Central A/C question kinda long post

[raaizin]

As I mentioned in earlier post I am having central a/c problems. They have a motor for me and want $850 to install new motor. They part costs about 325 on amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CXZACDU?tag=ree12-20. I dont have a puller for the fan so I really dont mind having them do it even though the price is a bit high. I live in Central Jersey, Manalapan/Marlboro for those who know the area and most things seem priced more than they should. I do feel some of these guys "size you up" before they give you a price.

The unit I have is 19 years old, brand is Comfortmaker. It has a scroll compressor is 13 SEER and has served me well with no maintanence since new. The owner called and said I should consider replacing the unit. How long should I expect to this unit to operate. I run it From May 1- Sept 30 each year or five months a year. I am already comitted to replacing the motor and considering replacing the unit in a couple of years when I can get a couple of bids and not pressed to get the a/c running. In this area I have heard from neighbors that it cost aprrox about 8k to replace a/c and heat system with the range being 6K-12K.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to give a little history for the questions

1) How long do these systems typically last?
2) What is typical SEER of a new efficient unit, not the cheapest unit available.
3)Out of curiosity what would it cost to replace in your area and where do you live.
4) Would you consider just replacing the condensor only(whole outside unit)and leaving my current coil/heater.

Thanks for all responses in advance.

Ray

 

[Fleetmon]

I don't have answers to most of your questions but for what it's worth:

I've never had an issue removing the fan assembly from a motor shaft. If it's stubborn though you could probably get a small machine shop do it for you for a nominal fee.

The price seems awfully high for a fan motor....maybe it's multiple speed? If it's a single-speed motor, Grainger (suggested earlier from another) would probably be half of the Amazon cost.

I take it this is a straight ac condensor and NOT a heat pump? If just a condensor, I would fix what I have and begin shopping a couple of years (2-3) down the road. A good gentle cleaning of the coil (from inside to out) would probably be a good idea as well as the refrigerant level checked while it's still hot. Scroll compressors can last a LONG time.

Most times, you'll need the condensor unit to match the inside unit, i.e. the SEER level should match for the most efficient operation.....can you still get a 13-SEER unit?

I'm sure others will chime in soon....these are just my opinions and what I would do. Good luck with your decision!

 

[Tdbo]

If you have a scroll compressor, that usually is a pretty good unit.
However at 19 years, you are probably pushing the end of its life cycle.
I would go ahead and replace the motor and start looking at units AT YOUR LEISURE instead of being held captive by one company whose owner is trying to sell you another unit.
I would try to get bids at times of the year that are non peak where they may be looking for work. I would also advise you to start doing your homework on what makes/models are good values. Best of luck, I just had to have a coil replacement on a 10 year old Ruud. Haven't seen the bill on that yet.
To answer your question, I think 13 SEER units are being phased out and the new minimum will be 15.

 

[dishdude]

If the furnace is 19 years old, it's probably about time to consider replacing it too.

I'd only replace them if I were staying in the home long term.

 

[Fleetmon]

and I still wouldn't replace either at this time.....repair what you have and purchase another system on YOUR terms and at your convenience.

As I stated previous, a good cleaning will only help (coils get VERY dirty since so much air passes through them - dirt, grass clippings, bugs, etc - Simple Green is a pretty effective cleaner)and a refrigerant check wouldn't hurt either. If you choose to have some one repair the unit; Tip your service guy....offer him a cold bottle of water....he'll take care of you!

 

[raaizin]

Originally Posted By: Fleetmon
and I still wouldn't replace either at this time.....repair what you have and purchase another system on YOUR terms and at your convenience.

As I stated previous, a good cleaning will only help (coils get VERY dirty since so much air passes through them - dirt, grass clippings, bugs, etc - Simple Green is a pretty effective cleaner)and a refrigerant check wouldn't hurt either. If you choose to have some one repair the unit; Tip your service guy....offer him a cold bottle of water....he'll take care of you!



You have given some very good advice. When the guy checked freon, he said it was full, never touched in 19 years. It has a sight glass I was told if I see bubbles the freon is low. I check it every so often and dont see bubbles while running, a couple of bubbles when it first starts up occasionally. We always tip anyone before they begin work and buy them lunch on a big job like an install. Funny story our garbage man insists bringing my empty pails up my driveway(75 feet) I had to tell him it wasnt necessary I felt bad him doing it in the heat. So you see I do try to treat people right.

