BMW filter 'philosophy' vs old fashion canister filters

[pgtr]

Now I can recall in the old days when we had those big old metal 'canisters' that tended to leak and we'd disassemble them, pop in a new cartridge and reassemble. V8s in teh 50s had them. The last I recall seeing one was on British Leyland Triumphs in the 70s.

Then the 'modern' spin on canister came along. It was simple effective and still cheap.

But then we got a '97 328iS. 1st I had to get over the $30 or $40 price for a humongous socket from BMW to remove the plastic 'canister'. I neatly avoided this buy buying a humongous front spindle socket from a parts store for $6 (in your face BMW!!!).

For those of you unfamiliar w/ BMW it is essentially a return to the old canister style filter and all you buy and install is a simple refill cartridge (yes you get to touch the paper and count pleats and all that junk to you heart's content.

Now I sat back and thought about this. The arguments for it are:
- More environmentally friendly (fewer throway maerials)
- BMW controls the engineering of the filter mechanism such as bypass and drainback and such since that is all part of the permanent filter equipment
- reduces cost (in theory).

Arguments against:
- Few filter companies support these
- Requires humongous socket (that was BMWs intentional choice as they strive to make the car difficult for the DIYer to do PM and thus coerce you into bringing in for just about anything)
- Is dramatically more expensive for the filter in reality.

I'm curious what other's thoughts are on this retro approach to filters. If anybody other than BMW did it I think I'd like it. In theory there is no need for the special humongous BMW socket and again in theory, the filter should be cheaper than a canister filter by all rights (but of course we're talking BMW).

------

On a related note, it seems BMW filtes are OEMed under thier label by the typical and usual suspects from Germany like Mann or Mahle etc. Id' guess $20+ for a genuine BMW paper cartridge from BMW dealer. You can get the same filters in a Mann or Mahle or whatever box for probably mid to high teens say mail order or something. You can also get the same Mann/Mahle/etc filters or at least annonymous "Made in Germany" filters under common US brands like Fram et al. I'm certain the annymous ones are made by the usual Deutsch suspects.

Recently I was surprised to see the STP filter to not have the usual "Made in Germany" but rather "Made in Korea" label. Huh? That one surprised me. But it was down to $13 (an all time low) and that's all the store had - worked for me.

The only notable difference I can recall was that the Korean filter (STP) had a hard plastic and rubber seals on the ends of the refill cartridge and the German filtes always had heavy paper w/ felt seals on the ends.

Oh and for that ~$15 paper cartridge - they do also include a new o-ring for the plastic cannister and crush washer for the drain plug. For $15 - gee thanks - how about a magazine subscription while you're at it? Step up to one of these if you're just used to your avg ol' American car and you realize you're not in Kansas anymore!

At least I can hit 10K mi between changes.

 

[Ken4]

Mercedes is the same. Canister with replaceable cartridge. But you dont need a special wrench to open up the canister.

 

[joatmon]

My father-in-law's Volvo is the same. He had to buy a special wrench from Volvo. I think this is a Europen thing. Will it spread? My father-in-law didn't like this at first, but since he's paid for the wrench, he seems to think this is a better system.

I've been purchasing BMW filters for 16 years. They charge ~ $5.50 for the old style filter. They seem to be very well make, so I always use the OEM version.

 

[FowVay]

The filters are usually priced at $8.50 at the dealership and you can mail-order them for around $6.00 (for E46 models). That huge 36mm socket that you use to remove the plastic cap is available at every Sears store for $6.99 so it isn't such a big deal. BMW, Mercedes, And Volkswagen use this type of filter in various applications. Mann, Mahle-Knecht, and Hengst are the prime suppliers of these filters and they are all very high quality. In europe much of the waste is incinerated and with oil filters like this there is no waste to be thrown into the land fills.

It might be a throwback to the past but I actually like it because you simply remove the filter from the top of the housing with no oil pouring all over the place and you can easily inspect it and the housing for visible debris.

 

[pgtr]

As I said before, I actually like the design too and would like to see more manufacturers adopting it. However before I could fully embrace it there are 2 dilemmas I'd like to see overcome:

1) But the filters really should be LESS than canister filters.

