Bachelors - Pressure for marriage

[javacontour]

Which has been my position all along.

But being against no fault divorce doesn't get the congregation worked up like same-sex marriage.

The women's groups don't want it, because they want those women who are abused to be able to divorce their abuser without actually having to prove any grounds.

There are few who are in favor of getting rid of NFD for various pet reasons.


Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Let's try the link again:

http://www.adn.com/2012/06/24/2518581/most-of-the-time-wife-initiates.html

Since women file the majority of divorces, and it stands to reason they file when they perceive the advantage, more men than women file for divorce.

Frankly, I don't see how it's anything other than tragic when a faithful father loses primary custody of his child simply because his wife no longer wants to honor her vows.

But since fidelity is not considered due to No Fault Divorce laws, all it takes is for someone to say I no longer want to be married and there is a good chance she'll be walking away with your child.

Her failure to keep her vow is immaterial in court.

Yet we wonder why we see more people in society who think honor is an outdated concept.

As I've said before, you can't keep someone against his/her will. But why reward (or trust them) with the responsibility to raise a responsible, productive child when the means they are becoming a single parent is because they no longer want to be held to their vows simply because they don't feel like it.

We have too much "Follow your heart" and not enough "The heart is deceitful above all things."


It sounds like the real thing to be angry about are no-fault divoce laws.

I do tend to agree that more people need to take a step back and do a realistic evaluation of their relationship. Following your heart alone without seeking answers to very important questions that could give you some idea of how successful the marriage will be is asking for trouble.

I think one step in the right direction might be to incentivize pre-marital counseling.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: BubbaFL
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy

The problem is in my state if she claimed that you hit her, no proof or truth is required just a claim. A judge can order any firearms you own seized and your license to posses them revoked.

So if your a firearms collector like me with a few bucks into a collection that can all evaporate on a claim and good luck getting them back, ever.

This is why anyone with any kind of money in firearms needs to put them in a trust before marrying.


It's like that in every state that allows FAPA restraining orders to be issued (which is probably every state). If you are the subject of a restraining order, it is a Federal crime to possess firearms or ammunition (18 USC §922(g)(8) ).

Having ownership in a trust won't solve this problem. If the firearms are physically in your possession, you're cooked.


In that case...may as well vivisect her, then. Your life is already ruined, so you might as well make it for something worthwhile!

In divorce court, men can do no right, women can do no wrong. If a man doesn't pay child support, he's screwed. If a woman doesn't pay...she gets it waived, and the monthly amount reduced. (This actually happened to my brother!) Plenty of women will wail, "HE HIT ME!" just for leverage in a divorce.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle


In that case...may as well vivisect her, then. Your life is already ruined, so you might as well make it for something worthwhile!

In divorce court, men can do no right, women can do no wrong. If a man doesn't pay child support, he's screwed. If a woman doesn't pay...she gets it waived, and the monthly amount reduced. (This actually happened to my brother!) Plenty of women will wail, "HE HIT ME!" just for leverage in a divorce.


YUP. Or he sexually abused the kids. Another popular tactic used against men in divorce. What really irks me is when these false claims are made, and it is proven they are false, the woman is not prosecuted. Makes me sick. I have seen this one used. It is absolutely the lowest of lows to accuse someone of that for an advantage in a divorce.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I don't know how much you expect one person to actually be involved in to qualify their comments as more than just anecdotal which is what you seem to think mine are. I also don't know just how many bad divorces where the guy got screwed big time you expect someone to see before they have the right to start thinking like me. Seems to me know one can ever produce enough experience or info to satisfy you.



I don't know you from anybody else on the internet. You're just a random person. Which means that from the start you have zero credibility. When you say the things you've been saying mixed with statements like "I don't trust women" and then a paragraph later say that you don't believe that all women are bad, it looks like you're trying to be able to say borderline misogynistic things but then immediately throw out a half hearted apology so people can't call you on it. It's like starting a sentence with "I'm not racist, but..." to preemptively alleviate yourself of the guilt of saying something racist.

People on the internet debate like this all of the time. Nobody learns anything and everybody walks away frustrated.

Take a tip from javacontour. If you enter a conversation like this with a legitimate study in your back pocket, one from a reputable source with real names on it of people who have actual credentials and are qualified to do research on the subject, it saves a lot of time and frustration for the guy who just wants some real information on the topic.

You can be right, but if you can't prove it then it doesn't matter.


Whatever. It is clear you don't agree with me so nothing I say will ever be ok with you on this subject. Everything I have said is based on what I have seen myself so believe it or not I don't really care. I would also point out your credibility is lacking as well. All you have done is say I and others are wrong and demand proof of what we say. Where is your proof we are wrong? That works both ways.

I don't trust the modern women( in general - it doesn't mean every single one )when it comes to marriage. I also don't trust the courts to treat me fairly in a divorce. I have seen how both are not trustworthy MANY TIMES! I also don't believe that all women are bad. There is nothing contradictory about those statements. I come from a family with a long line of great marriages. My parents marriage was amazing. Modern day females though are just not like the ones from years ago. Things have changed and they are not the same. Well, maybe I should say how they view marriage and what it means has changed.

