One of the most intersting bike ever built

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Clevy

You really aren't contributing to any intelligent exchange here.


On the contrary, I think he's brought forth some compelling points. You don't have to agree with them, but they are certainly valid. I've echo'd a few of them.

Quote:
Big Cahuna has expressed his point of view to which you have jumped all over him and chastised him for.


His point of view appears to be that he has the right to be as obnoxiously loud as possible because he wants to be. That's like me arguing that I can mount the fog horn off the Queen-friggin'-Mary on my car and drive around blowing the windows out of people's cars and making their ear drums bleed because I feel like it. It doesn't work that way.

Quote:
I for one can say my v&h 2 into 1 pro pipe is loud when I get into it but if I'm easy on the throttle its sedate,and I can truly say almost daily a rev of my engine has stopped someone from pushing me over onto the sidewalk,so yes,my pipes have absolutely brought attention when it was required to avoid potential accident but my wits have saved me more.


You have an exhaust system, not straight pipes. You must have missed the part where both myself and Milk spoke about tasteful exhaust systems as opposed to straight-pipes.

Quote:
I don't think its up to you,or anyone to tell me what to do. What to wear,what pipes I should or shouldn't have and its not the people with the loud pipes ruining the hobby,its the crybaby whiners who are ruining it.


If you wake my kids at 4:00AM with a straight-piped bike 20ft from my house I have every bloody right to complain and it doesn't make me a "crybaby", it makes you an inconsiderate [censored]. This is the type of behaviour that Milk, myself and others are opposed to, but others here appear to condone, why is that? Nobody is saying "don't run a V&H or *insert other brand of aftermarket exhaust* on your bike, keep it 100% stock", we are saying that straight pipes at 125+dB are unreasonably loud and that using them as some sort of "safety crutch" is a farce, since you've demonstrated that the same thing can be accomplished by running an actual exhaust system that is, as you yourself noted, reasonably civil unless you are hard on the throttle. I'm not seeing the reason for the disconnect here

Quote:
As proven by a member or 2 in this thread. I'm happy to be in sask where I can put whatever pipes I want to on,and I only have to read the posts from the whiners,because those whiners aren't sayin much when I'm standing there,only when I leave and the whiners are sure I can't hear them complain.


Not sure what to say to this Clevy. I don't think you really get what we are complaining about and think we are attacking your right to mod your bike. We aren't. There's a point where tasteful expression ends and being an obnoxious [censored] begins. Going from having an exhaust system that sounds good when you wind it out to straight pipes that bark so loud they cause hearing damage is crossing that line. Do you follow what I'm saying?

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: Clevy

I can truly say almost daily a rev of my engine has stopped someone from pushing me over onto the sidewalk,so yes,my pipes have absolutely brought attention when it was required to avoid potential accident but my wits have saved me more.

If you find yourself being pushed onto the sidewalk on a daily basis, maybe the other motorist aren't the problem. If it was happening to me, I would reevaluate my riding.

 

[flstffxe]

Wow BITOG members have found a hotter topic to debate than oil. I'm impressed and saddened at the same time.

I find it interesting that both sides are arguing about the others sides intolerance. I grew up in the motorcycle industry, mainly aftermarket American V-twin shops and have heard this argument far too many times. There is no answer that will appease both sides.

All I have to say is I have had some rather loud motorcycles and some extremely quiet ones. I have logged well over 300K miles on bikes(I stopped keeping track around '03/'04).

Loudest was by far a 1982 Honda Ascot(500cc single, thumper) 12:1cr, cam, pnp head, Works Performance/SuperTrapp exhaust. It was in the excessively loud. This coming from some one who worked around 120"+ big twins at the time. I put about 20K road miles on this bike in this form before I sold it.

The second loudest was a shovelhead in one of its many revisions in which it had a set of upswept fishtails(technically had a baffle, but not what I would call a useful baffle). Currently this bike is much less "'60s/'70s chopper" and more FLH cruiser now(last 10 years) with a Rather quiet and mellow Supertrapp 2 into 1, some stock bikes are louder.

3rd Would have been a '99 Fatboy that had extensive engine work putting down a little over 100hp out of a 80". It had a set of staggered pipes that had a deep bass sound that would carry rather far. Incidentally I road this bike for over 10 years with no issues and no complaints from either the law or public. I sold the pipes to a friend who in 2 days had a loud pipes ticket on a otherwise bone stock bike, while going down a freeway I traveled daily.

