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#3095383 - 08/14/13 12:23 PM Re: Canola Follow-up [Re: jhMalibu]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 3309
Loc: Upper Midwest
OK, I can't justify "crazy" but the OP is putting canola oil in his engine. Now the Germans did a lot of weird stuff because they had to, but really... substituting what is arguably the best motor oil ever produced with canola oil is a bit... crazy.

And you want to supplement the canola oil with LC20? Please inform me how this is better for my engine than running M1 5W-30. Please tell me what BMW or Toyota or Ford or GM or Honda or Kia or Chrysler or Audi or Mercedes would say if I told them I was using canola oil.

Please.

Originally Posted By: jhMalibu
I appreciated your willingness to try new things and didn't understand why people got so crazy.

Could you dope the RoNula (I like that one) with LC20 to slow down oxidation?
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 193K
1996 Honda Accord, 207K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 318K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 233K

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#3095398 - 08/14/13 12:48 PM Re: Canola Follow-up [Re: kschachn]
jhMalibu Offline


Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 194
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: kschachn


And you want to supplement the canola oil with LC20? Please inform me how this is better for my engine than running M1 5W-30. Please tell me what BMW or Toyota or Ford or GM or Honda or Kia or Chrysler or Audi or Mercedes would say if I told them I was using canola oil.


You're in the oil Additive section. No one said this is better than M1. Congrats, you listed major car manufacturers, but I don't really care what they would say.

The OP is free to do what he wants and some people (me) appreciate their willingness to experiment. Others (you) don't. Go pick a fight somewhere else.

Originally Posted By: kschachn


Please.



You're welcome.

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#3095406 - 08/14/13 12:57 PM Re: Canola Follow-up [Re: jhMalibu]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 3309
Loc: Upper Midwest
Well, you can call it an additive but at the 25% level I would not. That is more of a substitution, on most of my cars that would be a quart or more.

And you don't care what the automotive manufacturer would say? And it's being put into an engine anyway?

I'm not picking a fight. But you are delusional if you don't think that a 25% canola oil blend in a modern automotive engine is going to be greeted with "wow what a great idea". This is a discussion board, not a cheerleading board for any random idea that might be posted.

And yes I would anticipate that if you are doing this experiment, it is for some reason. A reason that includes some perceived deficiency with today's PCMO that is corrected or improved by the use of canola oil.

Continuing to berate me for questioning you does not help your cause. Rational explanations and discussion would.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 193K
1996 Honda Accord, 207K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 318K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 233K

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#3095428 - 08/14/13 01:26 PM Re: Canola Follow-up [Re: KeMBro2012]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 15124
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Quote:
Some of the uses canola has seen (military service -- and not for cooking -- and as a heavy machinery lube) are much more demanding than the inside of your typical engine. These are constant-use, minimal-maintenance scenarios, which seems to coincide with my experience; this oil seemed like it was gonna last dang near forever until I stopped using it for a while.


Maybe so, but I am pretty sure these are additized oils with special anti-oxidant packages, not virgin Canola oils.

It will be interesting to see your baseline VOA, UOA's, and observation on the visual properties of this mix.

I suspect what you are now seeing is a polymerization of the Canola oil mix.


Edited by MolaKule (08/14/13 01:28 PM)
_________________________
Technically speaking, if you don't cut the cake and eat it with a fork, are you only eating one piece? smile

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#3095467 - 08/14/13 02:15 PM Re: Canola Follow-up [Re: kschachn]
friendly_jacek Offline


Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 5852
Loc: southeast US
Originally Posted By: kschachn

I'm not picking a fight. But you are delusional


LOL!
You are quite a tool. Go somewhere else. This is a free country and OP can do what he pleases.

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#3095549 - 08/14/13 03:59 PM Re: Canola Follow-up [Re: MolaKule]
edhackett Offline


Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1608
Loc: Sequim, WA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
Some of the uses canola has seen (military service -- and not for cooking -- and as a heavy machinery lube) are much more demanding than the inside of your typical engine. These are constant-use, minimal-maintenance scenarios, which seems to coincide with my experience; this oil seemed like it was gonna last dang near forever until I stopped using it for a while.


Maybe so, but I am pretty sure these are additized oils with special anti-oxidant packages, not virgin Canola oils.

It will be interesting to see your baseline VOA, UOA's, and observation on the visual properties of this mix.

I suspect what you are now seeing is a polymerization of the Canola oil mix.


The only references I find to the military using canola was to lube steam engines.

Castor oil is an excellent lubricant for internal combustion engines, the best that could found up until the '70s. It could keep the 400 gross hp/L Alfa Romeo F1 engine alive in 1951. The downside to the use in internal combustion engines was that it was a one shot deal. Everyone using castor had to drain the oil hot at the end of each race as the oil would gel when it returned to ambient temperatures.

Ed
_________________________
Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers, accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers.

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#3095567 - 08/14/13 04:30 PM Re: Canola Follow-up [Re: edhackett]
friendly_jacek Offline


Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 5852
Loc: southeast US
Originally Posted By: edhackett

Castor oil is an excellent lubricant for internal combustion engines, the best that could found up until the '70s. .


Could some of those secret oil additives be castor oil?

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#3095570 - 08/14/13 04:33 PM Re: Canola Follow-up [Re: KeMBro2012]
friendly_jacek Offline


Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 5852
Loc: southeast US
Originally Posted By: KeMBro2012

My (inconclusive) analysis, at this point, is that canola is a good (I'd like to say excellent, but won't without numbers to back it up) additive for a daily driven vehicle


Remind me again, what were the benefits? Any noise change, MPG gain, etc?

