My Kreen test.

[Bodensee]

I would like to comment here, but my comment is for several subiects in adds section. First is for Mystic and others testing oil or adds for effect. I think almost all oils with a good amount of Calcium based detergents and dispersants, or Magnesium based detergents will be cleaning an engine at a similar rate. What matters more is how the viscosity of the oil allows fast flow rates and how fresh the oil is. Any of the good HDEO, HM or expensive synthetics will clean away sludge if you keep OCI short.
I think cleaning light varnish is silly idea, only heavy varnish from too high temperature or bad oil in turbo feed lines is big problem. If you clean all varnish from old engine I think you cause corrosion and oil leaks risk to increase. Mystic is right that part anyway.
Tests are fun but bottom end or turbo feed much more important for pictures and I don't understand why Bitogers pay any attention to adverstising, because when you compare cleaner adds you will have a different result for different engines and even for same engines their different block condition will give a different result. The temperature the engine is at during test and actual kinematic viscosity will change result.
Wear factrs go up when using lots of detergent or solvent in big way sometimes. This is because old AW and EP layers dissolved faster than deposited with new oil.
I have got rid of sludge with some engines just by using cheap oil on offer and changing it when black, which for bad engine is not long.
No real cause for adds to get rid of sludge and trying to get rid varnish could be big mistake I think.

 

[Mystic]

If the varnish is not causing any problems with oil flow or anything like that I think we should not worry that much about it. But I would like to be able to get the sludge out of a dirty engine.

From the looks of this testing it looks like Kreen might be a good product to use for a older vehicle with a dirty engine. It might clean somewhat faster than MMO and Kreen is not too expensive. In Artem's engine the Kreen did not clean very well but I think that he has one of those sludge monster Toyota engines in his car. There is heavy varnish in that engine also but like you say as long as the engine is running well maybe it does not matter much.

If an engine is too dirty maybe the only sure way to get it clean is to do some physical cleaning. If I owned one of the sludge prone engines I think I would sell a car like that.

 

[Trav]

Varnish IMHO falls into two categories (no not static or dynamic LOL).
The varnish stain on non moving parts is not a major issue although IMO it could be a good surface for sludge to begin to form on but nothing critical.

The other would be where it is in moving parts like cam phasers, hydraulic lifters/lash adjusters, hydraulic cam/timing chain tensioners, oil pump pressure relief valves, etc.
If any of these stick with varnish it can cause noise and excess wear and tear and should be taken care of.

The problem is how do you know going by only what you can see under the cover or noise from a lifter etc?
Truth is you don't unless you pull it apart but there are some clues.
Light ticking or intermittent noise is a good sign of sticking and may be helped with a solvent type cleaner.

Loud ticking may mean the lifter/adjuster or tensioner is totally collapsed and will probably need mechanical repair.
If one treatment doesn't cure it or make any difference then don't continue using it, chances are it wont get any better.

If used properly these product can help but abuse is all to common and can damage their engines. Notice Berrymans no longer recommends Chemtool for use in the oil?
If used as directed it was fine and did a bang up job safely but people were driving around with this stuff and wiping the bearings out.

 

[Mystic]

Well, one good thing however-a lot of the critical parts are lubricated by oil under pressure and the Kreen would be carried with the oil to those parts. The less important areas like surface areas on the valve covers and the oil pan surface get slash lubrication to a considerable extent. And a person could remove those parts and clean them off of the engine and install new seals.

 

[demarpaint]

Trav- I think your pretty much spot on with your comments.

Varnish might be harmless, but in some instances it can also act like a primer or base coat for sludge to form on. The comments you made about a slight tick might be the signal for those people who can't see inside their engine because of how it is designed that something is going on. If you hear a slight tick things might not be as clean as they should be, and maybe a follow up action is needed. Food for thought that's all.

 

[demarpaint]

Today is one of those days so I thought I'd take some pics and update this thread. It has been about 11,500 miles since I added Kreen for the first time. It has been 6,700 miles Kreen free. Each time I look the engine is getting a little cleaner. Once again the photos aren't showing the results as well as the naked eye. My plans are to add MMO at about 1500 miles before I dump my winter fill probably sometime in March or April 2014, although I might run MMO for the entire winter OCI. It all depends. Stay tuned.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint

As a side note I'm very disappointed in how 3,000 dino OCI's did in that engine.


How long would it take for you father to do those 3,000 miles? You would think that one very conservative OCI.

Thanks for the update BTW.

 

[KCJeep]

The cross hatched area looks quite a bit cleaner than the very first pic you posted in '12.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

As a side note I'm very disappointed in how 3,000 dino OCI's did in that engine.


