be.


I disagree with Clevy as well. I don't feel like typing out why but I do disagree. I'll let this do my talking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5SngB0mAUQ


I disagree as well. Even though Synthetic oils have longer life, even at short OCIs like 3-7K(miles)quality synthetics have several benefits over dino.
 
I agree with Clevy. Engine teardowns have proven that synthetics don't provide less wear or better protection than conventionals. All of those videos like the Pennzoil one are pure marketing....a pretty girl advertising a product.
 
Hello Kgallerie – what you report in your post concerns us. Excessive copper levels in your oil could very well be indicating worn engine bearings. In fact, we have found a technical bulletin from Nissan specifically pertaining to “#1 main bearing knock noise.” Most importantly, the Nissan technical bulletin states that a new #1 bearing (that is one grade thicker than the old one) must be installed. With that said, we would recommend taking your vehicle to your dealer so that you can discuss your engine performance/oil analysis findings with them. - The Pennzoil Team
 
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