My Hakka R's have another 1-2 winters left in them, and then it'll be time to replace them. Hopefully with the R2's, since the R's were a good match for my Cruze.
Nokian Introduces New Winter Tires
- Thread starter SubLGT
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Here is the first review (but not a test) of the Hakka R2 I have seen online:
http://tires.about.com/od/Tire_Reviews/fr/Review-Nokian-Hakkapeliitta-R2.htm
It is not an in depth review. Maybe that will come later.
"..........On hardpack snow they drive like pavement, handling the Audi's power and agility with confident authority and out-of-this world grip. A smooth application of power engages the tires immediately with almost no wheel spin, and steering response is both strong and sharp. Swerving into the deeper snow to the side of the road, (earning a mild protest from my right-seater) barely even tugs at the car as the tires cut through the deep snow like nothing at all. Braking is forceful and quick on both ice and snow.
What surprised me most was the handling on pavement. The R2's were as much fun to drive on cold pavement as any Ultra High Performance Winter tire I've ever driven, something I would never have said of my beloved Hakka R's. The R2's were smooth and precise, with a springy handling and great steering feedback. They were also remarkably quiet for winter tires, generating only a medium bell tone that I had to open the window to hear at all. They seemed to qualitatively add to the experience of driving the high-performance cars in extreme conditions............"
http://tires.about.com/od/Tire_Reviews/fr/Review-Nokian-Hakkapeliitta-R2.htm
It is not an in depth review. Maybe that will come later.
"..........On hardpack snow they drive like pavement, handling the Audi's power and agility with confident authority and out-of-this world grip. A smooth application of power engages the tires immediately with almost no wheel spin, and steering response is both strong and sharp. Swerving into the deeper snow to the side of the road, (earning a mild protest from my right-seater) barely even tugs at the car as the tires cut through the deep snow like nothing at all. Braking is forceful and quick on both ice and snow.
What surprised me most was the handling on pavement. The R2's were as much fun to drive on cold pavement as any Ultra High Performance Winter tire I've ever driven, something I would never have said of my beloved Hakka R's. The R2's were smooth and precise, with a springy handling and great steering feedback. They were also remarkably quiet for winter tires, generating only a medium bell tone that I had to open the window to hear at all. They seemed to qualitatively add to the experience of driving the high-performance cars in extreme conditions............"
everything you ever wanted to know about the new WR G3:
http://www.nokiantyres.com/media-release?id=32783096&year=2013&group=
photos:
http://media.digtator.fi/digtator//public/252185511f90b63b74ee1614b4a325ff/
http://www.nokiantyres.com/media-release?id=32783096&year=2013&group=
photos:
http://media.digtator.fi/digtator//public/252185511f90b63b74ee1614b4a325ff/
Now I understand why Nokians are even more expensive than Michelins:
"....................Nokian Tyres plc is not the largest tire manufacturer in the world by a wide sales margin. However, it arguably is the most profitable.
And it intends to remain that way...........................................................
“Profit is more important to us than volume,” says Hannu Teininen, vice president of sales and logistics.........."
http://www.moderntiredealer.com/channel/...y-that-can.aspx
"....................Nokian Tyres plc is not the largest tire manufacturer in the world by a wide sales margin. However, it arguably is the most profitable.
And it intends to remain that way...........................................................
“Profit is more important to us than volume,” says Hannu Teininen, vice president of sales and logistics.........."
http://www.moderntiredealer.com/channel/...y-that-can.aspx
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
the WR G3 isn't new from Nokian. It's new to the North American market.
...............................
".........It has different compounding than its European counterparts, resulting in better mileage and handling for the North American market..........."
http://www.moderntiredealer.com/channel/...x#ixzz2RmDn56sk
the WR G3 isn't new from Nokian. It's new to the North American market.
...............................
".........It has different compounding than its European counterparts, resulting in better mileage and handling for the North American market..........."
http://www.moderntiredealer.com/channel/...x#ixzz2RmDn56sk
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Now I understand why Nokians are even more expensive than Michelins:
"....................Nokian Tyres plc is not the largest tire manufacturer in the world by a wide sales margin. However, it arguably is the most profitable.
And it intends to remain that way...........................................................
