I want to like K&N ...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
Messages
725
Location
Idaho Former FL
Ive got a k&n drop in filter for my silverado but everyone says they let too much dirt in. "I didnt buy the filter it was already in the truck when i got it". So for no reason at all, i got a k&n cleaning kit from az for 15$ to try it out. Needless to say i did not leave it in the truck. After i cleaned and oiled it, i let it dry for a while. Before i took it back out to the truck, i for some reason held it up to a light, bad idea. I saw how much [censored] it looked like it would let through. You could see right through the joker. I want to like k&n, but as the saying around here goes, " why would you pour sand into your engine", anyways-
Thats why I dont like K&N. I have been using fram air filters and probably will try a purator next round.
18.gif
18.gif
18.gif
 
Amsoil sold ones similar to K&N about 10 years ago and I got one. But latter decided (with high silicon) that I should go back to a normal paper air filter.

It would be nice for someone who changes from a K&N to a paper filter to do 2 or 3 UOAs and see if the silicon does indeed go down as we expect it to.
 
I went with an AEM Dryflow, because some oil analysis show that it is extremely effective at stopping dirt, and has the benefit of being recyclable.
 
Yup, it's hard to beat the efficacy and cost effectiveness of a paper filter. I also like knowing that every time I change it, it's a brand new filter in there.

thumbsup2.gif
 
Cummins used to deny warranty claims for most engine failures if they had a k&n on their ram. It would allow the dirt to actually over time sharpen the piston rings.
 
K&N filters are good for what they were designed for, to protect racing engines from big dirt that would stop them from running if the engine ingested it. For their purpose, they are fabulous and they probably do reduce intake restriction. It's the same for racing engine oil, it's built for a specific purpose and using it for something else will not give you an "edge" or "higher performance." The humble paper filter is a marvel of materiel science. It does it's job through thousands of heat and cold cycles, and unless wet, will continue to work without service or care for thousands of miles. Get a paper filter and throw the racing one away, sorry that you wasted $15, but you'll only do it once.
 
Originally Posted By: 2cool
K&N filters are good for what they were designed for, to protect racing engines from big dirt that would stop them from running if the engine ingested it. For their purpose, they are fabulous and they probably do reduce intake restriction. It's the same for racing engine oil, it's built for a specific purpose and using it for something else will not give you an "edge" or "higher performance." The humble paper filter is a marvel of materiel science. It does it's job through thousands of heat and cold cycles, and unless wet, will continue to work without service or care for thousands of miles. Get a paper filter and throw the racing one away, sorry that you wasted $15, but you'll only do it once.


Designed to do?
Aren't they designed to filter air. And where does this racing idea come from? Aren't they designed to be a re-useable air liter. Never have I seen anywhere that they are a racing only filter,where did you dig up that info?
 
KN oiled filters is obsolete technology sold to the masses via very high budget marketing hype. Ignore the hype and use a high quality paper filter to protect your engine.
 
Originally Posted By: earlyre
^ they are marketed as "performance filters"...


Which means what exactly? Where does racing come in,as they are supposedly designed for,as stated above.
The only real improvement is at wide open throttle,otherwise at part throttle a paper filter isn't restrictive unless its completely clogged.
The only free flowing filters worth buying are the Amsoil branded ones. They filter as good as paper does,which to me is of the utmost importance.
Why ave a filter if it isn't filtering. Its as stupid as buying those re-useable oil filters. Gravel traps.
Paying extra for less efficiency is absolute lunacy.
 
I have used k&n filters on 3 vehicles and have nearly 1 million miles between them. No i haven't done a UOA, but i haven't experienced any issues either.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: 2cool
K&N filters are good for what they were designed for, to protect racing engines from big dirt that would stop them from running if the engine ingested it. For their purpose, they are fabulous and they probably do reduce intake restriction. It's the same for racing engine oil, it's built for a specific purpose and using it for something else will not give you an "edge" or "higher performance." The humble paper filter is a marvel of materiel science. It does it's job through thousands of heat and cold cycles, and unless wet, will continue to work without service or care for thousands of miles. Get a paper filter and throw the racing one away, sorry that you wasted $15, but you'll only do it once.


YUPP.. K&N is for racing... not a everyday car you drive to work and to the store and drive the kids around... They are for racing.. at least the AIR FILTERS... The Oil Filters are different

Didnt some Motorcycle guys come up with K&N filters just to race ?
 
Originally Posted By: bvance554
I have used k&n filters on 3 vehicles and have nearly 1 million miles between them. No i haven't done a UOA, but i haven't experienced any issues either.


+1

I use one and have no issues. I dont buy into the hype of the performance at all but it does offer less restrictive airflow (filter is half as thick). Regarding efficiency, i dont think it makes much difference. Anything that goes in the engine, the oil will bind the dirt and leave during an oil change. Its not as if it lets ina huge amount of dirt. To me, i compare it to using a basic fram oil filter, likely traps 80-90% of particles. I know people who have used cheap fram filters and never had any engine problems and im talking 20 years ago. At the end of the day use what you prefer and call it a day.
 