Yes, there are still good women out there who would make someone a good wife and who take marriage seriously as it should be. However, there are also a lot of gold diggers out there looking for a guy to set up to take advantage of financially as well as a lot of women who get married without taking it serious because they know they can get out at any time they want and hit the lotto in the process.

How is the guy to know? I have seen women that I was sure would be good wives for friends who turned out to be the devil's offspring. Nasty, vicious, lying, cheating, gold diggers who CHANGED once the ring went on and they became entitled to everything their husband had. Women who were so nice and kind that turned into old harpies and who took full advantage of the biased divorce system to rake their husbands over the coals and destroy them for financial gain.

At least one it was discovered planned it using one of those websites I mentioned. She sought out my friend as he fit the profile. Got married, had 2 kids, and then took it ALL. She is now with the boyfriend she was with the entire time living in my friends house, with all his money, and with the kids she treats like dogs. My friend is destitute and has vanished to try and save himself( I assume ). Now tell me that wouldn't give you pause and concerns.

So yes, I do think there are good women still out there but I will be darned if I would know how to spot one and I for darn sure don't trust the gender now as an unknown group. I also absolutely do not trust the legal system to be unbiased and fair if I picked wrong. If you can't see that point you just don't want to. I am not saying you have to feel the same way but it is a valid and logical way to feel about it.

Enough. You clearly won't sway me and I won't sway you so let's agree to disagree and move on.

 

[stockrex]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Which has been my position all along.

But being against no fault divorce doesn't get the congregation worked up like same-sex marriage.

The women's groups don't want it, because they want those women who are abused to be able to divorce their abuser without actually having to prove any grounds.

There are few who are in favor of getting rid of NFD for various pet reasons.


Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Let's try the link again:

http://www.adn.com/2012/06/24/2518581/most-of-the-time-wife-initiates.html

Since women file the majority of divorces, and it stands to reason they file when they perceive the advantage, more men than women file for divorce.

Frankly, I don't see how it's anything other than tragic when a faithful father loses primary custody of his child simply because his wife no longer wants to honor her vows.

But since fidelity is not considered due to No Fault Divorce laws, all it takes is for someone to say I no longer want to be married and there is a good chance she'll be walking away with your child.

Her failure to keep her vow is immaterial in court.

Yet we wonder why we see more people in society who think honor is an outdated concept.

As I've said before, you can't keep someone against his/her will. But why reward (or trust them) with the responsibility to raise a responsible, productive child when the means they are becoming a single parent is because they no longer want to be held to their vows simply because they don't feel like it.

We have too much "Follow your heart" and not enough "The heart is deceitful above all things."


It sounds like the real thing to be angry about are no-fault divoce laws.

I do tend to agree that more people need to take a step back and do a realistic evaluation of their relationship. Following your heart alone without seeking answers to very important questions that could give you some idea of how successful the marriage will be is asking for trouble.

I think one step in the right direction might be to incentivize pre-marital counseling.



Thinking about marriage: Please go to your nearest family court and sit there for a few hours. Takes notes if necessary, you will be puking after the 4th case.

80% of the case I witnessed went like this:
The female filed for divorce, claimed the guy is dangerous, abusive, she is afraid of the guy, he is paying all the bills, judge pls throw him out of the house and order him to pay ALL bills and give her money to screw her new BF. Oh yes, if are kids involved: judge, how about supervised visits, say once a month.

Judge: gives most men anywhere from a week to 24 hours to move his stuff out but keep paying for the bills. gives mother immediate custody and order FOC custody eval. FOC is bad bad for kids and the dad, look up Title IV-D federal match.

 

[stockrex]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I don't know how much you expect one person to actually be involved in to qualify their comments as more than just anecdotal which is what you seem to think mine are. I also don't know just how many bad divorces where the guy got screwed big time you expect someone to see before they have the right to start thinking like me. Seems to me know one can ever produce enough experience or info to satisfy you.



I don't know you from anybody else on the internet. You're just a random person. Which means that from the start you have zero credibility. When you say the things you've been saying mixed with statements like "I don't trust women" and then a paragraph later say that you don't believe that all women are bad, it looks like you're trying to be able to say borderline misogynistic things but then immediately throw out a half hearted apology so people can't call you on it. It's like starting a sentence with "I'm not racist, but..." to preemptively alleviate yourself of the guilt of saying something racist.

People on the internet debate like this all of the time. Nobody learns anything and everybody walks away frustrated.

Take a tip from javacontour. If you enter a conversation like this with a legitimate study in your back pocket, one from a reputable source with real names on it of people who have actual credentials and are qualified to do research on the subject, it saves a lot of time and frustration for the guy who just wants some real information on the topic.

You can be right, but if you can't prove it then it doesn't matter.