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#3095571 - 08/14/13 04:33 PM Re: Canola Follow-up [Re: KeMBro2012]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 5179
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Oh brother, here we go again. Those with no interest in this EXPERIMENT are going to ruin it for those who do. WWF
_________________________
2004 Jeep GC WJ 4.0 @ 125k Castrol 5w40 w/ MMO
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#3095656 - 08/14/13 05:51 PM Re: Canola Follow-up [Re: KeMBro2012]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 10321
Loc: OH
Good to see you back.
We all know the potential downside risk, so there's no need for anyone to post about it.
Most of us want to see how this blend does in your engine.
If you'd wanted to run straight T6, you would have.
You wanted to try something unique and you did.
We'll all learn more from this than we would from another boring UOA of some Honda run 5K on T6/M1/PP/PU/Syntec/Synpower/G-Oil/RP/Edge/SSO or whatever.
Good for you that you did some research and are putting it to practical trial.
I'm really interested in seeing your UOA.
_________________________
12 Accord LX 30K TGMO 0W-20
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01 Focus ZX3 101K Meijer Syn 5W-20
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#3095789 - 08/14/13 08:47 PM Re: Canola Follow-up [Re: edhackett]
GreeCguy Offline


Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 2688
Loc: Elderly County, Florida
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Castor oil is an excellent lubricant for internal combustion engines, the best that could found up until the '70s. It could keep the 400 gross hp/L Alfa Romeo F1 engine alive in 1951. The downside to the use in internal combustion engines was that it was a one shot deal. Everyone using castor had to drain the oil hot at the end of each race as the oil would gel when it returned to ambient temperatures.

Ed



Didn't they use castor oil in airplane engines during world war one? If so, did they drain them after every mission? Just curious.
_________________________
"Dyslexics are teople poo!!."

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#3095793 - 08/14/13 08:50 PM Re: Canola Follow-up [Re: KeMBro2012]
GreeCguy Offline


Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 2688
Loc: Elderly County, Florida
And lets agree to be civil in this discussion. If you're not interested in the experiment, don't comment on the "insanity," "craziness" or "stupidity" of what the OP in trying to do. Let's keep in mind he's not asking any of us to fund this experiment and it happens to be on his dime. He wants to share the results with us and I think that's pretty cool. Let's all be cool as well.
_________________________
"Dyslexics are teople poo!!."

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#3095800 - 08/14/13 08:55 PM Re: Canola Follow-up [Re: GreeCguy]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3547
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: GreeCguy
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Castor oil is an excellent lubricant for internal combustion engines, the best that could found up until the '70s. It could keep the 400 gross hp/L Alfa Romeo F1 engine alive in 1951. The downside to the use in internal combustion engines was that it was a one shot deal. Everyone using castor had to drain the oil hot at the end of each race as the oil would gel when it returned to ambient temperatures.

Ed



Didn't they use castor oil in airplane engines during world war one? If so, did they drain them after every mission? Just curious.


They used it. But there was nothing to drain.

http://www.century-of-flight.net/new%20site/frames/rotary%20engines_frame.htm

There are other reasons that would have tended against the use of the rotary into more modern times and the greatest of these would be its enormous appetite for oil. The fuel was mixed with air as it was introduced through a primitive "carburettor" - usually in the tail end of the crankshaft. Via this route it made its way to the crankcase where is picked up all of the oil that was loose. When the fuel mixture was introduced to the combustion chamber it was very much a mix of fuel, air, and castor oil.

The imperfect combustion of any engine is not equalled by that of a rotary. The castor oil, being the least combustible of the two liquids, was spewed out into the atmosphere. It would be but a short time before the whole of the slipstream area of the aeroplane would be well coated with castor oil. The pilot would be soaking up oil at a fairly rapid rate as well. It is arguable that the reason for cowling the engine had as much to do with trying to control the wildly spewing oil as it was to do with the concepts of streamlining. The usual practice was to direct the oil underneath the fuselage by opening up the bottom of the cowl.

Total Loss Oil system. Centrifugal force throws lubricating oil out after it's first trip through the engine. It was usually castor oil that could be readily combined with the fuel. (The romantic-looking scarf the pilot wore was actually a towel used to wipe the slimy stuff off his goggles!)


Edited by Trajan (08/14/13 08:59 PM)
_________________________

Lack of harm is not proof of benefit.

There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates





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#3096395 - 08/15/13 01:58 PM Re: Canola Follow-up [Re: friendly_jacek]
surfstar Offline


Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4544
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: KeMBro2012

My (inconclusive) analysis, at this point, is that canola is a good (I'd like to say excellent, but won't without numbers to back it up) additive for a daily driven vehicle


Remind me again, what were the benefits? Any noise change, MPG gain, etc?


It halves your OCI.


I'm fine with experimenting, but lets see some numbers. I'm interested in that.
_________________________
2000 Civic HX 1.6L MTX ~42mpg
2005 Saturn Vue 2.2L MTX ~27mpg
--My 'new' car will be an early retirement--

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#3096487 - 08/15/13 03:55 PM Re: Canola Follow-up [Re: KeMBro2012]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3547
Loc: SE PA
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-029.html

Has data, but no pictures of engine internals, so be warned smile


Edited by Trajan (08/15/13 03:58 PM)
_________________________

Lack of harm is not proof of benefit.

There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates





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