2) Nor is there any excuse for that humongous socket or other 'special' tools. They could easily be implemented for maintenance w/ common tools. I know this is against BMW's core philosphy about maintenance but most other manufacturers seem to make reasonable allowances for DIY maintenance (Even MB it seems!).

Those two points being made and getting off my soap box - I think this has a lot of merit for oil filter designs of the future. It will be interesting to see if this approach takes hold in either Asian or North American cars.

Somebody mentioned in a previous posted reply that got DELETED to use a filter wrench. That was probably the 1st thing I considered but they definately will not fit this particular car.

I'll have to eat a little crow on the price thing. After seeing the above posts I called a new BMW center that just opened. They were only about $10 something. Definately cheaper than I recall but that's still (but still too high for a simple paper cartridge IMO). Anyway my bad.

I can find them cheaper online than anywhere else but I won't pay $6 - $12 to have a couple 4 oz delivered on sheer principal. Besides it negates the price price advantage. I can easily beat the price at a local parts store (or dealer!

). Post a link if ya got one!

On that pig socket, the price Sears quoted me (had to be special ordered) was something in the mid teens if I remember (been a while). While I felt a Craftsman socket would be overkill for removing a piece of plastic, that was the 1st place I checked on. I ultimately found a perfect socket at just about any auto parts store in the section for front end spindle nuts. It was about $5 or $6. Still it's rediculous overkill and I had to do a fair bit of searching to get the dang thing (under my nose all along!). It's my S.O.'s car and she uses that pig of a socket in her Aerobic workouts - no kidding! Remember this is only a plastic 'cap' to the filter that only has to be snugged up is all.

I'd appreciate a link to any online retailers that offer these filters at reasonable prices and do NOT turn around and gouge you on the shipping. That would be great!

thanks!
-T

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

Well, last time I checked, UPS doesn't deliver for free, and there is an extra buck added on for residential deliveries. And, the Postman doesn't work free, either. And, it does cost a bit to have boxes, packing material, and tape around.
Suppose you are paying someone $10 an hour, and it takes him/her 5 minutes to do the paperwork, wrap, address the package, etc. That's about another buck, plus medical, leave, social security, etc.

Now, I'll certainly agree that some places charge an outrageous shipping and handling (mostly handling) fee.

 

[dickwells]

Now wait just a cotton pickin minute all. My recollection of these was that the filter was always dripping oil allover when removed and the housing also had to be scrubbed out of dirty oil for us oil obsessed gearheads. My experience with cutting open unit filters says that there is sometimes sludge etc in the bottom of the filter. Cleaning it out is also another opportunity to leave fibers, threads, etc which will go right to the bearings. Maybe the setup is different because I think those old ones were partial flow as I remember.

 

[RalphPWood]

I've sold a dozen or so submicronic bypass filters to VW owners that talk about the cars having canisters. I thought it was a joke. I lucked out with a Honda road bike about 20 years ago. The gasket was the same size as a Chevy V8. I used a Chevrolet sandwich adapter. I replaced the Honda center bolt with a 3/4 - 16 thread nipple. I used a Ford FL-1A to strain out the big stuff and a submicronic bypass filter to clean the oil. Some old timers figured since the full flow filter is almost useless why not just leave the cartridge out of the canister and let the Amsoil, Frantz, Motor Guard, Gulf Coast or other submicronic bypass filter clean the oil.
When you are dealing with a motor cycle with the same oil in the engine and transmission it's best to use both filters. The full flow filter has little value after a good engine is broken in. The bottom line is someone is spending less to make the cartridge and pocketing the difference. I paid almost 30.00 for a fuel filter cartridge for a Ford Powerstroke once. It shouldn't have cost over 2.00. There were no other parts houses near. I don't usually get ripped off. I'm pretty street wise. I'm sure there are people that would say wow it must be good it cost 30.00. Actually all I needed was a cannister gasket.

Ralph

 

[pgtr]

Hey ****,

$6 is pushing reasonable in my book and $10 is outrageous for a couple paper cartridges that add up to all of 8 ozs including the box. Actually delivery costs shouldn't be more than $1-$3. The rates you see on UPS.com are NOT the rates a large mail order outfit pays or close to it. They contract on volume and pay DRAMATICALLY less to UPS by the lb. This is definatley a sub 1 pound order and via even USPS it's at MOST $3.85 and even cheaper if sent 1st cl or parcel.