How long would it take for you father to do those 3,000 miles? You would think that one very conservative OCI.

Thanks for the update BTW.


My father probably averaged about 800 miles a month of mixed driving. We are currently doing about 1250 miles a month of mixed driving with it.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
The cross hatched area looks quite a bit cleaner than the very first pic you posted in '12.


Yes that area is cleaner. What really is cleaning up, and no matter how hard I try to position the camera I can't get a good shot of is the rockers and valve springs. The improvement there is night and day when you actually look at those areas.

 

[Finz]

Rec'd my package of Kreen today and am especially anxious to throw this in my daughter's '98 accord

Per my Fuel Additive discussion, I have a fill of Penzoil HM 10W-40 (3 .5 qts) and 1 qt MMO in the sump with about 350 miles driven

I'm going to adhere to OCI of 3,000 miles going forward

Quick recap on the 4-cylinder Accord:

* Purchased '09 with 150,000 on the odometer - not 100% certain of prior maintenance
* 187,650 miles
* Mostly driven on easy short-hops with occasional 140 mile highway trips - maybe twice monthly
* Car had a ticking at start-up (like a sewing machine) that would never go away - it DID lessen to a degree when warmed up
* Car has had a regular OCI with filter (Fram Tough Guard) every 5,000 miles using M1 5W-30
* Replaced radiator at 175k miles - not sure how bad the overheating ever got but, as of today, no cooling troubles at all.
* Car has been losing a qt of oil every 1,000 miles for about a year - since about 175k miles.. no leaks anywhere and no smoke out of the exhaust. Oil just goes away.
* Last oil change, 187,300, new filter (Fram Tough Guard) and Penzoil HM 10W-40.. I jumped to 10W-40 in an effort to negate the oil loss
* The ticking has pretty much gone away and been replaced with a more pronounced knocking. No knock at start-up but after a minute or 3, gets somewhat louder. Doesn't seem to diminish with a warmer engine and never gets really loud - but it's there
* My feeling is that the knocking might be a result of the heavier 10W-40 oil...
* 50 miles ago, I added 1 qt of MMO. The MMO diluted the oil somewhat but the knocking is still there and it's driving me nuts

1. Do you think it would be a tragic mistake to add the Kreens to the oil now on top of the MMO which is only 50 miles old?

2. I am anxious to try a piston soak but still have a mostly full tank of gas with a Lucas UCL and MMO mixture still in there. Here, too, am I asking for trouble?

I'm a little pressed for time as this is my daughter's car and have full access to it for only another couple of weeks. So if it seems like I'm rushing, I am

Some pics thru the oil fill:

I scratched some varnish with my fingernail to check depth

 

[steve20]

anyone remember the dosing on B-12 when added to oil?
1/2 can to 5 quarts and a 5 min idle then drain is what i remember, but not sure

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Finz



1. Do you think it would be a tragic mistake to add the Kreens to the oil now on top of the MMO which is only 50 miles old?

2. I am anxious to try a piston soak but still have a mostly full tank of gas with a Lucas UCL and MMO mixture still in there. Here, too, am I asking for trouble?

I'm a little pressed for time as this is my daughter's car and have full access to it for only another couple of weeks. So if it seems like I'm rushing, I am

Some pics thru the oil fill:

I scratched some varnish with my fingernail to check depth

1. I would not use both products at the same time! Finish up with the MMO first, or drain the oil and start from scratch, which would be a waste of money and oil.

2. That should have no impact on a piston soak, however I'd do a piston soak at the end of the OCI right before I planned on changing the oil.

As a side note for the miles the engine doesn't look bad at all. It's a Honda and ticking it might need a valve adjustment in which case the Kreen or MMO is not going to help.

 

[KCJeep]

That is nothing Finz just let what you've done play out and keep it on a decent OCI schedule thereafter.

The knocking can be from oil too thick though, and a HM 10w40 is gonna be thick. My Jeep will knock even when warmed up if I go too thick. When it happened to me with Delo 15w40 a whole quart of MMO thinned it enough I ran it the whole OCI without issue. Not sure you'd want to go that route with your smaller crankcase. You might want to change to something closer to spec and "fahgeddaboudit".

 

[Finz]

Thanks KCJeep

My hope is that the 10W-40 HM is too thick even after adding the MMO so I picked up a jug of Penzoil 5W-30 HM and will replace it - probably in the next hour or 2 (thank God for Walmart's cheap prices!)

Going to start another thread 98 Accord Kreen Test as I feel badly about hijacking demarpaint's deal here (even though he said he was cool with it good guy that he is)

Took some snazzy pics with the valve cover off and I think the guts look A-OK but I'm on a mission and there's no turning back...

Thanks again