“Profit is more important to us than volume,” says Hannu Teininen, vice president of sales and logistics.........."
http://www.moderntiredealer.com/channel/...y-that-can.aspx
Or, we have good tires, we know it, tests and real-world use shows it, and we'll charge accordingly. Reminds me of Amsoil, Royal Purple, and other specialty lubricant makers.
Now I understand why Nokians are even more expensive than Michelins:
"....................Nokian Tyres plc is not the largest tire manufacturer in the world by a wide sales margin. However, it arguably is the most profitable.
And it intends to remain that way...........................................................
“Profit is more important to us than volume,” says Hannu Teininen, vice president of sales and logistics.........."
http://www.moderntiredealer.com/channel/...y-that-can.aspx
Or, we have good tires, we know it, tests and real-world use shows it, and we'll charge accordingly. Reminds me of Amsoil, Royal Purple, and other specialty lubricant makers.
I'm hoping the WRG3 has a better treadlife than the WRG2. That was about the only complaint I'd hear on that tire, is the price for the life meant it wasn't always a great buy for the "limited funding options" group.
When my Primacy MXV4 are done (have been very pleased with them overall, they are weak in slush though) I'm hoping to replace with WRG3 or the enTYRE from Nokian.
When my Primacy MXV4 are done (have been very pleased with them overall, they are weak in slush though) I'm hoping to replace with WRG3 or the enTYRE from Nokian.
I have the enTyre on my Jetta, but I don't trust them at all in snow. Not that I've tried, I've just had snow tires on a set of rims ready to go at all times on this car. Did have the WR2's, they got noisy at the end (probably my fault, cupping from poor rotation) and I did find they have short life. OTOH, for a snow tire, the first half of the tread is the good tread, at the time I was probably driving enough that I could just replace every November.
Quoted from the Russian automotive online magazine AutoReview:
".........It is no secret that winter tires Nokian most expensive on the market, and the new models will become even more expensive: spike - an average of 10%, non-studded - 3%. Let's wait for the results of comparative tests to find out how justified this approach to pricing..........."
http://www.autoreview.ru/_archive/section/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=128377&SECTION_ID=7279
".........It is no secret that winter tires Nokian most expensive on the market, and the new models will become even more expensive: spike - an average of 10%, non-studded - 3%. Let's wait for the results of comparative tests to find out how justified this approach to pricing..........."
http://www.autoreview.ru/_archive/section/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=128377&SECTION_ID=7279
Consumer Reports has a small update on testing of the R2:
"..............Through these tests, we found significant trends between all-season and winter tires and a significant spread in performance of models within categories. For instance, the average stopping distance for all-season and winter tires was 39 and 32 feet, respectively. That seven-foot difference between all-season and winter tires from just a 10 mph stop should impress, but more glaring was the 21-foot difference between the best and worst tires.
The Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 and the Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 stopped the shortest in just 26 feet, while the not-so impressive Falken Ziex ZE912 took a long 47 feet to stop..................."
"..............Although the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 and Blizzak WS70 are ice-braking champs, their resistance to hydroplaning was anything but impressive. The "Hakka" was the worst, hydroplaning at a relatively slow speed of 44 mph, followed by the Blizzak WS70 at 47 mph.
For contrast, ultra-high-performance all-season and summer tires hydroplaned at 53 and 55 mph on average, respectively. The Maxxis MA-Z1 summer tire was tops, reaching hydroplaning levels at an impressive 60 mph treading through our 3/8-inch deep puddle.................."
http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/201...ces-on-ice.html
"..............Through these tests, we found significant trends between all-season and winter tires and a significant spread in performance of models within categories. For instance, the average stopping distance for all-season and winter tires was 39 and 32 feet, respectively. That seven-foot difference between all-season and winter tires from just a 10 mph stop should impress, but more glaring was the 21-foot difference between the best and worst tires.
The Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 and the Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 stopped the shortest in just 26 feet, while the not-so impressive Falken Ziex ZE912 took a long 47 feet to stop..................."
"..............Although the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 and Blizzak WS70 are ice-braking champs, their resistance to hydroplaning was anything but impressive. The "Hakka" was the worst, hydroplaning at a relatively slow speed of 44 mph, followed by the Blizzak WS70 at 47 mph.