Whatever. It is clear you don't agree with me so nothing I say will ever be ok with you on this subject. Everything I have said is based on what I have seen myself so believe it or not I don't really care. I would also point out your credibility is lacking as well. All you have done is say I and others are wrong and demand proof of what we say. Where is your proof we are wrong? That works both ways.

I don't trust the modern women( in general - it doesn't mean every single one )when it comes to marriage. I also don't trust the courts to treat me fairly in a divorce. I have seen how both are not trustworthy MANY TIMES! I also don't believe that all women are bad. There is nothing contradictory about those statements. I come from a family with a long line of great marriages. My parents marriage was amazing. Modern day females though are just not like the ones from years ago. Things have changed and they are not the same. Well, maybe I should say how they view marriage and what it means has changed.

Yes, there are still good women out there who would make someone a good wife and who take marriage seriously as it should be. However, there are also a lot of gold diggers out there looking for a guy to set up to take advantage of financially as well as a lot of women who get married without taking it serious because they know they can get out at any time they want and hit the lotto in the process.

How is the guy to know? I have seen women that I was sure would be good wives for friends who turned out to be the devil's offspring. Nasty, vicious, lying, cheating, gold diggers who CHANGED once the ring went on and they became entitled to everything their husband had. Women who were so nice and kind that turned into old harpies and who took full advantage of the biased divorce system to rake their husbands over the coals and destroy them for financial gain.

At least one it was discovered planned it using one of those websites I mentioned. She sought out my friend as he fit the profile. Got married, had 2 kids, and then took it ALL. She is now with the boyfriend she was with the entire time living in my friends house, with all his money, and with the kids she treats like dogs. My friend is destitute and has vanished to try and save himself( I assume ). Now tell me that wouldn't give you pause and concerns.

So yes, I do think there are good women still out there but I will be darned if I would know how to spot one and I for darn sure don't trust the gender now as an unknown group. I also absolutely do not trust the legal system to be unbiased and fair if I picked wrong. If you can't see that point you just don't want to. I am not saying you have to feel the same way but it is a valid and logical way to feel about it.

Enough. You clearly won't sway me and I won't sway you so let's agree to disagree and move on.

NHHEMI, you friend is not alone and his case if not unique, that is the NORM for divorce in this nation of ours.
The system is biased and the courts help is the transfer of money from the man(earner) to the woman, as they get matching funds (our tax money) from the feds, title IV-D.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle


In that case...may as well vivisect her, then. Your life is already ruined, so you might as well make it for something worthwhile!

In divorce court, men can do no right, women can do no wrong. If a man doesn't pay child support, he's screwed. If a woman doesn't pay...she gets it waived, and the monthly amount reduced. (This actually happened to my brother!) Plenty of women will wail, "HE HIT ME!" just for leverage in a divorce.


YUP. Or he sexually abused the kids. Another popular tactic used against men in divorce. What really irks me is when these false claims are made, and it is proven they are false, the woman is not prosecuted. Makes me sick. I have seen this one used. It is absolutely the lowest of lows to accuse someone of that for an advantage in a divorce.


Not only was my cousin's ex not prosecuted, but when he washed down a bottle of pills with a fifth of Jack, he had no will...and she got everything he owned.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle


In that case...may as well vivisect her, then. Your life is already ruined, so you might as well make it for something worthwhile!

In divorce court, men can do no right, women can do no wrong. If a man doesn't pay child support, he's screwed. If a woman doesn't pay...she gets it waived, and the monthly amount reduced. (This actually happened to my brother!) Plenty of women will wail, "HE HIT ME!" just for leverage in a divorce.


YUP. Or he sexually abused the kids. Another popular tactic used against men in divorce. What really irks me is when these false claims are made, and it is proven they are false, the woman is not prosecuted. Makes me sick. I have seen this one used. It is absolutely the lowest of lows to accuse someone of that for an advantage in a divorce.


Not only was my cousin's ex not prosecuted, but when he washed down a bottle of pills with a fifth of Jack, he had no will...and she got everything he owned.


Sorry to hear that. What a shame.

 

[Andy636]

We need more real life examples not studies, thesis and opinions

 

[GMFan]

There are a lot of conflicting messages in this thread and I never imagined it turning out this way but I appreciate free thinking and thought from the folks here. This forum is great because folks can civilly voice there opinions.

I will say I don't have a chip on my shoulder regarding females...I've been burned for sure but I do know there are good women out there too...just gotta beware of the not-so-good ones. All I know is God is going to have to send an angel my way for me to marry. As Clint Eastwood said, “They say all marriages are made in heaven, but so are thunder and lightning.”

I run from any woman who wants my purpose to be to "live for her" and she to "live for me." I think that is a superficial way to approach a relationship. By that logic the point of it all is to sacrifice yourself for others and be a martyr for the rest of your life. Isn't this the opposite of what should be?...should it not be based purely on respect, values, character and admiration for one another? SHARING your life with someone rather than GIVING it?

 

[Morkal]

I think the main things about the marriage that create pressure is the responsibility that you have.Like child support mortgage and many other things that you have to pay.That's the main reason for pressure on our young generation.