I agree about looking at my coveinience, I dont like the company I chose to do a replacementas I feel he is going for the fear factor telling me how they are fazing out r-12 and I wont get any more in the future. When I asked when this would happen he said 2020, so not an immediate concern. He said some other things which tried to prey on peoples fears. Its not like its an airplane engine that if it quits you have a REAL proplem. Just a minor discomfort. I probably wont be using him for the replacement, he just happens to be well known in the area and came out quickly when unit died on the weekend. Thanks for your info.

Ray

 

[InhalingBullets]

I assume this motor is for the blower unit inside the house? If so you shouldn't need a puller of any kind to pull the fan blade off the motor shaft. Most of them are held on by a single set screw. Depending on your setup you would need to pull the squirrel cage out and remove the motor from the belly band and replace. More than likely the motor does not need to be that exact brand. There are several company's that make replacements for that motor and it would be just a matter of matching them up, which Grainger could do for you. I just replaced mine last September and saved $600.

 

[dishdude]

It's the motor for the condenser fan.

 

[hemitom]

1) from may to sept your system if sized correctly should last 20 yrs with no problem.
2) Anywhere from 13 to mid 20 seer, 13 being slowly phased out
3) depending on size for a 13 seer with new matching coil $2500 and up.
4 ) No way would i change a 19 yr. old condenser and not change the coil.

 

[rshaw125]

I have a condenser (outside ) unit installed in a rental condo that is 35 years old. it has had a few parts over the years but is still cooling. Yours could last another 10 years easy.
The fan motor I would replace myself. Always have a spare contactor and capacitor on hand. Cheap on ebay.

 

[DBMaster]

OK, some misconceptions to clear up. The listing on Amazon says it's a two speed motor. They will be more expensive than single speed due to the internal speed control electronics. The price does seem kind of high to me. Depending upon where you live you may be able to get a better deal at a Lennox Parts Plus store. They carry a "First Choice" brand line of parts that are more generic to fit a variety of brands. I should know. I buy them from the manufacturer. R-22 is what was used in residential A/C units until the last few years. It is in the process of being phased out but is still readily available, though more expensive than it used to be. I buy that, too. I buy thousands of pounds of the stuff every month from DuPont. So, yes, it is being "phased out," but will be available until long after your system is dead and recycled as scrap. Plus, there are replacements out there for it, just as there are for R-12 in cars.

Replacing a condenser motor is fairly easy and is not an abnormal wear item at all. Even if it only gets you a couple or three more years out of the unit I still believe it to be a worthwhile expense.

Finally, I agree that if you replace the entire condenser unit and the evaporator coil is similarly old you should replace it while the system is open.

I should state that I purchase repair and maintenance parts for Lennox residential so I get a pretty good feel for what people out in the field are replacing on their systems.

 

[bullwinkle]

I just replaced my Lennox piston style compressor (Copeland CR34/R-22 refrigerant) on my outdoor condensing unit at 16 years old, coil still nearly perfect, still on original condenser fan motor. You've likely got a lot of life left in yours!

 

[SrDriver]

If it were mine I would first make sure that there is no power to the outside unit then remove the motor with the blade on it being careful.

Call around first and find a electric motor shop. Chances are they can repair it at a fraction of the cost of the new one.

If you must replace with a new unit check with some local HVAC supply shops and see what they have.

As far as getting the blade off, I have many times took some fine sandpaper and cleaned up the shaft, loosened the nut, used WD40, then used a wrench to hold the shaft and worked the blade back and forth to get it off.

If that don't work, cut the shaft off and drive the old shaft out with a drift punch.

Another option is buy the part and get an HVAC mechanic that moonlights to do it at far lest cost.

 

[Jarlaxle]

My uncle had to put a compressor fan in his central A/C (IIRC, a Carrier) last year...otherwise, it's never been opened. It was installed around 1982.

For when it DOES need work, he has a big tank of R-22 in the garage.

 

[guyonearth]

They must see guys like you coming. You can buy the entire external unit for $850 if you shop around. There's no need to replace the interior parts unless you want a new R410 unit. $6-8K? Are you kidding? What are they, gold plated?