I think it is pretty well documented that the K&N lets more fine particles through the filter. What I have always wondered is if these particles are so fine that they have no ill effect. I am not saying they do or dont. I just dont know. I would imagine that fine particles get past the fuel filter all the time. And we dont seem to be as concerned about them. Just curious.
 
The fine particles have a negative effect on the engine and the lubricant. It's mostly about the volume of them. An engine pumps a lot of air and if it's laden with fines, you can get a high rate of oil contamination (past the rings into the oil and fines get past the rings faster and easier). In the oil, it's the contamination levels that is partially (if not mostly) dictate how much harm is being done. The fines are often too small for a normal full flow filter to catch a high percentage.

Some people live in area with relatively clean air or in an area where the fines are uncommon and they do just great with a low efficiency filter. Oiled cotton gauze filter in general, certainly K&Ns, are in what is generally considered by the automotive industry the "adequate" efficiency range. They vary somewhat depending on how many layers of gauze are used. The K&N filters that use three layers (most are two) have increased restriction but better efficiency and vice versa (I am not current on which have two or three layers... not many are three and they are designed for HD use IIRC). All the passenger cars filters I know of are two.

My take on why this is important now is that when the K&N was designed, air filters were either inefficient and restrictive (oil bath) or just restrictive (early cellulose). Plus the intake systems were inefficient ant cost power due to restriction. A K&N was a great boon then to almost anything and the filter efficiency was on par with the OE and the aftermarket. On top of that, the OCIs were 3K or less, the old flat tappet, Morse chain, poorly machined engines shed lots of metal... so what did a little extra dirt hurt.

Today, engines run cleaner, contaminate the oil less, shed drastically less metal via normal wear (in most cases, there are exceptions) and so they can run longer OCIs at lower levels of contamination than ever before. Lubricant design has improved enough to drastically reduce wear. Air and oil filters have improved so that they can maintain the oil at a high state of cleanliness. There is little power to be gained with a free flow filter so all you are doing by introducing a lower efficiency air filter into the equation is to potentially contaminate your oil faster, increase wear and shorten oil life. It won't be by a lot, unless your daily commute is akin to the Baja 1000, but you may have taken several backwards steps. Depends on your locale.

Also, OCG filters are fragile and vulnerable to improper cleaning. Clean it wrong and you could go from 94% efficiency on fine test dust (typical) dust to 60%.
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
The fine particles have a negative effect on the engine and the lubricant. It's mostly about the volume of them. An engine pumps a lot of air and if it's laden with fines, you can get a high rate of oil contamination (past the rings into the oil and fines get past the rings faster and easier). In the oil, it's the contamination levels that is partially (if not mostly) dictate how much harm is being done. The fines are often too small for a normal full flow filter to catch a high percentage.

Some people live in area with relatively clean air or in an area where the fines are uncommon and they do just great with a low efficiency filter. Oiled cotton gauze filter in general, certainly K&Ns, are in what is generally considered by the automotive industry the "adequate" efficiency range. They vary somewhat depending on how many layers of gauze are used. The K&N filters that use three layers (most are two) have increased restriction but better efficiency and vice versa (I am not current on which have two or three layers... not many are three and they are designed for HD use IIRC). All the passenger cars filters I know of are two.

My take on why this is important now is that when the K&N was designed, air filters were either inefficient and restrictive (oil bath) or just restrictive (early cellulose). Plus the intake systems were inefficient ant cost power due to restriction. A K&N was a great boon then to almost anything and the filter efficiency was on par with the OE and the aftermarket. On top of that, the OCIs were 3K or less, the old flat tappet, Morse chain, poorly machined engines shed lots of metal... so what did a little extra dirt hurt.

Today, engines run cleaner, contaminate the oil less, shed drastically less metal via normal wear (in most cases, there are exceptions) and so they can run longer OCIs at lower levels of contamination than ever before. Lubricant design has improved enough to drastically reduce wear. Air and oil filters have improved so that they can maintain the oil at a high state of cleanliness. There is little power to be gained with a free flow filter so all you are doing by introducing a lower efficiency air filter into the equation is to potentially contaminate your oil faster, increase wear and shorten oil life. It won't be by a lot, unless your daily commute is akin to the Baja 1000, but you may have taken several backwards steps. Depends on your locale.

Also, OCG filters are fragile and vulnerable to improper cleaning. Clean it wrong and you could go from 94% efficiency on fine test dust (typical) dust to 60%.


super informative and helpful post - thanks
 
Thanks Jim Allen for the excellent information. I only run a K&N on one vhicle, an antique motorcycle, for which there is no OEM filter available. I dont live in a dusty environment and only ride the bike about 1500 miles between oil changes, which is once a year. So I wont worry about that one. On my other vehicles I just stick with Wix air filters and forget it.
 
JA touched on what I believe is the primary reason for the K&N negative buzz. It's operator error pure and simple. Too much oil, too little oil, improper cleaning, etc.

These days why bother?
 
I can't understand why people are always cleaning and re-oiling their K&N air filters.

I've had my Fram AirHOG on the car since 2005 and it still looks as new as the day I bought it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top