You know Autozone has to pay somebody to check inventory, some somebody to load the truck, unload the truck, stock the counter and man the register too just like some .com mailorder outfit has to pay somebody to 'pack the box'. How far shall we take this idiotic analogy?

If you or someone else cares to point me to a website that has cheap BMW filters w/ 'reasonable' shipping costs and a combined price that is cheaper than the local price including local sales tax - then that sounds fine. But I still haven't seen anybody post a URL including you. And unless the savings are notable, I'm happy to keep my money in the community.

I never said anybody should delivery for FREE as you suggest I did. But by the same token I will certainly not give any business to someone w/ artificially lower prices that are then compensated by unreasonable shipping costs.

So other than attributing something as idiotic as 'free delivery' to me WHICH I NEVER SAID, what is your point anyway?

-T

PS: There are mail order places that do have 'free delivery' BTW. They have calculated shipping/handling costs as part of their overhead into their prices. For someone like me who always adds up the COMBINED COSTS to purchase AND SHIP anyway - I appreciate not having to do the simple math though it tends to avg out either way.

 

[pgtr]

dickwells,
I'm not the neatest person in the world but I've had more luck doing 'clean' drip free oil changes on this late model BMW than any other car I've ever owned. I just lift the filter up and right into the empty box of the new one and in the can it goes. I no longer bother wiping out the inside of the can :-(

Ralph,
On the cost I think there are a number of contributing factors: They are usually made in Germany w/ relatively high labor rates and they are not made in near the quantity of most spin-on filters. Further spin-ons are popular on cars w/ notably shorter oil drain intervals too.

If more makers beyond the Europeans were using this style of filters on a widespread basis and then mainstream mass production companies like wix/puro/fram/champ started making these themselves (instead of OEing them to German companies) - the price would or should drop notably I think.

Heck they are already making these filters essentially but they go the extra step of wrapping them in a can w/ extra seals and springs and paint and such.

However even so I suspect they would never drop below current spin-on filter prices - just a gut feeling on my part.

On the other hand that last STP I bought was made in Korea (not Germany like they usually are) yet despite OE'ing to a Korean maker instead of a German maker, they did retain a comparable price which was a little dissapointing. :-(

-T

 

[segfault]

VW's VR6 engine uses the spin-on canister type filter you describe. It also uses a 36mm socket, but has grips along the outside flange if the proper equipment isn't available. Volvo's newer engines use the spin-on canister as well.

GM's new Ecotec 2.2l engine uses a top-loading, non-spin-on canister that looks like it will make a mess when changing it!

 

[spectre]

Segfault,

I have the ecotec engine and i must say i like the setup... with enough practice you can take it out without spilling a drop...

Unfortunately, the only oil filters i can find around here is the ch9018 fram or s9018 stp. one is made in france i think the other in thailand.... $7.99 each. It is rather small for an oil filter i think..

 

[rudiger]

I have a question regarding 'pre-oiling' the BMW cartridge filter.

I've always pre-oiled my canister filters before installing, i.e., filled the filter with new oil so that the new oil gets into the engine sooner when started. You can tell because if this isn't done, the oil light stays on for a few seconds. If the filter is filled with oil, the oil light goes out almost immediately.

Anyway, is this possible to do with the cartridge type filter? I've read that when the old, used cartridge is removed, a valve is release in the oil filter housing on the vehicle which allows the remaining old oil in the filter housing to drain into the pan.

If this is the case, if new oil is added to the empty filter housing in an effort to pre-oil the cartridge, won't it, too, simply drain into the pan like the old oil?

To me, this is one of the real drawbacks to the cartridge-style oil filter versus the cannister.

BTW, pacificbmw.com has the filters for $6/ea, plus shipping. Not too bad if you buying other parts or a half-dozen filters or so at a time.

 

[1maniac]

My 540i has the cartridge style filter and yes, when you take the filter out the oil drains back into the pan. After changing my oil and filter I put the housing lid on but leave it loose untuill I start the engine to purge the air ASAP. If not the OIL light stays on for a long time.