For contrast, ultra-high-performance all-season and summer tires hydroplaned at 53 and 55 mph on average, respectively. The Maxxis MA-Z1 summer tire was tops, reaching hydroplaning levels at an impressive 60 mph treading through our 3/8-inch deep puddle.................."
http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/201...ces-on-ice.html
More reason to have the right tire for the season. Snow tires aren't meant to resist hydroplaning as much as cut through slush and snow. When it's snowy out, run snow tires. When it's wet out, run something else.
Originally Posted By: sciphi
More reason to have the right tire for the season. Snow tires aren't meant to resist hydroplaning as much as cut through slush and snow. When it's snowy out, run snow tires. When it's wet out, run something else.
This is why pure winter tires make little sense along coastal NH. We get more rain than snow in the winter. The Nokian WR G2 seemed covered this off incredibly well.
Every time I put pure winter tires on my WRX and wife's Legacy GT what a real disappointment driving around in the winter except on those snowy days. I am done with winter tires myself as all-seasons or Nokian WR G2's are just more fun in the majority of the winter.
More reason to have the right tire for the season. Snow tires aren't meant to resist hydroplaning as much as cut through slush and snow. When it's snowy out, run snow tires. When it's wet out, run something else.
This is why pure winter tires make little sense along coastal NH. We get more rain than snow in the winter. The Nokian WR G2 seemed covered this off incredibly well.
Every time I put pure winter tires on my WRX and wife's Legacy GT what a real disappointment driving around in the winter except on those snowy days. I am done with winter tires myself as all-seasons or Nokian WR G2's are just more fun in the majority of the winter.
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Hmmm... This switches up my choices for the Jeep for snow tires for next winter. I'd gotten it down to the Michelin xi2 and Blizzak DM-V1 (leaning towards the Blizzaks), but the Hakka R2s will probably be worth checking out unless they carry too much of a price premium. I'd ruled out the old Hakka Rs, as they didn't seem any better than the Blizzaks (based on reviews), and they're $50 more per tire.
The Nokians generally have a thicker tread than competitors and last at least a season longer than tires like the Michelin X-Ice. So while they are more expensive to buy, they are cheaper to own.
Most X-Ice sizes are 10.5/32nd deep according to tirerack. Most Nokians are 12/32nd. For comparison, most high performance tires start at 10/32nd and light truck tires start at 15/32nd.
Depending on the locality, snow tires cease to be snow tires legally at 4-6/32nd. In Europe tread depth is measured in mm so that includes some conversion. For example in Austria they must have a tread depth of at least 4mm. In Quebec I believe it is 6mm.
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: sciphi
More reason to have the right tire for the season. Snow tires aren't meant to resist hydroplaning as much as cut through slush and snow. When it's snowy out, run snow tires. When it's wet out, run something else.
This is why pure winter tires make little sense along coastal NH. We get more rain than snow in the winter. The Nokian WR G2 seemed covered this off incredibly well.
Every time I put pure winter tires on my WRX and wife's Legacy GT what a real disappointment driving around in the winter except on those snowy days. I am done with winter tires myself as all-seasons or Nokian WR G2's are just more fun in the majority of the winter.
Funny to mention that as I have an Outback 3.0r and a WRX. In terms of the coast effect, Boston averages around 45" a season while Blue Hills Observatory (only a few miles inland) averages 60". I used to run the WRG2 in stock size fall and spring and use 16" Hakka R's in winter. But after destroying four side walls I now just use the Hakka R's November through March as they are holding up a lot better, run quieter and get better mpg than older snows we had. I count the number of days per season where I feel snow tires are really needed: last winter was 12.
I'm going to drive the OBW a lot more this winter because the WRX just doesn't have enough ground clearance.
Hmmm... This switches up my choices for the Jeep for snow tires for next winter. I'd gotten it down to the Michelin xi2 and Blizzak DM-V1 (leaning towards the Blizzaks), but the Hakka R2s will probably be worth checking out unless they carry too much of a price premium. I'd ruled out the old Hakka Rs, as they didn't seem any better than the Blizzaks (based on reviews), and they're $50 more per tire.
The Nokians generally have a thicker tread than competitors and last at least a season longer than tires like the Michelin X-Ice. So while they are more expensive to buy, they are cheaper to own.