Currently I have been spending a lot of time on a FJR. Stock exhaust and pretty much the quietest bike I have "owned". Which brings me to the loud pipes safety argument. For all the time I have spent in the industry bolting loud pipes on and tuning bikes I have to call [censored].

I feel no less safe on the FJR or the Shovelhead in current form than I did on the Honda Ascot, the shovel with the fishtails or any of the excessively loud customer bikes I have been on. Safety on a bike isn't just about making your self known to the others around you with bright color gear or loud pipes. It is more important that you take a proactive approach at defensive riding.

Loud pipes and flashy gear don't do any good if you as a rider are not aware of your own surroundings. Cruising down the highway in the blind spot of the buick being driven by a 90 year old deaf guy or a distracted 16 year old texting on the phone with loud music playing on the radio doesn't make your self be seen, you need to put your self in their field of vision.

If you can't see their eyes, they CAN'T see you even if they look. If you can see their eyes either directly or in a mirror they at least can see you should they choose to look. Pacing next to a car in a position behind the driver is only you willfully putting your self in a position to be merged into by a driver who doesn't know you are there or has forgotten you were there and fails to look.

Just because you can see a driver and they are looking in your direction doesn't mean they can see you. Most would agree that the headlight is one of the most visible things on a oncoming motorcycle in the day. The human eye has a natural blind spot about 20° to the right for the right eye and 20° to the left for the left eye. A motorcycle and its head light fit almost perfectly into this spot if the motorcycle is more then 100' away.

It takes some practice to find your natural blind spot but once you do it can bring a new awareness to you when in a car or on a motorcycle. The problem with these test is that you are already aware of the object you are trying not to see, so one naturally keeps it in their field of vision. It is a different story when you don't know some thing is there and are trying to see it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_spot_%28vision%29

http://www.doobybrain.com/2008/02/25/the-human-eye-has-a-blind-spot/

 

[flstffxe]

In any case, there are already laws in place to enforce noise requirements. If you take issue with loud pipes in your area, by all means start putting pressure on you local LEOs to start ticketing or increase the ticketing for those who have gone above and beyond the acceptable limits.

 

[BigCahuna]

And while your at it, don't forget to have the police ticket every air plane that disturbs your afternoon nap. Something needs to be done about that.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Your ears are extraordinary organs... They pick up all the
sounds around you and then translate this information into a
from your brain can understand... One of the most remarkable
things about this process is that it is completely MECHANICAL...
whereas your sense of smell, taste and vision all involve
chemical reactions, your hearing system is based solely on
physical movement... and you don't even need to be awake for it
to work... just ask your alarm clock...

Loud pipes on a fast moving bike might be life saving if it weren't
subject to the phenomenon known as the Doppler effect... What that
means is the faster your bike moves the more the sound moving
forwards is squeezed and the more the sound moving backwards is
stretched, and the greater the observed drop in pitch...

Only while your loud piped bike is sitting still do you escape
the Doppler effect...

Biker trash express great joy in putting out such an un godly level of
sound that will rattle your teeth and blow the soup right out of Granny's
bowl...

You got to love that old FTW Biker attitude... for it insures
Motorcycling is still fresh and won't crawl up its own [censored] and
suffocate but we only have ourselves to blame for the public's out cry
on unmuffled exhaust and sobriety... lets not forget the lessons of
the 70s... back then motorcycle leaders used the bully pulpit with an
effective anti noise campaign called... Less Sound = More Ground...
you see this ain't the first time the public's out cry over Motorcycle
noise levels caused negative reactions among Riders and Bikers...

Laws are sand... customs are rock... laws can be evaded and punishment
escaped... but a openly transgressed custom should bring swift
condemnation on our part... Less Sound = More Ground... because the
days of unmuffled exhaust are over...

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Mercy a running RC166... Arguably Mr.Honda's most famous race bike and
certainly the greatest sounding, the six cylinder RC166 took Mike the
Bike Hailwood to the 66 and 67 250 titles, fending of Phil Reeds
Yamaha two stroke 250cc V4 on both occasions. The 60 HP 18,000 rpm
motor was designed in 64 by genius Irimajiri-san who had also been
responsible for the 50cc twin. Hailwood loved the bike's speed and it
was good for 155mph but disliked its wayward handling. Mike used an
enlarged 297cc version to win the 67 350cc title and in the late 70s
Irimagiri scaled up the motor to create the CBX1000 Six street bike...