 

[DBMaster]

Gentlemen, people these days get sold with gimmicks like rebates and electricity savings. While it is true that a newer, efficient system may use only half the electricity of your current system you have to do the payback analysis. In many cases, fixing the old system is probably the best option. What you want to know is how long will it take the electricity savings to pay for the cost of the system. If you HAVE TO replace the system that question is moot, but I can tell you that it will take decades for the savings in electricity to pay for a new system.

I base my analysis on my billing here in North Texas. I only exceed 1,000kWh per month four months out of the year. I keep my house 71-72 degrees and my highest bill (with the current retail electricity contract I have) is around $250. My winter bills (I have gas heat) are around $50.

So let's say, for argument's sake, that I could reduce my bills by $125 for four months each year. That's $500/year. At that rate it would take a very long time to cover the cost of a new system.

 

[sleddriver]

I posted this in your other thread. It's still applicable here:
Quote:
I had to replace my condensor fan motor in Dec. 2011. Having served for 21 yrs., it was due. I also checked the motor caps, both indoor & outdoor, and they were low. I bought a new motor at WW Grainger and replaced it myself. Some DVM's (digital volt meters) include a capacitance meter so you can check them yourself.

I bought new caps from a shop specializing in reworking commercial motors. They carry GE caps. GE moved this division to Mexico many years ago however, I trusted these more than the others from China.


A/C is a real lucrative business. Thinking of getting a license myself, as I've taken care of my system over its life.

I'm willing to bet any techs that come to your house are working on commission, thus they more they sell, the more they earn. Any system older than 8yrs., they might put the fear of God in you so you'll upgrade.

Further the utilities are heavily subsidizing replacing older units, urge high SEER ratings, dual speed, etc. etc. etc. I've heard from friends they paid about $3000/ton. That's nuts. As DB said, it'll take a looonnnnng time to break even at that rate.

I had one guy promise he could cut my bills in half, without even asking what they were, system size, weather exposure, type of house, how many inside, etc. This is evidence his only focus is sell, sell, sell.

My last bill, in Tx, was $110. Used a bit over 1000kWhrs (or 1MWhr). That's on a now 23yr. old system running R22. I have a sight glass to keep an eye on refrigerant level.

It now delivers more cold air than it ever has because I did a load calculation a few years back and designed & installed a new duct system. The old one was restricted not only on supply but return. Spending $10,000 on a new unit wouldn't have fixed the restricted duct system, nor given me cooler air either. You have to look at it like a system.

The performance of your unit is only as good as your duct system.

OK...end of that rant.

I'd call WW Grainger, give them your motors model number and see how much they'd charge for a new one. I didn't have too much trouble separating the motor from the fan blade: A little ATF soak and a bit of prying. The motor was about $120, if I remember.

Keep your coils clean, seal up the return air, don't use a restrictive air filter, clean the squirrel cage, and remove any leaves from your outdoor unit on a regular basis. It'll last a long time. Here in Central Tx we live in A/C....even in Nov! We only have two seasons here: Summer & January.

 

[DBMaster]

^This is very interesting to me. I added additional return air and ducting to my unit and the plenum was replaced when my house was about four years old. The combination of those two things improved the performance of the A/C very significantly. I keep mine set at 71-72, as I said, so my summer usage can get as high as 2,000-2,100 kWh two months out of the year. I had to replace the condenser unit at nine years because it was a hunk of junk and the compressor died. I have an eight year old condenser, thirteen year old evap coil, and 17 year old furnace. I partially disassemble the condenser once a year to thoroughly clean the coil. I created access to my evap coil and check/vacuum it in the winter when it's not wet. I used decent filters and sealed around them in the grills so that coil stays clean. I know from industry experience that new systems are the bread and butter of the business. So, keep yours repaired as long as you can.

 

[DBMaster]

Oh, and just a general tip. A tech instructor at my company told me that leaving the blower running continuously will actually lengthen the life of both it and its capacitor. I personally haven't noticed any significant change in the electric bill as the blower uses very little juice compared to the compressor. A nice side benefit is that you get less dust settling on things and the air is constantly circulating across filters.

 

[Fleetmon]

Good luck on the repair and I hope you're cool in no time. Households such as yours that take care of their service help are generally awarded with the tech going that little extra step forward.....much like your trash cans being returned to their spot. Great job on your part to reap that benefit and kudos to whomever is doing it!