Most X-Ice sizes are 10.5/32nd deep according to tirerack. Most Nokians are 12/32nd. For comparison, most high performance tires start at 10/32nd and light truck tires start at 15/32nd.
Depending on the locality, snow tires cease to be snow tires legally at 4-6/32nd. In Europe tread depth is measured in mm so that includes some conversion. For example in Austria they must have a tread depth of at least 4mm. In Quebec I believe it is 6mm.
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: sciphi
More reason to have the right tire for the season. Snow tires aren't meant to resist hydroplaning as much as cut through slush and snow. When it's snowy out, run snow tires. When it's wet out, run something else.
This is why pure winter tires make little sense along coastal NH. We get more rain than snow in the winter. The Nokian WR G2 seemed covered this off incredibly well.
Every time I put pure winter tires on my WRX and wife's Legacy GT what a real disappointment driving around in the winter except on those snowy days. I am done with winter tires myself as all-seasons or Nokian WR G2's are just more fun in the majority of the winter.
Funny to mention that as I have an Outback 3.0r and a WRX. In terms of the coast effect, Boston averages around 45" a season while Blue Hills Observatory (only a few miles inland) averages 60". I used to run the WRG2 in stock size fall and spring and use 16" Hakka R's in winter. But after destroying four side walls I now just use the Hakka R's November through March as they are holding up a lot better, run quieter and get better mpg than older snows we had. I count the number of days per season where I feel snow tires are really needed: last winter was 12.
I'm going to drive the OBW a lot more this winter because the WRX just doesn't have enough ground clearance.
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I have some WR G3s on the way for the Fusion. They'll get left on year round since mileage is extremely low. I think Ill wait until closer to winter before I get them installed, however. The Factory Michelin's have plenty of tread left. If it wasn't for their [censored] poor snow traction I would leave them on another year.
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I just bought a new sedan and my curiosity can't keep me from looking for new snow tires... even several months early. I want the absolute best snow tire I can find for my wife and new baby. Many people tout the Nokian R2 as the best, but it is really tough to find a head to head comparison of the R2 to a X ice 3.
It seems the original Hakka R bested the Xi2, but the reviews for the Xi3 say they are night and day better than the Xi2. My question is, did Michelin improve the Xi3 enough to finally pass the Hakka R2?
From my understanding, the xi2 lost to the original Hakka R in lateral grip. This is something Michelin took to heart and focused on for the xi3, that and deep snow grip. Right now, I'm leaning towards the xi3 just because I know more about them. One review tested the tires worn to 4/32nds and only the xi3 maintained solid grip. That tells me the xi3 will still be a decent tire even at the end of its life.
I previously had Blizzaks on my other sedan and they wore out super fast, winter use only. I now have Altimax Artic and they are good on hard packed, but suck in any snow depth at all. So, the Xi3 seem to be my choice, but I can find the Hakka R2 for about the same price and want to keep an open mind to them as well.
Any advice is appreciated.
Xi2 < Hakka R < Xi3... but where does the Hakka R2 fit into this hierarchy of winter supremacy?
It seems the original Hakka R bested the Xi2, but the reviews for the Xi3 say they are night and day better than the Xi2. My question is, did Michelin improve the Xi3 enough to finally pass the Hakka R2?
From my understanding, the xi2 lost to the original Hakka R in lateral grip. This is something Michelin took to heart and focused on for the xi3, that and deep snow grip. Right now, I'm leaning towards the xi3 just because I know more about them. One review tested the tires worn to 4/32nds and only the xi3 maintained solid grip. That tells me the xi3 will still be a decent tire even at the end of its life.
I previously had Blizzaks on my other sedan and they wore out super fast, winter use only. I now have Altimax Artic and they are good on hard packed, but suck in any snow depth at all. So, the Xi3 seem to be my choice, but I can find the Hakka R2 for about the same price and want to keep an open mind to them as well.
Any advice is appreciated.
Xi2 < Hakka R < Xi3... but where does the Hakka R2 fit into this hierarchy of winter supremacy?