 

[BigCahuna]

Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Your ears are extraordinary organs... They pick up all the
sounds around you and then translate this information into a
from your brain can understand... One of the most remarkable
things about this process is that it is completely MECHANICAL...
whereas your sense of smell, taste and vision all involve
chemical reactions, your hearing system is based solely on
physical movement... and you don't even need to be awake for it
to work... just ask your alarm clock...

Loud pipes on a fast moving bike might be life saving if it weren't
subject to the phenomenon known as the Doppler effect... What that
means is the faster your bike moves the more the sound moving
forwards is squeezed and the more the sound moving backwards is
stretched, and the greater the observed drop in pitch...

Only while your loud piped bike is sitting still do you escape
the Doppler effect...

Biker trash express great joy in putting out such an un godly level of
sound that will rattle your teeth and blow the soup right out of Granny's
bowl...

You got to love that old FTW Biker attitude... for it insures
Motorcycling is still fresh and won't crawl up its own [censored] and
suffocate but we only have ourselves to blame for the public's out cry
on unmuffled exhaust and sobriety... lets not forget the lessons of
the 70s... back then motorcycle leaders used the bully pulpit with an
effective anti noise campaign called... Less Sound = More Ground...
you see this ain't the first time the public's out cry over Motorcycle
noise levels caused negative reactions among Riders and Bikers...

Laws are sand... customs are rock... laws can be evaded and punishment
escaped... but a openly transgressed custom should bring swift
condemnation on our part... Less Sound = More Ground... because the
days of unmuffled exhaust are over...

Then why is the aftermarket exhaust system business a multi million dollar affair, and stock "quiet" mufflers are give or throw aways? Exhaust systems are the first thing most bike buyers of just about every brand change. Why? they want to be heard.Does anyone think any track event be it cars or bikes would be any fun to watch if they all used stock quiet mufflers? It would be like watching highway traffic. If the guy driving next to you hears you there's less a chance he will change lanes on you, and run you off the road. It's called safety. And really, can anyone post a road where loud bikes are banned?. I mean a road where anyone with a bike would want to ride on...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna

Then why is the aftermarket exhaust system business a multi million dollar affair, and stock "quiet" mufflers are give or throw aways?


Aftermarket exhaust systems aren't straight pipes. I've said that a few times now....

Quote:
Exhaust systems are the first thing most bike buyers of just about every brand change. Why? they want to be heard.


LMAO!!! I don't think so. They want their bike to sound better. That doesn't mean ear-bleeding loud. I have a Hindle pipe on my quad that I swapped out the gutted stock muffler for (it had that insanely loud essentially straight-pipe contraption on it when I bought it) because the bike sounds good with it on. And it isn't insanely loud.

The same logic applied when I did the muffler on my gixxer. It wasn't much louder, but it sounded BETTER.

Why do you assume that because somebody puts an aftermarket exhaust on their bike that their goal is excessive noise, and pander this ridiculous assertion under the guise of "they want to be heard"?

Quote:
Does anyone think any track event be it cars or bikes would be any fun to watch if they all used stock quiet mufflers? It would be like watching highway traffic.


Actually, it is funny that you mention it. We have snowmobile races up here and shortly after the Yamaha RX1 came on the market I was at the drags and it was the sleds running. All kinds of insanely loud 2-stroke noise and then WHOOOOOSH as this almost deathly silent sled flies down the track. It surprised the socks off a lot of people. Especially the 2-stroke guys

You appear to be missing the distinction between tasteful sound and ear-drum-destroying straight-pipe loud. There's this massive range of sounds you can get from an engine, stock is on one side, straight-pipe-loud on the other, most of us have no problem with exhaust systems that are between those two extremes.

Quote:
If the guy driving next to you hears you there's less a chance he will change lanes on you, and run you off the road. It's called safety. And really, can anyone post a road where loud bikes are banned?. I mean a road where anyone with a bike would want to ride on...


No, being aware of your surroundings is called safety. Assuming that because your bike causes the heads of infants to rupture that you are somehow immune to being merged into is a fantasy. I've seen vehicles merge into the side of transport trucks. You can't argue that the transport needed to be louder so that the moron behind the wheel could have avoided it. There are oblivious people out there operating motor vehicles. You are going to encounter them. Being AWARE of them is far more likely to save your life than just driving along in your own state of oblivion, your head numb from the ruckus you are creating.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Why?


I bought an $2.500 custom titanium exhaust for Mr.RC45 not to be heard but to drop 8
pounds... I machined a custom end cap and stamped in the required 90dba to pass tech at
Laguna Seca... however Laguna is unique not only for the Cork Screw but also for the sound
monitor between turns 5&6 to enforce the rules... so as Mr.RC45 and I slammed the track
with authority I was tagged for 103dba sound and that's 13dba over the limit... the sound
lady came out of the sound booth shaking her finger at me like my mamma... busted I was
told to park it... "But hey Lady it says 90dba"

OK I'm back out in the perverted traffic with 103dba of "safety" and still the cagers are
crossing my path because either they were distracted or they wanted to kill off the source
of the noise... moot point... because I believe that it's always my fault if I get into an
accident while riding its just part of my survivors mind set... I believe that cagers don't
cause accidents... they only cause emergencies... it's up to the rider's action to avoid
the accident...

Using your survivors mind set doesn't mean the ride has to be within
the boundaries of dullness... a ride can incorporate other lessons
too... you don't want to emerge from a corner dissatisfied with your
performance... the thrill is getting it right...

The second kind of knowledge is of the ever changing contingencies of
the road you are traveling. This knowledge is unlike the other in that
it is always changing and so requires much more attention. It is not a
learned part of your behavior but consist of a cognizance of the world
external to you. This is the knowledge of that gravel off the right
side of the road, of the traffic around you, of potholes, paint
stripes, tar snakes, birds and bees, of all the other relevant
elements and hazards that you may have to react to, of that cage
approaching on the wrong side of the road. It is the complete picture
of your present environment. To lack any of this knowledge is not to
have all the critical information you need to make an important
decision. This kind of knowledge is only gained by continual
concentration and requires effort and focused attention. Regrettably,
many motorcyclist travel without this information because they are
aware exclusively of what happening in a narrow depth of field in
front of them and only in their lane. In order to be able to react
adequately, though, you need to have a complete and perpetually
developing view of you changing surroundings that includes all
features relevant to your safety. As there is not time to learn how to
ride a bike at the moment of an emergency, there is likewise usually
not enough time to look around in search of a plan of defensive
action. A panic situation occurs with a rider not just because a
difficult question is being asked, but because an answer must be found
in a very short amount of time. In order to arrive with the correct
answer quickly, you must already have all the tools and information
for making a decision. It’s not open book test. There is not time to
look the answers. If you don’t have the information, you will panic.
You can not decide not to panic, if you don’t know how to make
immediate action, you will panic automatically because there is
nothing else to do. When there is no information, there are no
choices. It’s all dumb luck.


Titanium exhaust hand crafted out of Akrapovic parts by Rob Lindeman
RC45 owner for $2,500 USD

My home made Carbon Fiber Exhaust Can...

I machined a 7075 T6 aluminum end cap... I lied and stamped 90 dba
just to fool the Laguna Seca Tech Inspector...

 

[BigCahuna]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna

Then why is the aftermarket exhaust system business a multi million dollar affair, and stock "quiet" mufflers are give or throw aways?


Aftermarket exhaust systems aren't straight pipes. I've said that a few times now....

Quote:
Exhaust systems are the first thing most bike buyers of just about every brand change. Why? they want to be heard.


LMAO!!! I don't think so. They want their bike to sound better. That doesn't mean ear-bleeding loud. I have a Hindle pipe on my quad that I swapped out the gutted stock muffler for (it had that insanely loud essentially straight-pipe contraption on it when I bought it) because the bike sounds good with it on. And it isn't insanely loud.

The same logic applied when I did the muffler on my gixxer. It wasn't much louder, but it sounded BETTER.

Why do you assume that because somebody puts an aftermarket exhaust on their bike that their goal is excessive noise, and pander this ridiculous assertion under the guise of "they want to be heard"?