Originally Posted By: 360kid
I just bought a new sedan and my curiosity can't keep me from looking for new snow tires... even several months early. I want the absolute best snow tire I can find for my wife and new baby. Many people tout the Nokian R2 as the best, but it is really tough to find a head to head comparison of the R2 to a X ice 3.
It seems the original Hakka R bested the Xi2, but the reviews for the Xi3 say they are night and day better than the Xi2. My question is, did Michelin improve the Xi3 enough to finally pass the Hakka R2?
From my understanding, the xi2 lost to the original Hakka R in lateral grip. This is something Michelin took to heart and focused on for the xi3, that and deep snow grip. Right now, I'm leaning towards the xi3 just because I know more about them. One review tested the tires worn to 4/32nds and only the xi3 maintained solid grip. That tells me the xi3 will still be a decent tire even at the end of its life.
I previously had Blizzaks on my other sedan and they wore out super fast, winter use only. I now have Altimax Artic and they are good on hard packed, but suck in any snow depth at all. So, the Xi3 seem to be my choice, but I can find the Hakka R2 for about the same price and want to keep an open mind to them as well.
Any advice is appreciated.
Xi2 < Hakka R < Xi3... but where does the Hakka R2 fit into this hierarchy of winter supremacy?
I can tell you my folks had Hakka R's on their Maxima for a few years and they were the best tire they had personally used, followed closely by the Altimax Arctic from General (Gislaved designed) The Altimax are my personal favorite out of any tires I myself have used on my own vehicle.
I really believe if you want good snow tires, buying from the people who live in snow year round are the preferred countries of origin. I have had Blizzak's before and they are a joke compared to some of the good Scandanavian/European brands. I won't buy a Blizzak ever again honestly..
I just bought a new sedan and my curiosity can't keep me from looking for new snow tires... even several months early. I want the absolute best snow tire I can find for my wife and new baby. Many people tout the Nokian R2 as the best, but it is really tough to find a head to head comparison of the R2 to a X ice 3.
It seems the original Hakka R bested the Xi2, but the reviews for the Xi3 say they are night and day better than the Xi2. My question is, did Michelin improve the Xi3 enough to finally pass the Hakka R2?
From my understanding, the xi2 lost to the original Hakka R in lateral grip. This is something Michelin took to heart and focused on for the xi3, that and deep snow grip. Right now, I'm leaning towards the xi3 just because I know more about them. One review tested the tires worn to 4/32nds and only the xi3 maintained solid grip. That tells me the xi3 will still be a decent tire even at the end of its life.
I previously had Blizzaks on my other sedan and they wore out super fast, winter use only. I now have Altimax Artic and they are good on hard packed, but suck in any snow depth at all. So, the Xi3 seem to be my choice, but I can find the Hakka R2 for about the same price and want to keep an open mind to them as well.
Any advice is appreciated.
Xi2 < Hakka R < Xi3... but where does the Hakka R2 fit into this hierarchy of winter supremacy?
I can tell you my folks had Hakka R's on their Maxima for a few years and they were the best tire they had personally used, followed closely by the Altimax Arctic from General (Gislaved designed) The Altimax are my personal favorite out of any tires I myself have used on my own vehicle.
I really believe if you want good snow tires, buying from the people who live in snow year round are the preferred countries of origin. I have had Blizzak's before and they are a joke compared to some of the good Scandanavian/European brands. I won't buy a Blizzak ever again honestly..
I have had Blizzaks and they were great for the first season, then went downhill from there. I have Altimax Arctics on my Impala. Ice and hard packed roads are fine, but I was very disappointed in any type of snow depth. I had several inches in my drive way upon getting home from work and my car couldn't make it up the drive way with the Arctics. That was the first winter with them as well. My wife made it up the drive way and she had 4 year old Pacemark snow tires from Walmart. Needless to say, I was disappointed in the Altimax Arctics and that's why I'm not going back to them for our new car for my wife and baby.
I think I am going to give the Ice Xi3 a shot. I can only find the Hakka R2's on 1 website and no one carries them locally. Maybe when fall hits, I will see more websites with the R2's and more comparisons and reviews. We'll see!
I think I am going to give the Ice Xi3 a shot. I can only find the Hakka R2's on 1 website and no one carries them locally. Maybe when fall hits, I will see more websites with the R2's and more comparisons and reviews. We'll see!
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