Quote:
Does anyone think any track event be it cars or bikes would be any fun to watch if they all used stock quiet mufflers? It would be like watching highway traffic.


Actually, it is funny that you mention it. We have snowmobile races up here and shortly after the Yamaha RX1 came on the market I was at the drags and it was the sleds running. All kinds of insanely loud 2-stroke noise and then WHOOOOOSH as this almost deathly silent sled flies down the track. It surprised the socks off a lot of people. Especially the 2-stroke guys

You appear to be missing the distinction between tasteful sound and ear-drum-destroying straight-pipe loud. There's this massive range of sounds you can get from an engine, stock is on one side, straight-pipe-loud on the other, most of us have no problem with exhaust systems that are between those two extremes.

Quote:
If the guy driving next to you hears you there's less a chance he will change lanes on you, and run you off the road. It's called safety. And really, can anyone post a road where loud bikes are banned?. I mean a road where anyone with a bike would want to ride on...


No, being aware of your surroundings is called safety. Assuming that because your bike causes the heads of infants to rupture that you are somehow immune to being merged into is a fantasy. I've seen vehicles merge into the side of transport trucks. You can't argue that the transport needed to be louder so that the moron behind the wheel could have avoided it. There are oblivious people out there operating motor vehicles. You are going to encounter them. Being AWARE of them is far more likely to save your life than just driving along in your own state of oblivion, your head numb from the ruckus you are creating.
Where can I buy one of your crystal balls so I can tell when something bad is about to happen? Your so far off base about loud exhaust its not even funny. You have experienced instructors who have been killed by not being seen or heard. Believe it or not , not everybody wants to be whisper quiet when they ride. And if you cant deal with it, too bad. It's been that way for years and shows no sign of changing. I guess if you own a metric bike, being quiet is the best you can do for sound. Really they sound like an angry swarm of mosquito's if you try to make them loud.kinda like those import cars with the beer can mufflers they put on them. All bad sound with no go.,,

 

[Mik]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
All bad sound with no go.,,


Hey, you just described a Hardley, lol (or are you one of the "lucky" ones who spent thousands of dollars to get it over that magical 50 hp mark? lol)

Overkill: quit wasting your energy (pretty well established that he's impervious to logic, common sense, and others' right to relative quietness), it's obvious poser-man (like his fellow pipe-tards)is only interested in getting any attention he can (such a sad and pitiful existence....), regardless of its impact on others.... just be grateful he doesn't live in your town (or country for that matter, I know I am)

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Where can I buy one of your crystal balls so I can tell when something bad is about to happen? Your so far off base about loud exhaust its not even funny. You have experienced instructors who have been killed by not being seen or heard. Believe it or not , not everybody wants to be whisper quiet when they ride.


Are you being intentionally dense? Where did I say whisper quiet? I CLEARLY stated NUMEROUS times that my aversion is to the straight-piped bikes that are louder than a landing freakin' jet-liner, not somebody with a nice aftermarket exhaust. In fact I gave examples of two aftermarket setups on my own freakin' bikes!!!!

Quote:
And if you cant deal with it, too bad.


Yeah, you'll just continue to slam straight pipes down our throats as the *ONLY* option, pandered under the guise of "safety" until you have nowhere to ride anymore. Bravo!

You sound like the captain of the Titanic. "the Iceberg will move". Until of course it doesn't.

Quote:
It's been that way for years and shows no sign of changing. I guess if you own a metric bike, being quiet is the best you can do for sound. Really they sound like an angry swarm of mosquito's if you try to make them loud.kinda like those import cars with the beer can mufflers they put on them. All bad sound with no go.,,


Yeah, because bikes like the Yamaha V-Max, old Honda V65, Hyabusa, R1....etc are all really slow compared to a big straight-piped "hog" right? Are you for real dude?

I like all kinds of bikes, from BMW, Ducati, Buell, Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki...etc Heck, I even like some Harley's. But when somebody spouts off at the mouth that the only way to be safe is to ride around with 125+dB straight pipes and then slams every other bike as being rice, they are a bike bigot.

I am simply flabbergasted that you are unable to see the middle ground here. And that you've stooped to the level of slamming other people's rides because of it. You've lowered my level of respect for everything you represent with your head-in-the-sand attitude. Your unwillingness to even consider the other side of this is in and of itself a tragedy.

 

[Mik]

Just think of the irony when he, all smug from the false sense of confidence/security provided by the infernal racket delivered by his "assembled in the USA" 40+ hp posercycle, gets rubbed off the road by one of : i) deaf driver ii) one whose stereo is louder than his Hardley iii) someone truly distracted by some personal matter iv) someone texting v) someone startled by the infernal noise of his mobile paint-mixer (which cause him to swerve right into him, lol) or, increasingly possible, vi) a road rager who has had his fill with getting his ear drums shattered by yet another inconsiderate open-pipe zealot.....

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Then why is the aftermarket exhaust system business a multi million dollar affair, and stock "quiet" mufflers are give or throw aways? Exhaust systems are the first thing most bike buyers of just about every brand change. Why? they want to be heard.Does anyone think any track event be it cars or bikes would be any fun to watch if they all used stock quiet mufflers? It would be like watching highway traffic. If the guy driving next to you hears you there's less a chance he will change lanes on you, and run you off the road. It's called safety. And really, can anyone post a road where loud bikes are banned?. I mean a road where anyone with a bike would want to ride on...

I already posted the link where Chicago has considered banning bikes from Sky Line Dr. Here's a link from a Harley Davidson dealer talking about the National Parks system wanting to ban bikes. I love riding in the National Park system.
http://social.longhornhd.com/possible-motorcycle-ban-in-national-parks/

About quiet race cars, I find the Audi diesels fascinating. I can barely hear them coming.

Are loud pipes really safer? Here's a note from the AMA. I think I trust them when it comes to motorcycles.
http://motorcyclesafetynews.com/?p=878

Cahuna, Lets pretend that you and I are neighbors. We live on a very busy street, and I have a few kids. For safety, I would put a fence around my yard, and install flashing lights, and sirens so cars and trucks didn't hit my kids. I assume you'd be ok with that? It is after all, for safety.

If loud pipes are safer, How unsafe are electric bikes?

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Mr.Honda's RC166 which is the subject of this thread sported 6 straight pipes that were loud enough to give following riders a bad headache...

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
And while your at it, don't forget to have the police ticket every air plane that disturbs your afternoon nap. Something needs to be done about that.

You clearly underestimate the ignorance of the genreal population, and the willingness of elected officials to listen. Here's a list of aircraft that are banned from the Santa Monica Airport because they're to loud.

http://www.smgov.net/Content.aspx?id=8697

Are you so arrogant to think that elected official wouldn't ban certain motorcycles if enough people complain?

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
....Don't get your skirt in a uproar because your scared of the big bad loud motorcycle. I've backed up my statements with articles available to anyone interested enough to look for them. Crying about it may be they way the do it in Canada I don't know, but try to open your narrow minds. Lots of facts here, where's your?.....

I've also backed my argument up with articles from very reputable sources. Harley dealers, the AMA, and other motorcycle magazines. Ignoring logic might be the way they do it in Jersey, or maybe ignorance is bliss? Take your own advice, and open your mind........

 

[Mik]

Here is one bike which, according to "Cahunian" logic, should be banned:

http://rideapart.com/2013/08/rideapart-review-2014-mission-rs/

Can imagine how UNSAFE this thing is? I mean, it is unnervingly quiet..... I dare say to even contemplate riding an electric bike, one would have to actually learn to ride properly, and be alert!!!!! Now that is insane! Who in their right mind wnats to do that?????? Come on people, get with the program!!!!!! I hope the govt. steps in and bans this thing before people get hurt! We all know quiet is dangerous, how irresponsible of the folks at Mission to even think of marketing such a vehicle!!!! Come on Cahuna, time to get a petition going, pronto!!!!!

 

[Mik]

Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
....Don't get your skirt in a uproar because your scared of the big bad loud motorcycle. I've backed up my statements with articles available to anyone interested enough to look for them. Crying about it may be they way the do it in Canada I don't know, but try to open your narrow minds. Lots of facts here, where's your?.....

I've also backed my argument up with articles from very reputable sources. Harley dealers, the AMA, and other motorcycle magazines. Ignoring logic might be the way they do it in Jersey, or maybe ignorance is bliss? Take your own advice, and open your mind........


I didn't realise Ohio was part of Canada....lol